I don't see how we can avoid getting a new class in the next expansion.

[Teriz]

I would rather have no new class/race and instead get model updates for the older races.

We're already getting those. The point of this thread is what are we getting on top of that. Some seem to believe that we're getting even more races, which makes no sense.

[TheRealDavidTwo]

No they didn't, which is why people keep asking when the new models are coming out, and no one knows.

And no, new models that were announced before MoP came out isn't a good centerpiece for the new expansion. Blizzard always announces the major features for the new expansion when they announce the new expansion.

I doubt Blizzard will even release the new models before/after the next expansion... Let's be honest, Blizzard has.. what? Announced it for two expansions now and hasn't done a thing with it? Whatever happened to the dwarves that were being updated?

Anyways, something tells me we'll get some new neutral race, with a class. Or maybe one horde/alliance race? inb4 something demonic. And what's up with the announcement of a potential tinker class there? That sounds neat, but stupid...

[Teriz]

I doubt Blizzard will even release the new models before/after the next expansion... Let's be honest, Blizzard has.. what? Announced it for two expansions now and hasn't done a thing with it? Whatever happened to the dwarves that were being updated?

That's sort of the point of this thread. Blizzard really needs to redo the vanilla races. Its really something they can't put on the backburner, because those old races look pretty bad. Its not helping that they're producing original race NPCs left and right that look vastly superior to player models.

This is why I believe that we're getting the new player models next expansion.

Anyways, something tells me we'll get some new neutral race, with a class. Or maybe one horde/alliance race? inb4 something demonic. And what's up with the announcement of a potential tinker class there? That sounds neat, but stupid...

Like I said, if Blizzard is smart (and they are), they'd hold out on developing new races and focus on getting the old races up to snuff. This is why I think we're seeing a class next go around, with Vanilla races handling the race side of things.

Tinkers is the only future class concept that really makes sense at this point in the game.

[Drilnos]

Yeah, but it's the least feasible as Engineering covers most of it's bases already.

If anything, Demon Hunter is the probable candidate.

Engineering covers nothing. Engineers make toys and semi-useless doodads. Every character I've called my main has been an engineer since I first fired up the game, because I wanted, really wanted, to make it a playstyle. Back when I started with my dwarf pally, I had far more interest in making whirring bronze gizmos and the like than I had in his actual class abilities.

The usefulness of the exploding sheep and the poultryizer and all the rest of it has long since been outgrown. All I'm left with is an on-use glove enchant I've got macroed and am barely cognizant of, and a belt enchant I save for situations that are so dire that they're nearly non-existent. And a parachute cloak that I haven't used in combat since that time in MSV that it crashed the game when I did so. As if slow falling in a raid is all that useful anyway. I've got three stacks of landsharks that I can't bring myself to just junk, because I'm sure as heck not going to blow a cast time on something that doesn't scale with gear.

So what bases are we covering here? The base that lets you make crap you could buy off the auction house anyway? The base that gives you abilities that are really passives, or ones that you don't want to use because there's a good chance you'll kill yourself? One forgotten little paladin back in the recesses of time had a dream of wading into battle with robots and bombs and tanks and death rays blazing. That is a dream unrealized. That is a base uncovered.

A druid engineer is nothing more than a druid.

[Thimagryn]

They could easily implement non new race/class features into the game that draw the crowds back. TBH I think the 4th spc + new player models is the best way, it's a system that allows the artists to focus on the revamps while the designers create new playstyles that doesn't require more geartypes or models. A new class isn't that hard to implement either, but even a new Race would be easier to handle since it doesn't require more art for gear.

A new class needs everything new, from spell effects to armor styles to abilities. It's too much work to expect character revamps and a new class in the same expansion.

[Taoforums]

I would rather want revamped old models than new ones

[Anjerith]

Given the continual demand for new character models since Cata, and their constantly stating they are working on them, I feel that "New Character Models" will replace the "New Class" or "New Race" on the next expansion.

[Teriz]

Great post Drilnos.

They could easily implement non new race/class features into the game that draw the crowds back. TBH I think the 4th spc + new player models is the best way, it's a system that allows the artists to focus on the revamps while the designers create new playstyles that doesn't require more geartypes or models. A new class isn't that hard to implement either, but even a new Race would be easier to handle since it doesn't require more art for gear.

A new class needs everything new, from spell effects to armor styles to abilities. It's too much work to expect character revamps and a new class in the same expansion.

Well Blizzard said that 4th spec isn't happening. At least not this expansion.

