Megaera and raid DPS assistance.

[crimsonhead]

Hello everyone!

I hope everyone is doing well this morning. I have a couple questions / concerns that I wanted to bring to you guys in hopes you can prove my sanity and / or my claim that I'm not going crazy.

My guild is currently running ToT, we have players geared between iLvl 490 - 515. I fall around iLvl 512. We can clear up to Tortos no problem, but it seems Megaera is our bane. Now, I know the first question that would be asked is "Is it a tanking issue or healing issue"? The answer to that is most definitely a no. A strong resounding no in fact. Our healers and tanks are great, they do an amazing job and really have nothing to do with this. It's not acid rain or cinders (we mix up how we deal with them, but that's not what the point of this thread is). The problem is, of course, dps.

My mage guildie and I, along with our warrior do amazing dps. Her and I typically trade top spots on the meters with sometimes the spriest getting up high but then falling lower. We float between 115k - 130k depending on how we do things but regardless our DPS is solid.

What I'm concerned about (slightly contrary to what I said before) are our other 3 DPS. That same shadow priest, our elemental shaman and our new hunter.

Take a look at these WoL and you can see what I mean:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...um/damageDone/ - This report is our 15 wipes on Magaera

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...um/damageDone/ - This report is the first 3 bosses one shotted, 4 attempts (and then kill) on Tortos and than 3 wipes on Magaera.

Now, our shadowpriest is the 2nd most geared DPS we have at 513, our mage is 514 and I'm 512. This is the first thing I want to address. She is geared as hell, CAN do good dps but for some reason, doesn't. When I brought the issue up the first time we were wiping on Tortos and I asked our GM if there was any way we could up her DPS. I didn't realize that her and my GM sit next to each other when they raid, so she saw my tell and whispered me and went on this long diatribe how spriests aren't good on Tortos and movement fights, etc.

I bit it, and agreed that maybe it's "just the fight". However, looking at the logs, you can see that her iLvl is not indicative of her DPS. A 513 iLvl should not be doing such low DPS. Am I off base here? Is this really how it's supposed to be? If what she was saying about Tortos is true, why is her dps below mine on Jin and Horridon. I know, I'm a warlock, rules apply a little differently to me but maybe I am wearing rose colored glasses and am failing to see that this is just the way it is.

This is one of the primary reasons we are wiping on Magaera, the others are our other dps. Last night we had our Shaman (ele) and a new hunter. Both of them were doing under 70k the entire fight. Our ele sham is iLvl 500 and our hunter is 490. Midway through the night our spriest left and our shaman jumped in.

I really don't know what to do. I have no power of course to change the DPS, our guild just xferred servers so we don't have some of the top dps of our last server. Further, our GM and RL fail to recognize this as an issue. I really am stumped. The part that really gets me is that these dps joke around and shit during the fight when they should be focusing.

In Summation *TL : DR*

Me (warlock) 512 iLvl - Great DPS
Mage - 514 iLvl - Great DPS
Spriest - 513 iLvl - Subpar - OK dps (falls during mid fight)
Shaman - 500 iLvl - Subpar DPS
Hunter - 490 iLvl - Subpar DPS

How do I bring this forward as a concern to my GM and co without sounding snobby or snooty. I don't want to login 3 times a week for 3 hours to continually wipe on shit I know we can beat if we had the DPS.

Thanks for reading to all who did, have a great one!

[Tripping]

When the Leader comes online, raise your concerns, give reasons behind it, and say how you want them to improve. There is no point staying with a guild if they won't progress at the level of the majority of the members (As you say, your tanks, healers and a couple of DPS are good). From what I see, they arnt the friendliest bunch of people, so I assume you have no ties with them. If this is the case, say you want it sorted or you will leave. Simple as that. There are plenty of decent guilds looking to fill their roster right now (on my server at least) and you have logs to prove yourself as a player.
If there are people you dont want to leave there, or are tied to, speak to them in whispers. Tell them what you think, and raise a revolution. The Vox Populi will prevail!

