Thrall's fate in 5.3-5.4

[khalltusk]

He already has a son, which is why i think he could die in this patch. Blizzard loves to have history repeat itself and a fatherless young orc with a legacy to live up to would be right up their alley and his whole "look after aggra and my boy" line to vol'jin in 5.3 makes me wonder if thats going to happen.

I hope they don't as his child then nearly matches Thralls own story of his parent(s) being murdered.

Varian has a son and yet still lives though. We had one Racial leader die (cairne) and Garry is almost certainly going to end up as a lootable head. Lets not kill off Thrall :/ least not this expac

[Florena]

I hope they don't as his child then nearly matches Thralls own story of his parent(s) being murdered.

Varian has a son and yet still lives though. We had one Racial leader die (cairne) and Garry is almost certainly going to end up as a lootable head. Lets not kill off Thrall :/ least not this expac

I'm not saying Thrall should or shouldn't die. But having a dead father would be just one parallel between Thrall's story and his son's story. That is far from 'nearly matches' considering that the child would have his mother, and that he'd be growing up with his own people, knowing who his parents are. Unless he gets kidnapped and raised as a slave by the Alliance his story will most certainly not match Thrall's.

[luccadeo]

Honestly, I hope he gets killed.

[Florena]

I'm not particuraly partial to whether he lives or dies. I just hope if he lives he doesn't become warchief again.

If he lives, I'd like to see him as an orc racial leader, spiritual leader/teacher, or something else but not warchief. If he dies, I'm thinking having him killed while rallying the orcish people against Garrosh and becoming a martyr would be the best way to do it.

[Faroth]

I've long liked the idea of Thrall taking on a spiritual leader role and adviser to the Warchief. Seems appropriate for a shaman character.

[khalltusk]

I'm not saying Thrall should or shouldn't die. But having a dead father would be just one parallel between Thrall's story and his son's story. That is far from 'nearly matches' considering that the child would have his mother, and that he'd be growing up with his own people, knowing who his parents are. Unless he gets kidnapped and raised as a slave by the Alliance his story will most certainly not match Thrall's.

Ah but this is where they are similar.

Thralls father goes to warn doom hammer etc about the bad shit going down in the horde and how it was going to bring their people to ruin. He gets murdered after speaking out on it.

The horde then goes down a dark path and their people to the brink of ruin

Fast forward to today

Thrall goes to stop this happening just like his father tried if he dies and then the horde goes down the same path until garrys head is looted then its very similar story for his son. Albiet with one parent at least hopefully alive.

Thats the aspect that I would say would be the same/similar. The rest obvious would be different.

[Trassk]

I've long liked the idea of Thrall taking on a spiritual leader role and adviser to the Warchief. Seems appropriate for a shaman character.

The only way I can ever see that working, if Thrall was a lot older then he is now, and if it was his son or something he's had connection to, another orc, younger then himself.

[Florena]

Ah but this is where they are similar.

Thralls father goes to warn doom hammer etc about the bad shit going down in the horde and how it was going to bring their people to ruin. He gets murdered after speaking out on it.

The horde then goes down a dark path and their people to the brink of ruin

Fast forward to today

Thrall goes to stop this happening just like his father tried if he dies and then the horde goes down the same path until garrys head is looted then its very similar story for his son. Albiet with one parent at least hopefully alive.

Thats the aspect that I would say would be the same/similar. The rest obvious would be different.

Again though, one parallel doesn't mean the same story. Having Thrall die in a way similar to his father's death doesn't mean that Thrall's son couldn't have his own unique story. That one similarity wouldn't outweigh all the differences.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 10:39 AM ----------

The only way I can ever see that working, if Thrall was a lot older then he is now, and if it was his son or something he's had connection to, another orc, younger then himself.

I don't see why he couldn't. Sure, Thrall's not that old, but he is the horde's strongest shaman, and before he became Warchief, he had a more spiritual role as Doomhammer's second, helping his people snap out of the lethargy in the camps and bringing his people back to their cultural roots. If Doomhammer hadn't died I think Thrall's role in the Horde would have likely been something like this.

[Faroth]

The only way I can ever see that working, if Thrall was a lot older then he is now, and if it was his son or something he's had connection to, another orc, younger then himself.

And why can it not work now? Other than your insistence that Thrall, and only Thrall, can be warchief?

Obviously Thrall is likely to be the orc racial leader, but why couldn't he be advisor to a different warchief rather than warchief himself? It's been made clear that's a position he no longer feels appropriate in. He put aside the armor, he moved on from the self imposed shackles it burdened him with, and it's clear his desire is to have a family, not lead the Horde.

