Patch 2.1 Customization - Cathars & more

[moff]

To be fair he didn't mention anything about the amount of work. He specifically said we wouldn't see market driven patches like this regularly. Which is total bullshit. That's pretty much all we've seen since launching F2P.

He's talking about updates of the 8 week cycle. not the regular CM update patches.
those are not a problem, the problem was that one of the 8 week content updates consists now basically of cartel market items, which is not alright. people complained about it and he responded to it.

[Deleted]

He's talking about updates of the 8 week cycle. not the regular CM update patches.
those are not a problem, the problem was that one of the 8 week content updates consists now basically of cartel market items, which is not alright. people complained about it and he responded to it.

Content update 2.0 was April the 9th/14

Content update 2.2 is scheduled for June 11th.

8 weeks inbetween. As per their usual 6-8 week cycle promise (though, like others, I doubt we'll see a 6 week one anytime this millenia)

Patch 2.1 is not part of the cycle obviously as it neither has content nor fits their 6-8 week cycle. 2.1 came out only 4 weeks after 2.0.

What I'm getting at is that 2.1 in now way affects the 6-8 week cycle of content. It hasn't substituted any content and should be seen as 'extra'. The fact that I personally think the patch sucks is neither here nor there. Bottom line is that strictly speaking their cycle of content from last july is still on track.

[katta]

*Looks up from playing star conflict*

Mhm... Right. I am sure they are working so hard on it.

They are. Wasnt it one of the lead guys saying they played a demo version of it an it was awesome.

The SSSP isnt comming. They will continue to say its being worked on but then they will always have some excuse as to it was put on a short hold because of reason A,B,C,D,E,F,G etc. How long have they been working on it? for over 1 1/2 years I believe and they have absolutely 0 information they can show us.

The SSSP was the heroic space missions. There were small tells from them at E3 that makes what they did with the heroic missions as what they were calling the SSSP.

[Kelimbror]

What I'm getting at is that 2.1 in now way affects the 6-8 week cycle of content. It hasn't substituted any content and should be seen as 'extra'. The fact that I personally think the patch sucks is neither here nor there. Bottom line is that strictly speaking their cycle of content from last july is still on track.

Now now, patch 2.0 needs to be called what it really is...the release of the 'expansion'. I don't think it's exactly fair to count that as a patch in a content cycle since you had to pay for it. Technically this game hasn't had a free content patch for subscribers since 1.7 on 02-12-13 which was almost 14 weeks ago. By the time 2.2 comes out it will have been over 4 months since the last content patch that subscribers didn't have to pay for.

Ponder that reality in light of their message.

[Edge-]

That's reaching Kitty. An expansion always alters the content cycle in every game. There is always a lul in content shortly before (either no content or very small updates) and shortly after (to let people get through the expansion content). You can call into question the quality of ROTCH and whether or not it's an "expansion" or DLC or worth the money or whatever, but it fits in with their schedule.

[Redblade]

That's reaching Kitty. An expansion always alters the content cycle in every game. There is always a lul in content shortly before (either no content or very small updates) and shortly after (to let people get through the expansion content). You can call into question the quality of ROTCH and whether or not it's an "expansion" or DLC or worth the money or whatever, but it fits in with their schedule.

I'd have to agree with him, and besides, there was a lull for what 6 months before the 'expansion' anyway so...

btw. No one able to tally up what it would cost for a subscriber to unlock everything that the subscription doesn't unlock by default?

[Kelimbror]

That's reaching Kitty. An expansion always alters the content cycle in every game. There is always a lul in content shortly before (either no content or very small updates) and shortly after (to let people get through the expansion content). You can call into question the quality of ROTCH and whether or not it's an "expansion" or DLC or worth the money or whatever, but it fits in with their schedule.

You're missing the point. The big fuss, especially around this communication, is about a subscribers getting screwed. What do people say that you pay for with a subscription in a non F2P game? 2 things.

1) Access to the game.
2) New content.

Now, when a game goes F2P and has a sub model...sure there are perks, but the largest factor in the subscription (the access) is now provided at no cost. Given that they committed to a time period (be it 6, 8 10 weeks) of providing content...what has a subscriber's $15/month given them? RotHC was an extra cost, not included with a subscription. So everything it entails cannot be factored into the content cycle unless we want to call it like it is and realize that subscribers and their subscription fee are worthless.