[Confucius]

it seems that the dk tank is really slacking as well. I mean, 30-40k dps, that is unacceptable

[kamuimac]

well my first question would be which strat u take for head order kill - any maybe adjust the kill order to ur team - cause most of people fail here by trying to bruteforce it GRGRGRG :/

And tbh try to be a bit real, spriest dps could be a lil higher but ur lookign from a lock perspective :/ (dont want to start flame or anything but all know how strong locks are atm thats all im saying) 90k dps like she did should be more then enough if u have like 1-2 blue heads kill to kill order :/ no idea why u picked on her not on hunter/shammy mostly cause they are the ones who shoudl be doin more dps with that gear lvls:/

[Aertea]

Hunter's aren't that great on Magera, but yours in particular is not playing well. I looked at this in particular (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...=11095&e=11449) It was one of your longer attempts, snipped to right before the hunter died.

Magera can be an odd report to read logs from, it likes to not properly track dot uptime and such, but it seems like there are mechanical problems.

45% Uptime on Serpent Sting (Should be 90%+).
53% Uptime on Black Arrow (Should be 70-80%, but the timing of the heads dying can screw with this).
I don't even see a 5th tier talent being used, ever (A Murder of Crows, Lynx Rush, Blink Strike). AMOC is optimal and should be 5-6% overall damage.
I'm also not seeing Rapid Fire/Stampede ever being used. 2 of our largest CDs.

They should at least be in the upper 70s at 490, probably low 80s. Pets can be buggy on Magera, which does hold our numbers back a bit.

[Deleted]

This is just rough estimate but if your tanks don't get 4 stacks of breath on them you have enough dps to kill Meg. We were failing with GRGRGRG tactic so we switched to BRBRBRB tactic and killed Meg.

[Musta Kyy]

40-60k dps is really low for a ilvl 490 hunter and ilvl 500 shaman, they could pretty much double their dps easily by just checking the basics from icy veins for example.

[kenn9530]

here is our first kill http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5966&e=6470

your bottom 3 dps really need to improve and at the very least push 80k, your disc priest is also slacking as you can use Spirit Shell every rampage and that will help top the raid off before acid bombs.

Our tacts was RGRGRBG which works good if you have a good healing setup. Basically you need the 3 dps to pull their own weight which will reduce tank damage by killing heads faster.

Your healing looks ok but the Priest can make better use of Spirit shell every rampage.

[Slak]

I don't even know where to be being. In terms of progression we are only a little bit ahead of you, we are mediocre at best, definitely no elitists here. This was only our 3rd week on meg, first week we got carried by a OP healer, that two weeks took 7 and 6 tries to get it right. Our kill tuesday was 7:52:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...=10274&e=10746

We usually had 3 stacks of breath but were getting to a point where if the dps went hard they would just hit 2. Looking at your longest pull at 9:13:

I will start with the dk tank since that's what I play. I am fully geared for mitigation, I main tank and am the dmg soaker while our feral is more the dps tank. I still pulled 63k while raid leading, called out healing cds and otherwise yelling at people. Your tank pulled 39k... I would bet he has problems with threat, we have a 3 button rotation + diseases when blood boil procs, he is using 2, I would love to know where his runic power goes considering he only used 3 rune strikes, I used 116... In over 9 min he had 280 hits, In under 8 min I had 395... basically he does a whole lot of nothing. oh and if he complains he is using more cds, he took a full 20k dps more dmg than I did. I took 30 mil, he took 45 mil. He is a pinata and needs to learn his rotation. Tank dps with vengeance is huge this tier. At 60k, I am low compared to what i could do, at 40k he is a liability, especially with the amount of dmg he is tanking.

Then just compare the logs, your hunter is brutal as already reported, ours pulled more than double and has only been a hunter since the start of this tier. Spriests are not going to top the meters this tier, but yours should be higher, movement does kill their dps.

I know you say your tanks aren't the problem but we run the same comp and our tanks pull 40k more dps, considering we are 100k dps more than you, that is a big chunk right there. Your top 3 dps actually pull more than we do, the bottom feeders are holding you back, but you already knew that... Hopefully your raid leader can see this and realize it.

[Caribald]

Hunter has bad Black Arrow and Serpent Sting uptime from what I can see, and needs a Deterrence cancelaura macro. He has cast Deterrence 40 times on your 15 attempts, and the Deterrence buff has according to logs been up for 200.1 seconds. That means it's been up for all 5 seconds EVERY time, on average 2.666 times during each attempt. Tell him to put /cancelaura Deterrence in his Kill Shot macro.

Otherwise I'm not really good at log analysis, there might be a lot else wrong with his dps / shot prio etc., but for me, it's hard to tell from just a log.