A class would require as much work as 4th specs to implement. So there you go.

[Thimagryn]

Stop ignoring what I said.

Class requires MORE work than 4th specs because of Artwork and Spell effects. The Art team would already be focused on working on existing character revamps and making sure the transitions for all gear/model combinations work seamlessly in the transition. A new class isn't likely to happen right away.

[Teriz]

Stop ignoring what I said.

Class requires MORE work than 4th specs because of Artwork and Spell effects. The Art team would already be focused on working on existing character revamps and making sure the transitions for all gear/model combinations work seamlessly in the transition. A new class isn't likely to happen right away.

GC disagrees;

@Ghostcrawler Silly question: What would take more effort, creating a new class from scratch, or adding a new spec to existing ones?

@shawnlanglois About the same when you consider the number of new abilities either would require. New class would take more art, esp. armor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ghostcraw...23266185551872

[Halicia]

GC disagrees;

quotes boil down a fairly complex situation to a few words that everyone leaps to blame anyways.

drawing specifically from his quote though, new class would take more ART, and since the art teams tend to be the chokepoints for content to begin with, it may be easier for them to multitask 4th specs...

also, 4th specs can be delivered piecemeal (yeah, there will be people complaining that THEIR class didnt get a 4th spec at launch, but ppl will be complaining regardless). Classes *have* to launch with 3 full specs. period.

Mind you, with the little amount actually differentiating the specs now, it wouldnt be too hard to add a spec to the classes. the tough part would be spitballing concepts that arent already covered, but would help fill a gap in the game not already present in the class. some classes lend themselves to this more readily than others.

but yeah, I'd be happy if we could get the model updates & a few 4th specs... but I think we're more likely to see a pair of races and maybe a new class depending on the expac theme.

[Conscious]

Engineering covers nothing. Engineers make toys and semi-useless doodads. Every character I've called my main has been an engineer since I first fired up the game, because I wanted, really wanted, to make it a playstyle. Back when I started with my dwarf pally, I had far more interest in making whirring bronze gizmos and the like than I had in his actual class abilities.

The usefulness of the exploding sheep and the poultryizer and all the rest of it has long since been outgrown. All I'm left with is an on-use glove enchant I've got macroed and am barely cognizant of, and a belt enchant I save for situations that are so dire that they're nearly non-existent. And a parachute cloak that I haven't used in combat since that time in MSV that it crashed the game when I did so. As if slow falling in a raid is all that useful anyway. I've got three stacks of landsharks that I can't bring myself to just junk, because I'm sure as heck not going to blow a cast time on something that doesn't scale with gear.

So what bases are we covering here? The base that lets you make crap you could buy off the auction house anyway? The base that gives you abilities that are really passives, or ones that you don't want to use because there's a good chance you'll kill yourself? One forgotten little paladin back in the recesses of time had a dream of wading into battle with robots and bombs and tanks and death rays blazing. That is a dream unrealized. That is a base uncovered.

A druid engineer is nothing more than a druid.

What do you call your beloved "Tinker" that takes Engineering as a primary Profession?

My point is, yes the profession may be dated and whack, but most others are as well. That doesn't justify a class unto itself, that is currently at this time basically a profession.

I'm aware you have a passion for the implementation of a "Tinker" class, but the facts of the matter remain - It's just too far into left field to be called feasible right now, both from a game-play perspective, as well as lore wise.

[Thimagryn]

Your quote just solidified what I said. My point is with the character revamps, the ART is already a lot to handle. A new class requires more ART.

TBH I don't even think 4th spec are necessary. I simply meant that 4th spec would have been more likely, and even then it doesn't mean we're getting 4th specs next expansion.

Anything is possible and they could surprise us with a new class, but basing on what they already have on their plates (character model revamps) it's not likely that a new class would be introduced.

[Mormolyce]

What is with all this 4th spec crap?

1) Blizzard frequently complains about having over 30 specs in the game to constantly balance and says that if they had it over they probably wouldn't make so many.

2) Making a 4th spec would mean 12 new specs to create, maintain and balance and make meaningfully different from the existing ones. That's the equivalent of adding 4 new classes to the game. In short I don't fucking think so.

3) Blizzard said no already.

Yeah, and it would be a huge flop. New models were expected in MoP, not to be the main draw of WoW 6.0.

People play expansions because they're expansions, not to play a new race or class, that's just icing. Most people play on their mains and maybe try out the new race/class on an alt. They could quite easily release an expansion with no new races or classes.

In fact I'd be kind of glad if they did, the number of classes and races is getting out of control.