My specific point is that it can't be counted because it was at an extra cost. That is, separate from their content patches. So the ultimate point, to reiterate, is that it will be over 4 months between content included with a subscription (which by the way is being given to everyone else for free)

[Deleted]

Now now, patch 2.0 needs to be called what it really is...the release of the 'expansion'. I don't think it's exactly fair to count that as a patch in a content cycle since you had to pay for it. Technically this game hasn't had a free content patch for subscribers since 1.7 on 02-12-13 which was almost 14 weeks ago. By the time 2.2 comes out it will have been over 4 months since the last content patch that subscribers didn't have to pay for.

Ponder that reality in light of their message.

2.0 wasn't the expansion. RoTHC was Makeb and 50-55. 2.0 was everything else. The problem though is that you couldn't do most of the 2.0 content without being lvl 55 lol. So you needed the expansion to play most of 2.0. How do I know they were 'seperate'? Because a guildy didn't buy the expansion but still had access to 2.0 on the 14th April.

Wasn't there a dev response highlighting which part of 2.0 was expansion related and which wasn't? Will have to research a bit as due to pre-ordering I didn't give a womprat's arse what the difference was at the time.

EDIT: Found it. My god it's weak but it's there. The 2.0 free content was essentially:
1) Class changes and balancing levels 1-50
2) Any itemization/world changes which affect levels 1-50
3) Legacy Achievements

Every single other piece of content was linked to the expansion and thus not part of the subscriber 6-8 week content cycle.

Link:http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/swtor-pa...overage-guide/

[Kelimbror]

*snip*

Correct. No content was provided outside of the expansion. So 2.0 was the expansion. I can't even tell if we're arguing, but your post proves that there was no content at that time. I guess I can give you legacy achieves...but if we're stooping so low that a secondary system on it's own is enough content to fill their cycle then we may as well let them go ahead and charge a $400 flat fee to continue playing the game as is.

[Morros]

I don't think the subscription is worthless. For $15 a month I get:

1. Unlimited access to all Operations, on all difficulties, which I do weekly with my guild.
2. 12 Character slots, of which I am currently using 10.
3. Free Cartel Coins every month.
4. Full XP.
5. Bonus Reputation.
6. Full access to Flashpoints and Warzones.
7. All the little frills that I'm not going to bother listing individually. (Unfiy colors, titles, etc.)
8. Access to Section X and HK-51.
9. Full quest rewards when leveling alts.

Personally I could care less if patches come every 6-8 weeks or 20 weeks. I enjoy the game, and have fun playing it every day. To me the Cartel Market is like a fun bonus where I can buy neat things if I want to.

[katta]

I don't think the subscription is worthless. For $15 a month I get:

1. Unlimited access to all Operations, on all difficulties, which I do weekly with my guild.
2. 12 Character slots, of which I am currently using 10.
3. Free Cartel Coins every month.
4. Full XP.
5. Bonus Reputation.
6. Full access to Flashpoints and Warzones.
7. All the little frills that I'm not going to bother listing individually. (Unfiy colors, titles, etc.)
8. Access to Section X and HK-51.
9. Full quest rewards when leveling alts.

Personally I could care less if patches come every 6-8 weeks or 20 weeks. I enjoy the game, and have fun playing it every day. To me the Cartel Market is like a fun bonus where I can buy neat things if I want to.

1. Is the option to buy OPS for only only one OPS? only one difficulty? only one character? How much in coins would that cost for you to do it instead?
2. You can create 6 F2P accounts for free and get 12 slots correct? The only thing that you would lose is a legacy connection of them?
3. That is used on cosmetic items that are not needed in the game. So your paying for something that you dont need correct where as F2P you can buy them if you want.
4. Must be worth it when your 55.
5. Must be worth it when your capped.
6. Some questions her as with OPS.
7. Your continue to rent them per month when you can buy them for a one time fee.
8. How much of a cost in CC would that be?
9. Is gear that important when leveling?

Funny thing is is that your say your sub is paying for those things but once you stop your sub you lose them all correct? and would have to purchase them all again if you started F2P. All you do is get access to them where as a F2P player can buy them.