[Deleted]

They need to read up about their classes. As someone said, Icyveins is a good idea.

The hunter has one (!) enchant, missing seven.
The shaman is almost 3% over the hit cap and hasn't reforged a single item to haste, but is reforging primarily to crit instead (Which is the worst stat for an elemental shaman). This leads me to believe he's resto MS, but if he's recruited as Elemental, he should redo his reforges.

Apart from that, they're just doing things wrong. Tell them to read up on their classes, or watches kill videos from their classes' PoV. If they get angry at you for pointing out their low DPS, they honestly isn't worth it - Your time shouldn't be wasted because they're too lazy to do their stuff properly.

[Mebhy]

Your Shadow Priest is a bit low on your earlier encounters. Maybe it's something as simple as not multi-doting on Horridon or Tortos(I didn't look who is kicking), but on other encounters she looks alright. She does well enough DPS on Meg, she just has to not stand in the Acid Bomb. The one issue I'm seeing again and again is that you are losing someone from the cinders debuff. I've seen deaths where it's the first death of the fight and it was on them for 7-8 seconds before a dispel. I don't know exactly how your team is handling it, but that debuff should be dispelled in the first 3-4 seconds if not sooner. Early in the fight it doesn't hurt as much, but once you are on that 4th head or so it starts murdering. By the time you are on the last 2 heads, it really needs to be immediately dispelled. (although our SPriest can pop dispersion to clear some ice). Definitely assign 1-2 people to handle dispelling cinders. Communicate when heals have to move with an ice beam so that someone else can cover a dispel. You also have a very big room to play with so range can stand max distance and healers more mid to keep all of the ground crap out of your way. Demon port can cover a lot of the movement. Other than that, I do agree that your Hunter and your DK are really low, it would be easier on Meg to get more dps out of them than worry about the SPriest.

[Maelstrom51]

The DK tank is slacking a lot as well. I do ~89k dps as blood with a 504 weapon on this fight.

[Ater]

This is the logs from our first kill and as you can see our dps was not that high, as a matter of fact the one with the highest dps did 103K and the second highest only 92K. So our top three cant even compete with your top three:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=3964&e=4459

The ilvl we had at the time, according to wowprogress:
Tanks:
Druid - 503,73
Paladin - 500

Druid - 507,38
Paladin - 494,94
Shaman - 500,88

DPS:
Mage - 502,40
Priest - 498,81
Shaman (ench) - 511,13
Shaman (ele) - 510,31
Warrior - 507,56

Your priest is bad, she is doing lower dps then our and she has 14 ilvls better gear so she should beat out priest with a huge margin.

But I don't think that the priest is the reason that you're not getting an kill, yes her dps is bad compared to here gear but here dps is still somewhat enough to get a kill, specially since the top three is doing good dps. Your main problem is your hunter, your shaman and your tanks. Doing 40K dps is not ok as a hunter with ilvl 490 and your tanks, what are they doing?
DK try 3 - 36K dps
DK try 4 - 38K dps
DK try 14 - 31K dps

Druid try 3 - 65K dps
Druid try 4 - 69K dps
Druid try 14 - 66K dps

Compare that to our tanks on the kill:
Paladin (ilvl 500) - 83K dps
Druid (ilvl 503) - 80K dps

[holypriest]

Looking at your shadow priest
1) her hit is way too high - its at 18% when she only needs 15% to be capped she should reforge her hit trinket as well as hit on some of her other gear

2) I am not sure but for that gear level her haste seems low, our shadow priest is over 11k haste (he has about 520 ilvl so a bit higher but he pulls about 130k on Megaera) I would think she would be able to get over the 10 125 breakpoint? Not sure her stat priorities are proper I only play shadow as an offspec so I don't know too much about it but there is a fairly good guide on the priest forums

3) her breakdown seems a little wrong, she has low up time on her dots (~60%) but shadow word pain is often very high on her damage breakdown. Insanity, Flay, DP and MB are usually higher on our shadow's breakdown

as for Tortos it may not be the best for shadow priests but they can usually pull pretty high because of all the aoe and multidotting (ours pulls about 240k dps)http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=333&e=504

[crimsonhead]

Wow I didn't think I'd get this much helpful info Haha. I'm at work and writing this in my phone since my office workstation blocks gaming sites. I'll try to answer some quick questions that you all asked.