[Therougetitan]

True, they've said a number of things, in the past, regarding several topics. Some of those things are in game, some of them aren't. You might notice that the same thing they said about Pandarens was also said about Demon Hunters... mainly that they were no plans for them to be in the game at the time. That's neither confirmation nor negation.

Curious, where did they say that they had no plans to include Pandaren?

[Mormolyce]

We're already getting those.

You're "getting" whatever Blizzard decides to "give" you.

Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

[Deleted]

You're "getting" whatever Blizzard decides to "give" you.

Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

Why would a new class be to soon? I could understand that argument after DK's because there implementation was... difficult to say the least. Understandable because it was the first time they did it. I remember them saying at that time that they would indeed slow down on adding new classes because of those difficulties.
But, they kinda nailed it with Monks imo. I think that monks are already in a place that took DK's nearly two years to get to. So there isn't a giant mess of a new class holding them from adding another.
Overall class balance will -forever- be an issue. There is no chance in hell that they will ever perfectly balance all classes/specs, so that's hardly an argument against adding more. I think that as long is class balance is in a fairly good spot, there is nothing wrong with adding another class.

[Meiluy]

You're "getting" whatever Blizzard decides to "give" you.

Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

You know what, I like you. You've effectively said the piece I wanted to in a shorter, more concise way...

Teriz, we've had our debate. I'm done. I'm honestly tired of you ignoring points of posts, posting the same rebuttals that only half apply to the argument at hand, and your incessant pushing of a class we have a low chance of getting, not just next expansion but ever. The only thing I will say in reply to an earlier response is that when the Remodel team is done, they will most likely be given a new project. Perhaps to work on the expansion following the next, who knows. Either way, the fact that you thought they would end up unemployed or just twiddling their thumbs after the remodel project is done shows you have no concept as to how the industry actually works. As far as I am concerned, every argument you have made regarding the teams is invalid, because you don't know. You make weak assumptions that are built upon what YOU think should work, and you are wrong.

I hope that when the next expansion gets announced, and the Tinker class is not announced with it, that you will finally learn to accept it. I will say, should they announce it with the next expansion, I will come here and create a thread to apologize to you. Seriously. However, I think my odds are pretty good that I will never, ever have to apologize to you.

PS: You should really rethink your stance on EQ. Without it, we'd have no WoW. You don't have to like it, but understand everything we have now was built on it's base model, and the fact that it is the longest lasting MMO should be worth some note.

[roahn the warlock]

If a 'show piece' is necessary as you pitch it, would new models not fill that role perfectly while utilizing the same team who usually would be working on the previous races?

Yeah, that wouldn't piss of anybody. A lot of people come back to try out the new class/race... now if they redid the racials completely, added new class mounts.. new spell animations and pretty much brought everything the player sees to 2014 then yes

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 05:25 AM ----------

I would expect new models. All new spell effects. All new animations. Several old things redone, such as mounts. No more fucking clipping on items. Several things that should be a given in 2013

[Teriz]

What do you call your beloved "Tinker" that takes Engineering as a primary Profession?

My point is, yes the profession may be dated and whack, but most others are as well. That doesn't justify a class unto itself, that is currently at this time basically a profession.

I'm aware you have a passion for the implementation of a "Tinker" class, but the facts of the matter remain - It's just too far into left field to be called feasible right now, both from a game-play perspective, as well as lore wise.

Those aren't facts. Technology in WoW is a pretty integral part of lore, as re characters that use that technology. In addition there was a tinker hero unit from WC3, and Goblins and Gnomes are both playable races. That makes things very feasible.

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 10:56 AM ----------

Your quote just solidified what I said. My point is with the character revamps, the ART is already a lot to handle. A new class requires more ART.

TBH I don't even think 4th spec are necessary. I simply meant that 4th spec would have been more likely, and even then it doesn't mean we're getting 4th specs next expansion.

Anything is possible and they could surprise us with a new class, but basing on what they already have on their plates (character model revamps) it's not likely that a new class would be introduced.

Except both GC and the development team said that 4th specs aren't coming next expansion if ever because it would require too much effort over the long haul, and because of spec bloat. So they are off the table completely.

What's left? Races and classes. The Blizzard dev team is working on vanilla (and possibly TBC) remodels, so the race side of things is handled. The only thing left is a new class.

The main feature of the next expansion won't be something announced years ago.

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 11:30 AM ----------

You're "getting" whatever Blizzard decides to "give" you.

Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

Two years isn't enough? Two years in gaming is a very long time.