If a F2P player doesnt run flashpoints anymore because they are doing ops they dont have to pay for it, you do.
If a F2P player is 55 and you are 55 the full XP is worthless but your still paying for it.
Once a F2P player buys titles they dont pay for them anymore while you continue to pay

[Morros]

1. Is the option to buy OPS for only only one OPS? only one difficulty? only one character? How much in coins would that cost for you to do it instead?
2. You can create 6 F2P accounts for free and get 12 slots correct? The only thing that you would lose is a legacy connection of them?
3. That is used on cosmetic items that are not needed in the game. So your paying for something that you dont need correct where as F2P you can buy them if you want.
4. Must be worth it when your 55.
5. Must be worth it when your capped.
6. Some questions her as with OPS.
7. Your continue to rent them per month when you can buy them for a one time fee.
8. How much of a cost in CC would that be?
9. Is gear that important when leveling?

Funny thing is is that your say your sub is paying for those things but once you stop your sub you lose them all correct? and would have to purchase them all again if you started F2P. All you do is get access to them where as a F2P player can buy them.

If a F2P player doesnt run flashpoints anymore because they are doing ops they dont have to pay for it, you do.
If a F2P player is 55 and you are 55 the full XP is worthless but your still paying for it.
Once a F2P player buys titles they dont pay for them anymore while you continue to pay

Fair points, almost.

1. You can't do Hard Mode Operations with the Ops pass available for F2P and Preferred players.
2. Creating 6 F2P accounts would be a huge hassle that I wouldn't really want to manage. I enjoy having my characters on the same account to take advantage of my legacy, the things I have unlocked, legacy wide achievements, and collections.
3. I don't look at it as if I'm paying $15 for the Cartel Coin stipend, since I was paying $15 a month before the Cartel Market came out, it's a bonus, used on cosmetic things I don't necessarily need, but enjoy having.
4. I only have two out of 10 characters at level 55, and I don't play 24/7, so I will be taking advantage of full XP for quite some time!
5. It will be quite a while before I have every single rep maxed, so I'm not too worried.
6. You stop receiving full loot from the end bosses of Flashpoints after you have done so many per week, this isn't exactly a big deal for say, my level 55 characters, but it is for my alts.
7. Why buy them at all? I'm paying a subscription fee anyway since I enjoy the game. That would be a valid argument if this was the sole reason I was subscribing, but as you can see, it didn't make it on the list until number 7.
8. The CC cost is irrelevant, since I don't have to pay for it.
9. Gear is important while leveling, try doing Corellia with gear you got from Tython, Ord Mantel, Hutta, or Korriban.


But like I said, these are all the things I get with a $15/month subscription fee, that I would be paying for anyway, because I enjoy this game.

[Deleted]

Correct. No content was provided outside of the expansion. So 2.0 was the expansion. I can't even tell if we're arguing, but your post proves that there was no content at that time. I guess I can give you legacy achieves...but if we're stooping so low that a secondary system on it's own is enough content to fill their cycle then we may as well let them go ahead and charge a $400 flat fee to continue playing the game as is.

No, we're not arguing. I agree that it's very little free content in 2.0. It is there but it's very weak. I wouldn't accept that quantity in 2.2 for example.

[katta]

Fair points, almost.

1. You can't do Hard Mode Operations with the Ops pass available for F2P and Preferred players.
2. Creating 6 F2P accounts would be a huge hassle that I wouldn't really want to manage. I enjoy having my characters on the same account to take advantage of my legacy, the things I have unlocked, legacy wide achievements, and collections.
3. I don't look at it as if I'm paying $15 for the Cartel Coin stipend, since I was paying $15 a month before the Cartel Market came out, it's a bonus, used on cosmetic things I don't necessarily need, but enjoy having.
4. I only have two out of 10 characters at level 55, and I don't play 24/7, so I will be taking advantage of full XP for quite some time!
5. It will be quite a while before I have every single rep maxed, so I'm not too worried.
6. You stop receiving full loot from the end bosses of Flashpoints after you have done so many per week, this isn't exactly a big deal for say, my level 55 characters, but it is for my alts.
7. Why buy them at all? I'm paying a subscription fee anyway since I enjoy the game. That would be a valid argument if this was the sole reason I was subscribing, but as you can see, it didn't make it on the list until number 7.
8. The CC cost is irrelevant, since I don't have to pay for it.
9. Gear is important while leveling, try doing Corellia with gear you got from Tython, Ord Mantel, Hutta, or Korriban.