[khalltusk]

Again though, one parallel doesn't mean the same story. Having Thrall die in a way similar to his father's death doesn't mean that Thrall's son couldn't have his own unique story. That one similarity wouldn't outweigh all the differences.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 10:39 AM ----------



I don't see why he couldn't. Sure, Thrall's not that old, but he is the horde's strongest shaman, and before he became Warchief, he had a more spiritual role as Doomhammer's second, helping his people snap out of the lethargy in the camps and bringing his people back to their cultural roots. If Doomhammer hadn't died I think Thrall's role in the Horde would have likely been something like this.

I don't deny his son couldn't have his own story it just cheapens it all fuckery if they do. Thrall being dead means he doesnt see his son grow up, his son never knows his father (he will know of him of course) while no doubt being raised by his mother as part of the horde his fathers death is the same as his grand fathers. Its a repeat of the same story of how thrall grew up bar being a slave to humans.

Thralls greatest wish was to become a father, part of that is having a son the other major one is being apart of their life actively. Varian has not died and he has a son and is watching him grow up why can't thrall?

I would much rather see him come to the warchief role but with a heavy burden, his people shaken to their core the morale of the horde at an all time low and their enemies the alliance all triumphant. With him trying to hold the horde together rebuild his city and his people while at the same time being a father might be interesting. Some might say but hes already rebuilt his people yes he did, and now he would be alive to experience the loss and 1st hand sees how his people devolved into bloodlust so easily like they did in wc1 and 2 it could be quite interesting how they turn it around. These won't be lethargic orcs who forgot their past. These will be angry hurt orcs who want to lash out at everything around them.

[Faroth]

I don't deny his son couldn't have his own story it just cheapens it all fuckery if they do. Thrall being dead means he doesnt see his son grow up, his son never knows his father (he will know of him of course) while no doubt being raised by his mother as part of the horde his fathers death is the same as his grand fathers. Its a repeat of the same story of how thrall grew up bar being a slave to humans.

Thralls greatest wish was to become a father, part of that is having a son the other major one is being apart of their life actively. Varian has not died and he has a son and is watching him grow up why can't thrall?

I would much rather see him come to the warchief role but with a heavy burden, his people shaken to their core the morale of the horde at an all time low and their enemies the alliance all triumphant. With him trying to hold the horde together rebuild his city and his people while at the same time being a father might be interesting. Some might say but hes already rebuilt his people yes he did, and now he would be alive to experience the loss and 1st hand sees how his people devolved into bloodlust so easily like they did in wc1 and 2 it could be quite interesting how they turn it around. These won't be lethargic orcs who forgot their past. These will be angry hurt orcs who want to lash out at everything around them.

And what if some WITHIN the Horde blamed Thrall for it? Adds another layer of conflict to resolve while rebuilding.

Though I still don't know that Thrall needs to be warchief again. Like I said previously, a shaman adviser seems a good position, and if he's the orc racial leader, he'd still have that burden.

But I just feel like Thrall has been in the spotlight as the main focus for a while now and it's a good time for Vol'jin and Baine to step up.

[khalltusk]

And what if some WITHIN the Horde blamed Thrall for it? Adds another layer of conflict to resolve while rebuilding.

Though I still don't know that Thrall needs to be warchief again. Like I said previously, a shaman adviser seems a good position, and if he's the orc racial leader, he'd still have that burden.

But I just feel like Thrall has been in the spotlight as the main focus for a while now and it's a good time for Vol'jin and Baine to step up.

All interesting stuff.

I do want more focus on baine voljin and the other racial leaders. What they have done so far has been brilliant (the developers). I personally want to see more from baine though.

[Faroth]

All interesting stuff.

I do want more focus on baine voljin and the other racial leaders. What they have done so far has been brilliant (the developers). I personally want to see more from baine though.

The developers have indeed done a fantastic job with the Horde bringing all the races and their leaders into the story.

Hoping against hope the Alliance finally sees the same next expansion...

[khalltusk]

The developers have indeed done a fantastic job with the Horde bringing all the races and their leaders into the story.

Hoping against hope the Alliance finally sees the same next expansion...

You can't get better than the reagent lord flipping benches sorry!

did Valen turn up btw in 5.2 to heal Anduin? I hear that the dwarves are coming in (moira might get a larger part to play) would be nice to see them doing a bit more.

Have to admit the horde story since I switched back from alliance has been nothing short of brilliant. I think only Wrathions questline has been better (just slightly as hes an awesome character)

[Faroth]

You can't get better than the reagent lord flipping benches sorry!

Perhaps the pinnacle of all racial leader development?

did Valen turn up btw in 5.2 to heal Anduin?

Nope. Off camera, Anduin was just up and healed next patch.

I hear that the dwarves are coming in (moira might get a larger part to play) would be nice to see them doing a bit more.

Moira has a scene at the start and end of Blood in the Snow scenario, but I don't think it's much. It's the first step on the dwarves' getting more involved, I think.

