Haste or Crit Moonkin

[Saoron]

One thing that really boggles me is that a huge majority of top moonkins aren't bothering with the 10k cap.. why is that ? lorgok, pacteh, imsuper, zoomkins, bushino to name a few.. And lorgok is at ~15k crit and 9k haste.. only 1 measly k away from the breakpoint, which is like three gems, and he still isn't going for it ? why ?

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 03:40 PM ----------

oh and the logs are always messed up on ji kun.. even if you're in close proximity to the logger.. Never use ji kun for RPPM uptimes..

[Slippykins]

One thing that really boggles me is that a huge majority of top moonkins aren't bothering with the 10k cap.. why is that ? lorgok, pacteh, imsuper, zoomkins, bushino to name a few.. And lorgok is at ~15k crit and 9k haste.. only 1 measly k away from the breakpoint, which is like three gems, and he still isn't going for it ? why ?

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 03:40 PM ----------

oh and the logs are always messed up on ji kun.. even if you're in close proximity to the logger.. Never use ji kun for RPPM uptimes..

SS proc waste is something we haven't really paid attention to until recently - it's understandable a lot of high-end boomkins are sticking with builds that have served them well throughout the tier already. You'll most likely see them hitting the 10289 haste breakpoint next tier with the inflation of secondary stats.

That being said, typically people don't like switching builds just because on paper it's better. Haste has always been better for fights with little movement and just a single target, but you wouldn't see high-end progression boomkins changing their gems just for one or two fights out of the whole tier. Now that we're tracking SS proc waste more, you can see a huge % of waste on multi-target fights, which vastly reduces the value of crit per point. Top boomkins should be able to minimise this waste, but it'll always be apparent in some form. Like I said before, it may take until next tier for them to switch - there isn't much separating the two builds (~1%), so it can also just come down to personal preference. You'll see more variance in a fight from RNG spell damage and crit chance.

[Tenebrai]

There's no mathematical reason to avoid the haste bp. I'm sure it's just preference, same as with a few of us in this thread already.

edit: k we said the same thing at the same time, but you used more words Slippy!

[Deleted]

Again, its all personal preference. Heroic Lei-shen has a decent amount of movement, Yet me (Haste Build) and my guilds other Boomkin (Crit Build) are near neck most of the time. You have 2 choices when moving (Depending on the fight), Get there ASAP and begin standing freecasting again, or take your time casting a few surge procs, reapplying dots, etc. Now, this is really up to how you want to do things, and up to how the fights wants you to do it. Obviously on fights like Durumu, you can't get there asap, and Crit will probably be better to fill in the gaps with surge procs while you move slowly to your goal. I still urge every boomkin to atleast try the haste build (Granted they can reach it with minimal issue), it's really something you need to experience for a few nights to really get a feel for its ups and downs.

Edit - In terms of pure comparison. In WrathCalcs/Simulation Craft the 10298 haste cap is only a 200 dps increase for me, Yet it feels like more due to the difference in playstyle.

Sorry for kinda-off topic, but when I checked your armory, your 16.16% hit stuck out like a sore thumb for me, and I noticed that you could swap the SPI/haste gems in your legs to pure crit, and the pure crit gem in your staff into pure haste. This way you can exchange 120 int for 320 crit while getting rid of 320 excess hit, and still staying above the haste softcap.

[Minituk]

Sorry for kinda-off topic, but when I checked your armory, your 16.16% hit stuck out like a sore thumb for me, and I noticed that you could swap the SPI/haste gems in your legs to pure crit, and the pure crit gem in your staff into pure haste. This way you can exchange 120 int for 320 crit while getting rid of 320 excess hit, and still staying above the haste softcap.

I've been messing around with it recently, When I posted that I was only 45hit over cap, but I was using my old 2/2 H-LotC trinket. I am testing the Valor trinket on Heroic Lei-shen progression, and to meet the Haste bp I put in those Haste/Spirit gems. I am also kind of in that awkward place where I have way too much Hit than I could really do with, but the gear is too good to pass for the time being. It's still a work in progress.

Edit- Going back, I see what you are talking about. That is such an easy change and I feel silly for not noticing it lmao. Thanks!!

[earthwormjim]

How do you determine how many SS procs you are wasting in logs?

[Fleuria]

How do you determine how many SS procs you are wasting in logs?

check how many you used divide by the number of shooting star procs in buffs gained then x 100 to get it to a %

so in short Starsurges hit + crit / shooting stars proc x 100

[Slippykins]

How do you determine how many SS procs you are wasting in logs?

To find SS overwrites you need to go into the expression editor and copy in this (per fight):

fullType = SPELL_AURA_REFRESH
AND spell = "Shooting Stars"
AND sourceName = "BoomkinNameHere"

Tally that up, and divide by the number of SS procs you got overall. So you'd get something like (20 refreshes)/(100 SS procs) = 20% waste. The problem with using number of Starsurges cast is that'll include hardcasts, which will skew the data slightly. It'll be a good approximate, but if you want the fully correct number you'll need to go through the expression editor.

[huth]

check how many you used divide by the number of shooting star procs in buffs gained then x 100 to get it to a %

so in short Starsurges hit + crit / shooting stars proc x 100

No, that would only get you a massively inflated number of wasted procs. You can multiply it with 100%, but that doesn't actually have any effect since 100% = 1.

[Fleuria]

No, that would only get you a massively inflated number of wasted procs. You can multiply it with 100%, but that doesn't actually have any effect since 100% = 1.

well it would show you how many percent you used then you just subtract the number away from 100 to get the percentage not used.

[huth]

Given that we're unlikely to waste more than 100% of the procs, that would get you a number between 99 and 100. You'd still have to substract another 99 and account for hard casted Starsurges to get the actual percentage of wasted procs.

[Fleuria]

Given that we're unlikely to waste more than 100% of the procs, that would get you a number between 99 and 100. You'd still have to substract another 99 and account for hard casted Starsurges to get the actual percentage of wasted procs.

it's only an estimation, end of the day almost every owl i've seen wastes around ~20% in the top 20 wols obviously the lower down you go the far greater % this is.

as for players not changing its just simply down to the fact they love the single way that has worked for them the previous 2 tiers so they are unlikely to change unless one person does it and sees a far greater dps increase which isn't really the case atm.

[earthwormjim]

To find SS overwrites you need to go into the expression editor and copy in this (per fight):

fullType = SPELL_AURA_REFRESH
AND spell = "Shooting Stars"
AND sourceName = "BoomkinNameHere"

Tally that up, and divide by the number of SS procs you got overall. So you'd get something like (20 refreshes)/(100 SS procs) = 20% waste. The problem with using number of Starsurges cast is that'll include hardcasts, which will skew the data slightly. It'll be a good approximate, but if you want the fully correct number you'll need to go through the expression editor.

Ouch, I had 38% waste on Heroic Council and 30% on Heroic Magaera.

I should work on that a bit

I'm using the 10k haste build, still leaves me at 10k crit too.