The reason I'm picking on my priest is because she is more geared and I know she can do more. Yes, I know I'm a warlock, the "rules" of raiding apply slightly differently for me, I know that. I refuse to believe that a spriest with a 513 iLvl does such low dps.

Thank you for breaking down the DK tank actions / rotation / dmg output. I really had no idea it was subpar in comparison to others. Also, ill make sure to make a note if this info for my hunter. I knew something was up with his dps but I appreciate everyone looking at the logs and breaking it down for me.

I will come back and write more when I get home from the office. Thanks again everyone, very valuable advice!!"

[DarthMetatron]

No way this fight should last 9 minutes at your ilvls.

Replace:
Hunter (horrible raid awareness and he has no idea how to play)
Spriest (horrible raid awareness and DPS is mediocre but not horrible)
Shaman (Has the lowest DPS I've ever seen for someone with good raid awareness)
DK - Tell your DK Conversion is just bad. It is the reason his Rune Strike count is low and in turn why his DPS is not even close to acceptable. AMZ is not as useful as Purgatory for this fight (or most fights) either. Or, just replace him since he doesn't know that already. Rune Strike should be about 25% of his overall damage.

Here is why you wiped on each of the 15 fights:

Pull 1 - Raid awareness fail
[21:21:59.553] Acid Rain Acid Rain Calÿpso 333918 (O: 35485)
[21:21:59.553] Acid Rain Acid Rain Kâiri 134440 (O: 28060)

Pull 2 - Raid awareness fail
[21:30:41.150] Flaming Head Cinders Calÿpso 47907 (O: 34968)
[21:31:15.181] Flaming Head Cinders Kâiri 48219 (O: 32751, A: 1905)

Pull 3 - Raid awareness fail
[21:39:58.927] Flaming Head Ignite Flesh Xules 25744 (O: 76893)
[21:42:42.548] Flaming Head Cinders Xules 9340 (O: 88160)

Pull 4 - Raid awareness fail
[21:55:20.346] Flaming Head Cinders Calÿpso 48242 (O: 18058)
[21:55:53.624] Flaming Head Cinders Xules 88760 (O: 3734, A: 16256)
[21:56:08.729] Flaming Head Cinders Calÿpso 31857 (O: 55173, A: 5407)

Pull 5 - Raid awareness fail and tank/heal issue
[22:15:11.957] Flaming Head Ignite Flesh Xules 52973 (O: 49665)
[22:16:28.218] Venomous Head hits Droodnate 97199 (O: 24884)
[22:16:34.189] Flaming Head Cinders Xules 6226 (O: 68012, A: 23262)

Pull 6 - Just No. Healers watching TV?
[22:26:50.186] Acid Rain Acid Rain Stiks 142114 (O: 4136)
[22:27:04.699] Acid Rain Acid Rain Syrice 104364 (O: 41886)
[22:27:09.218] Flaming Head Cinders Calÿpso 71383 (O: 11492)

Pull 7 - Raid awareness
[22:38:27.551] Flaming Head Cinders Stiks 34077 (O: 21512, A: 2911)
[22:38:31.595] Flaming Head Cinders Back 75366 (O: 22134)

Pull 8 - Give up?
[22:47:59.177] Megaera Rampage Back 63619 (O: 2681)
[22:48:02.388] Megaera Rampage Stiks 60291 (O: 6009)
[22:48:02.403] Megaera Rampage Psychiatree 15223 (O: 51077)

Pull 9 - Back...after these messages...
[22:57:46.110] Flaming Head Cinders Back 88545 (O: 8955)
[22:58:00.944] Cinders Cinders Stiks 26183 (O: 94567)
[22:58:02.024] Flaming Head Cinders Back 42930 (O: 46801, A: 7769)

Pull 10 - What the...?
[23:08:33.737] Flaming Head Ignite Flesh Stiks 66075 (O: 16035)
[23:08:38.521] Flaming Head hits Crimsoøñhead 107814 (O: 192796)
[23:08:42.359] Frozen Head hits Droodnate 66675 (O: 22738, A: 8000)
[23:08:43.601] Frozen Head hits Back 135140 (O: 48532)
[23:08:44.871] Frozen Head hits Psychiatree 216133 (O: 20982)
[23:08:49.048] Acid Rain Acid Rain Xules 142403 (O: 50337)
[23:08:49.067] Acid Rain Acid Rain Kâiri 91871 (O: 171691)
[23:08:52.766] Flaming Head Cinders Fêzzy 32052 (O: 52473)
[23:08:52.847] Flaming Head Ignite Flesh Syrice 9466 (O: 12269)
[23:08:59.125] Megaera Rampage Allerzia 27737 (O: 38563)