But like I said, these are all the things I get with a $15/month subscription fee, that I would be paying for anyway, because I enjoy this game.

1. So F2P can only do story mode OPS no matter what?
2. Can F2P and subs buy slots up to 16? How much would that cost for a F2P player to equal 12 subs on 1 legacy?
3. What I am saying is your saying that getting free CC is a valid reason to be a sub while your also saying that everything in the CC isnt needed.
4. So you say having 12 slots is a good thing about being a sub but then you come back and say you dont play 24/7 so I guess in reality you dont need the 12 slots.
5. In that case the bonus rep isnt that big of a deal now is it.
6.They stop recieveing loot after their free runs have expired?(hope thats it) or are you saying that they could actually buy the pass and not receve loot after doing so?
7. WHat I am saying is to buy the little items how much would it cost? If it costs say 5 bucks to buy all those items then thats 5 bucks total where as a sub you would be spending say $1 every month for it (since you listed it as a reason to sub) where as in 5 months you would actually be paying more than a F2P for this.
8. Not what I asked (see later)
9. You can be a few levels below in gear and be ok(at least at launch you could).

What I am basically asking is if you payed as a F2P for everything how much(long) would it be before you equaled it as a sub cost. Since after that time it would be better to be F2P than a sub. Also remember that once you unsub(goto F2P) you would lose everything you were paying for before. F2P player buys something and quits for 2 years and returns he will have it. You sub for 23 months and then go F2P you wouldnt have it anymore and would still have to pay the same amount as the F2P person did before as well as paying the sub cost over 23 months.

I know its some math but maybe someone would like to do it and see what it comes out to be.

[Psychlon]

I'm not quite sure if I would consider PvP balanced. I have 0 pieces of PvP gear yet I run around doing 800k-1M, critting people for 11k and being somewhat hard to kill. I kind of feel bad that I did not work on any PvP gear what so ever yet I can solo those in full T1 and partly T2.

Even if you had worked on your pvp gear prior 2.0 it would have been entirely worthless. All expertise has been stripped from it and due to their bolstering, whatever pvp gear you had prior would "harm" you (like wearing battlemaster or expertise crystals). So, don't feel bad because even though I had full war hero on some chars, it didn't help me in any way.

That's the bolstering system causing problems. Their logic behind it is the most batshit retarded I've ever heard.

"Well, people sold their PvP gear for money or didn't use it or didn't even know they had it!"
It didn't sell for shit (1 credit), and it was kinda obvious on how to get it. If they wanted to make it more obvious, there are easy ways to do it.

"Well, people were using their starter PvP gear in PvE instances!"
Now people are using their PvE gear in PvP warzones...so you have the reverse of the problem. An the PvP gear wasn't great in PvE due to the wasted stats.

Those were basically their excuses for removing starter PvP gear and putting in the bolster system. The collective response I've seen to them were basically, "...what the fuck?"

I agree that the reasoning for the bolster system is batshit but their argument was that people rather took the money option over the gear option which would give them 150k? or something. Still a pretty weak argument if people chose not to wear pvp gear but still wanted to pvp + got the benefit of having 150k for free.

You could get your war hero gear prior in a very small amount of time and you could do hardmodes with it and many people did use this to get their "endgame pvp" gear.

The only thing which turns me off is that even if you pvp from 10-55, you can only get a limited amount of pvp gear and the bolster system is working so weird that you wouldn't even use pvp gear until you have a full set of modified conquerer. There is also no way to predict how bolster is going to work. They implemented the system, they should also explain how it works down to numbers which would be applicable at any stage of your pvp experience. I still don't understand how someone with green quest gear can have more life than me +/- 3 level difference while I have a full modded up to level gear.

I'm happy I don't have to farm up PvP gear in order to rape people. Sure, someone in full Conq gear might give me a run for my money- but I'm still highly competitive in just PvE gear. Granted its a bit unfair that I can use my PvE gear to destroy everyone in PvP but they can't use their PvP gear in PvE.

