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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    People already do. What's stopping you?
    The notion that PVPers should not do PVE and PVEers should not do PVP. When I oneshot someone using PVE gear, that someone will go cry about unjustice.
    If I am using PVP gear groups will not accept me as if I am the devil, despite outdpsing the PVE geared dude in lesser gear.

    The distinction of PVErs and PVPers is something comfortable for slackers and/or bads. Dedicated players simply discover strengths and weaknesses and adopt. Slackers cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    The way to fix PvE trinkets and set bonuses in PvP is this:

    PvE trinket procs, and PvE set bonuses in Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas.
    This is one of two ways.

    Instead of a giant fleet of special cased confusing stuff (there's seriously three tables of RPPM based rules involving multiplying durations, modified proc chances, and reduced magnitudes), they could just shut these things off. I think they are instead trying to make every single trinket somehow fair in pvp, but what are the odds of that?

    The bigger issue is- many trinket effects are cool, but break arena. Vial of Shadows, for instance. More common are ones with overstrong synergy with certain comps or strats- the SPA trinkets recently, for instance. The item level change SHOULD solve this, but with the resilience being deleted (essentially it's being added to the PvP trinkets) and PvP Power being nerfed, it's hard to get excited over the two types of dps trinket that PvP gives access to. PvE trinkets still do crazy stuff like that. What would a prenerf item level 496 vial of shadows hit for? Enough to make them not make the trinket, because it would be used to break arenas.

    PvP would look a lot more balanced right now if we weren't exacerbating high burst with pve trinkets that significantly amplify that burst. Much of the problems of the past with legendaries in PvP would be similarly ineffective - rogue wings wouldn't proc and agi stacks wouldn't build, tarecgosa wouldn't proc, thunderfury wouldn't proc, shadowmourne wouldn't proc soul harvest. The only legendary that didn't have an OP proc was the hunter bow - and the legendary hunter bow wasn't even the best PvP bow when it was live, all the top hunters were running a PvE bow out of black temple that had a massive mana drain on every shot: so that wouldn't have worked either.
    I will say that I'm not too worried about legendaries and their procs any more. If the daggers went live in 5.3's environment, for instance, the lack of PvP Power on them would actually be pretty shocking. The daggers were in part amazing because of their item level. With everything at 496, that wouldn't be a factor. Then the wings burst phase would be a thing, but not a huge thing. Unlike the rest of the gear, the PvP Power budget on weapons is SUBSTANTAL. Even after the nerf, you'll feel BAD giving that up. Remember that a 498 weapon on live is better in PvP than a 522 weapon without the power. Post nerf there won't BE a 522 weapon in that bracket to mess with.

    The second possibility is....

    Make good PvP trinkets. Holinka is taking suggestions on Twitter for these, so I listed several off the top of my head. I don't know how great my ideas are or anything, but the big problem is that pvp trinkets are actually designed to suck in pvp. That's goddamned retarded. The PvP trinkets should ALL be Vial of Shadows. You should NEVER want to use anything else. The classes should be balanced around this, of course. Look at your PvP trinket. The on-use one has a very modest agility proc, and a short cooldown. This was done to minimize burst, but a PvE trinket could totally give you double that value without blinking an eye. That's because your PvP trinket is designed to be awful. Instead, make it good. Ideally, make a whole bunch of them. Make one with two different RPPM procs. Make one that boosts offense and defense when you use it. Make one that gives you a bubble of health when you fall below 20%.

    And here's the real secret-

    Make them all the same trinket.

    You know that UI when you open a belt or whatever for socketting? Do that. When you do that to this trinket, you can change its form. This can only be done when you can change talents. Now you can pick your trinket type before you go into battle. Now you LIKE your goddamned trinket.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 11:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Crafted gear at least on my server is a massive pain to make unless you find someone sitting on a ton of mats - it's often faster to just honor farm in greens than to go out and farm up the mats to make my alts crafted before I honor farm - and a lot more fun running BGs even in frustratingly bad greens than skinning mobs to craft my rdruid's recent 450 set.

    The problem here is that the crafted gear is so awful. If I walk into a BG with quest greens I expect to get crushed. I focus on controls- on my druid I'll throw way more crowd controls than heals or dps, because those aren't affected by my poor item levels. That's sad, but whatever. If I craft 450 (or now 458) gear, I've now gone through a ton of relogging and effort and gold to make gear that- is still terrible. Lasting 3 seconds into a shockwave instead of 2 doesn't make me any happier or any more alive.

  3. #43
    PvP should just bypass any and all gear attributes. Everyone gets a flat resilience / hit / expertise rate, and gear is cosmetic.

    There, that was easy.
    Beautiful veins and bloodshot eyes.
    "If you are not capable of cruelty, you are absolutely a victim to anyone who is" - J. Peterson

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Cairhiin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Fainth View Post
    They need to do away with the 65% reduction and put all resil back on to gear. This would force players to use pvp gear. Now I know they did the 65% resil to help new 90s get gear but why cant they just add a vendor who sells low ilvl pvp gear for gold? Kind of like the vendor who sells low ilvl pvp gear as you level.

    Heres a link to another thread I made about pvp.
    Why exactly do you think pve gear need to stay out of PvP? People also use PvP gear in PvE. Both gear should be usable to some extend, PvP gear should be a bit better in PvP, and PvE gear a bit better in PvE. Don't see the problem. In my opinion if they wanna fix the whole PvP mess, they should just bite the bullet and normalize all gear so everyone has the same stats and ilevel, and make PvP gear cosmetic only.

  5. #45
    The real issue is damage compared to health. That's why resilience exists.
    Since player damage is way to high for the current health pools, damage against players has to be reduced, hence resilience was born.

    Can't wait for the item squish. Hopefully they remove all the stupid pvp stats and go back to vanilla styled gear then.

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