Pull 11 - Looks like everyone stopped caring after pull 8. At least you pulled the SPriest!
[23:19:21.303] Acid Rain Acid Rain Droodnate 105353 (O: 43500, A: 8000)
[23:19:26.952] Cinders Cinders Allerzia 31924 (O: 29223, A: 75353)

Pull 12 - Raid awareness by Mage or tank positioning, and healers asleep at the wheel
[23:32:20.238] Flaming Head Ignite Flesh Allerzia 27300
[23:32:20.538] Allerzia Cauterize Allerzia 11690 (O: 35586)
[23:32:23.688] Acid Rain Acid Rain Fêzzy 161121 (O: 20129)

Pull 13 - Something new and interesting, Cinder deaths
[23:39:49.837] Cinders Cinders Back 103572 (O: 17178)
[23:41:05.206] Flaming Head Cinders Xules 75671 (O: 10579)

Pull 14 - I can't believe the Hunter is still in here
[23:52:30.507] Flaming Head Cinders Xules 71420 (O: 26080)
[23:54:26.252] Flaming Head Ignite Flesh Syrice 70374 (O: 13164)

Pull - 15 - Night night (just realized why the DK takes so much damage and DPS is so low...Conversion)
[00:04:38.640] Frozen Head hits Syrice 90493 (O: 40519)

[pld]

No way this fight should last 9 minutes at your ilvls.

Replace:
Hunter (horrible raid awareness and he has no idea how to play)
Spriest (horrible raid awareness and DPS is mediocre but not horrible)
Shaman (Has the lowest DPS I've ever seen for someone with good raid awareness)
DK - Tell your DK Conversion is just bad. It is the reason his Rune Strike count is low and in turn why his DPS is not even close to acceptable. AMZ is not as useful as Purgatory for this fight (or most fights) either. Or, just replace him since he doesn't know that already. Rune Strike should be about 25% of his overall damage.

Here is why you wiped on each of the 12 fights:

Your notes on why they wiped on each pull are hilarious. Good analysis, sir.

OT: I would highly suggest posting these logs in the class forums and get some constructive criticism on behalf of your sub-par DPS. There are a lot of great suggestions above, but you'll probably get more feedback in the specific class forums.

[DarthMetatron]

Had to come back and look at the logs again, people are not being dispelled nearly quick enough and people with Cinders are not being healed. Much more to it than just a "dps issue" here.

Especially when you are 7+ mins into the fight, you think you're going to run for 3 seconds then be dispelled and expect to live? Chances are slim to none.

Suggested strat:

/range 5

play Dispel "whack-a-mole" on players affected by Cinders and make them move.

Even 1 tick of Cinder pool is less than 3+ ticks of the DoT.

[crimsonhead]

OK back at home so I can analyze what you guys said a bit better and respond accordingly.

Keep in mind, I am just a regular DPS. I have no pull in who goes / gets sat and / or who we bring. Also, our pool of sufficient players is VERY low and we need to recruit some solid people as well. Also, I think this may spin things up a bit as well, the reason I am so invested to a point in this guild was that I left my original server (Executus) to join them on Ner'Zhul because they were also leaving their original server (Alleria). I chose them among other guilds because I thought it was a right fit after speaking with them, granted, I could find another guild on Ner'Zhul but that's not really what I am trying to do since I have built a repertoire with these guys.

In all honesty the information and advice you all have provided was beyond all expectations I had, truly, I know I said that once but I can't really emphasize how awesome it is the feedback I've gotten. I just need to find an eloquent way to present this information to my guild without them thinking I went behind their back and are trying to mess up their raid core. I really just wanted to get some insight on why we were failing (although I think I knew why) but the detail some of you went to was exceptionally helpful. I will bring forward the RBRBRBR strat to them and see what they say, though I am hoping my advice to them doesn't fall on deaf ears.

I just want to raid with 9 other (or 24 other) people that can and do pull their own weight, it's difficult to want to succeed when you can see clear signs of a failing system but can't do anything about it.