Have to admit the horde story since I switched back from alliance has been nothing short of brilliant. I think only Wrathions questline has been better (just slightly as hes an awesome character)

Yeah, the Horde has gotten a hell of a lot of good development since, well, honestly, since TBC in my opinion. It's just been stellar in Cata and MoP.

[Talen]

honors stand? and all through out the southern barrens, just because they didn't take advantage of it as much as the horde did doesn't mean they didn't, which again I will say is just a smart move to get your enemy off guard. I really don't care how you feel about it.

<sigh>

The Alliance didn't attack because of the Cataclysm. They didn't take advantage of it at all. The entire Alliance war effort exists because Garrosh and the Horde launched a war. The presence or absence of the cataclysm was meaningless in that regard as far as Alliance involvement is concerned.

With no invasion of Stonetalon or Ashenvale, there'd be no need to support the Night Elfs in their campaign. Without that need, there'd be no reason to build that road. Without the road, the Alliance wouldn't be there. Did the Cataclsym makes the Alliances job easier? In part...it possibly did.

they weren't really at peace to begin with before Cata. you know, Wrath and all that.

Yes...as a matter of fact they were at peace. Even the conflicts in Warsong and Alterac and elsewhere had stopped

People hate Thrall now because there sheep. They jump on a hate wagon started by a few people and go with the flow, thinking they have an original opinion, but are just clinging to bad and negative principles without learning anything good that comes from the story or narrative.

People "hate" Thrall because he was over exposed in Cataclysm and written to be a Mary Sue and the focus of the game even when he had no legitimate reason to be. He showed up in quests where he wasn't wanted and had no business and he was given prominence simply for the sake of making him the star of the show. Think of him as being akin to the actress who is dating the producer of a show.

He was forced into the story simply for the sake of having him there.

There was no reason to make him end Benedictus' storyline instead of Varian or the Alliance.
There was no reason to make him the World Shaman.
There was no reason to make so wise and knowledgeable and powerful that the Aspects paled in comparison.
There was no reason to make him the focus of the Firelands patch when his role was minimal
There was no reason why another Shamans couldn't have taken his place in the ritual at the world tree.

And so on.

There was a reason to have him stand down in favor of Garrosh; set up for the War without "wrecking" his character by having Thrall act for his people. Beyond that, there was no reason to have him shoehorned into stories that didn't concern him.

EJL

[Faroth]

<sigh>

The Alliance didn't attack because of the Cataclysm. They didn't take advantage of it at all. The entire Alliance war effort exists because Garrosh and the Horde launched a war. The presence or absence of the cataclysm was meaningless in that regard as far as Alliance involvement is concerned.

With no invasion of Stonetalon or Ashenvale, there'd be no need to support the Night Elfs in their campaign. Without that need, there'd be no reason to build that road. Without the road, the Alliance wouldn't be there. Did the Cataclsym makes the Alliances job easier? In part...it possibly did.

Yes...as a matter of fact they were at peace. Even the conflicts in Warsong and Alterac and elsewhhere had stopped

EJL

To note further, the Horde had hunting rights and lumber rights granted to them by the Night Elves within Ashenvale and within reasonable limit. Only after the "Horde" (Twilight Hammer responsible, but neither faction has ever learned this) starting butchering Sentinels, skinning them alive, and painting the Horde symbol on trees with their blood, did the night elves cut off the Horde access to Ashenvale, block trade routes, and put Durotar in a very difficult position post-Cataclysm with the shortage of food and water.

Garrosh's immediate response was "Slaughter the elves and take what we want because it's our right to have it" to which Cairne, Thrall, and some others gave him the stink eye and told him to sit down and shut up for the moment.

Regarding peace before Cataclsym, yes, VARIAN WRYNN signed a peace treaty WITH the Horde after Northrend, which Garrosh used technicalities of a storm blowing a battered and broken Alliance ship into Horde waters as an excuse to slaughter the crew save a survivor or two who were to deliver a message to Wrynn that Garrosh was merciful and allowed them to live. :P

Garrosh started the war, but the Twilight Hammer beautifully ignited it.

"I've hired you to help me start a war. It's an prestigious line of work, with a long and glorious tradition."

[yetgdhfgh]

TBH when the devs let slip that thrall was coming back as warchief i did honestly believe it but now im certainly having second thoughts

Its certainly possible that maybe nazgrim will become the leader of the Orcs but the title of warchief will be retired

As for Thrall i do believe he is gonna die now and maybe his son will take over in a future Xpac

[Pendragon]

I just want him to go away.

[Faroth]

As for Thrall i do believe he is gonna die now and maybe his son will take over in a future Xpac

I don't expect an 10+ year time jump between expansions, so if that were to happen, it's gonna be a loooooooong wait.