They can't use their conquerer gear to do the hardest operations, however the best pvp gear should still be better than what you can get just from pve gear. The difference however is that pvp should not be a gear driven contest. It's player vs. player.... experience vs. experience and if someone in pvp gear is less experience than you in pve... shouldn't you beat him? People complaining about pve player usually just negate that they love burning pve players because they usually didn't go the length to get their fully modded pvp gear. To me it seems like that the pvp village had its heroes, however now the pve village is showing up and you can tell that they can be good in pvp as well (some morons still try to deny it).

They are. Wasnt it one of the lead guys saying they played a demo version of it an it was awesome.

The SSSP isnt comming. They will continue to say its being worked on but then they will always have some excuse as to it was put on a short hold because of reason A,B,C,D,E,F,G etc. How long have they been working on it? for over 1 1/2 years I believe and they have absolutely 0 information they can show us.

The SSSP was the heroic space missions. There were small tells from them at E3 that makes what they did with the heroic missions as what they were calling the SSSP.

Well they also said space was a "fun" mini game but the time I actually spent playing this mini game is insignificant. Even player which did space frequently just for the change of scenery stopped doing it.

No, we're not arguing. I agree that it's very little free content in 2.0. It is there but it's very weak. I wouldn't accept that quantity in 2.2 for example.

We did know that 2.1 would be a pure CM patch..... that some people don't like to keep themselves updated is one thing, however the problem with 2.1 is not that it's pure CM/ cosmetic, the problem with 2.1 is that they start moneytizing things which many people believed to be free, at least for subscriber. Was it really worth it to moneytize the customization kios for subscriber? Was it really worth it to moneytize new hair/ eye/ skin color?

[katta]

We did know that 2.1 would be a pure CM patch..... that some people don't like to keep themselves updated is one thing, however the problem with 2.1 is not that it's pure CM/ cosmetic, the problem with 2.1 is that they start moneytizing things which many people believed to be free, at least for subscriber. Was it really worth it to moneytize the customization kios for subscriber? Was it really worth it to moneytize new hair/ eye/ skin color?

I think the problem that people have with 2.1 (even though it isnt part of the 6-8 week cyycle) is that there is probable more content in that patch then there was in any patch since F2P. Subs have been asking for a new species and a barbershop for how long? Then when they finally get it its locked in the cartel market. The collection system is also locked in the CM. From what I have heard it looks like all the best color combos (most wanted) are also only available from the CM and the crafter or CE versions are not the best colors.

It was easy to add all that stuff that would have been the correct way.

1. mark cathar available to subs for free only for newly made characters.
2. make all the new hair tattoo ect items all available to subs for free on newly created characters.
3. charge subs credits for any changes to apperance except for name change and species change(those could be CC only items)
4. make all dyes available to be either crafted or looted in the game, it could be a rare drop learned from a mob or a rare discover making other dyes but every dye should have some way other than the CM to obtain (this includes buying the off the GTM since someone would still of had to buy it to put it up there).
5. make the collection system a credit cost for all subs. Sort of how legacy was in the beginning since its basically the same principle. Do something on one character to have it available to another character.

Think that covers everything in 2.1 that would have been the correct way to do it.

For the F2p players Bioware could charge all they want since they are not paying a sub.

The reason they didnt do this is because the only reason the CM has been so successful is because subs are the ones using it. If I had to guess I would say at least 90% of the CM purchases are from subs and they know if they only tried to get money from the F2P players they wouldnt be making much.

[Gereorth666]

Are event reward armours not included in the collections?
e.g. the sand people armour from the grand acquisitions event?
Thanks

Well, the holiday items that were bought in the CM do count towards. Sadly enough, actual event rewards, don't. Which I find to be a REAL shame. Would've loved to have spread my green-black Crystals.

[Snorkle]

btw. No one able to tally up what it would cost for a subscriber to unlock everything that the subscription doesn't unlock by default?

It would cost the same as 2 years and seven months of subscription.

[Kelimbror]

The reason they didnt do this is because the only reason the CM has been so successful is because subs are the ones using it. If I had to guess I would say at least 90% of the CM purchases are from subs and they know if they only tried to get money from the F2P players they wouldnt be making much.

Jackpot. So sad. So true.

[katta]

It would cost the same as 2 years and seven months of subscription.

Its not that much even if you added in the expansion to that list.

Think you need to reread the question you quoted.