Thrall's fate in 5.3-5.4

[LilSaihah]

People hate Thrall now because there sheep. They jump on a hate wagon started by a few people and go with the flow, thinking they have an original opinion, but are just clinging to bad and negative principles without learning anything good that comes from the story or narrative.

i learnt something good from wow's story
how not to write a character

j/k you can get that lesson from anything blizzard's putting out nowadays.

[KrazyK923]

People hate Thrall now because there sheep. They jump on a hate wagon started by a few people and go with the flow, thinking they have an original opinion, but are just clinging to bad and negative principles without learning anything good that comes from the story or narrative.

Or he's just a terrible character now because of Cataclysm.

But, no, it's because people just can't appreciate the AMAZING story of Thrall becoming the star of what was supposed to be a story of "Yay we're all coming together to stop deathwing. But wait! Thrall is Kamehame-ing Deathwing! Yay Thrall! Our Savior!"

[Anjerith]

Saurfang, Eitrigg? According to thrall and more importantly you they are still active.

No, both Saurfang and Eitrigg have had no impact on the in-game story in years. What Trassk means is a Orc character that is openly opposed to Garrosh *right now*. Active participation in the on-going lore.



As for Thrall somehow being tortured, ruined, destroyed, broken - I find it amusing that so many people simply did not understand the trials that he underwent in order to become the World-Shaman. I mean.. his soul was ripped to pieces and he was damned to all of the elemental planes.

"Oh, he wasn't there LONG before we rescued him." you say.


I say "How long is a day in an elemental plane, a minute?" We don't know. Furthermore, while the in-game method of showing the questline from start to finish was the work of thirty minutes, that is no indication of how long he was there in character time.

Thrall has suffered plenty.

[babo7000]

Or he's just a terrible character now because of Cataclysm.

But, no, it's because people just can't appreciate the AMAZING story of Thrall becoming the star of what was supposed to be a story of "Yay we're all coming together to stop deathwing. But wait! Thrall is Kamehame-ing Deathwing! Yay Thrall! Our Savior!"

Meh, hes not all wrong. A lot of people do hate characters that take on a protagonist role in this game, probably because it makes them feel less special and needed. I mean, people despise Varian and are beginning to hate Vol'Jin, literally just because they make more appearances than some other characters, even if there not taking the spotlight.

Every expac has had a character everyone loves to hate and complain about. However I will say Thrall has been the most justified, as his story and reasoning for appearing so often in Cata were pretty weak.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 12:24 PM ----------

No, both Saurfang and Eitrigg have had no impact on the in-game story in years. What Trassk means is a Orc character that is openly opposed to Garrosh *right now*. Active participation in the on-going lore.



As for Thrall somehow being tortured, ruined, destroyed, broken - I find it amusing that so many people simply did not understand the trials that he underwent in order to become the World-Shaman. I mean.. his soul was ripped to pieces and he was damned to all of the elemental planes.

"Oh, he wasn't there LONG before we rescued him." you say.


I say "How long is a day in an elemental plane, a minute?" We don't know. Furthermore, while the in-game method of showing the questline from start to finish was the work of thirty minutes, that is no indication of how long he was there in character time.

Thrall has suffered plenty.

Ah, but in the Elemental Bonds questline we see something very troubling about Thrall. He struggles with his Doubts and Anger. For someone who tries as hard as possible to be good, and go against the Orc stereotype, the torture endured from having these negative emotions amplified and powered by Sha would be horrendous.

Don't think everyone is implying physical torture for Thrall in SoO. The mental torture Sha corruption would cause to someone like him is brutal; Garrosh could try turning Thrall into everything he tried not to be, that could destroy the man.

[Anjerith]

Or he's just a terrible character now because of Cataclysm.

But, no, it's because people just can't appreciate the AMAZING story of Thrall becoming the star of what was supposed to be a story of "Yay we're all coming together to stop deathwing. But wait! Thrall is Kamehame-ing Deathwing! Yay Thrall! Our Savior!"

Pretty much all the proof you needed to show you didn't understand what he was doing, it wasn't some amazingly magical THRALLBLAST!! that saved the day, it was the combined powers of the Aspects, with Thrall being used by them to facilitate the role of the Aspect of Earth (which he couldn't become, just the defacto representation of that element).


The game has *never* been about us. Never. At no point did we ever kill any major villain directly, according to the in-game lore. Onyxia? Varian. C'thun? Cenarion Circle. Kael'thas? Killed by the Blood Elves. Illidan? Akama and Maiev. Yogg'Saron? The Explorer's League and the Keepers they freed. The Lich King? Tirion Foredring and the Ashen Verdict. Ragnaros? Cenarion. Deathwing? The Aspects and the Earth Warden.

As for Garrosh? You can bet your boots it is going to culminate with Varian fighting against him with the players in the Alliance version. You can also bet on Thrall helping the Horde players. The other faction leaders are likely to figure into it as well, but we arn't going to be rescuing Thrall just because of one line where he states "If I don't come back, Look after My Son and my Wife.". Do you guys even understand the world our characters inhabit? The one with insane Troll empires, dragons, Dinosaurs, little upright dogs with candles on their heads and Gnomes?? The potential to die unexpectedly is omnipresent.

There are no player characters in the game that are as powerful as the individual lore characters. I recognize we have much more badass armor, but that is just to feed our aesthetic egos. The World of Warcraft is driven by the NPCs, with players populating the roles of cannon-fodder, infantry and assault teams.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 12:40 PM ----------

Ah, but in the Elemental Bonds questline we see something very troubling about Thrall. He struggles with his Doubts and Anger. For someone who tries as hard as possible to be good, and go against the Orc stereotype, the torture endured from having these negative emotions amplified and powered by Sha would be horrendous.

While that is true, the lesson Thrall took from that questline was that he can rely on others to help him shoulder the burdens that weigh on his soul. Thus, Aggra. And, even though it went down this road, Garrosh and Vol'jin.

[Trassk]

I've been saying that to ages Anjerith, but some players (like Krazyk923) think its about him and his achievements and how thats what impacts the story.

And its because of that mentality that lore characters, protagonists, get shat on so much by the mulling populous.

Its perfectly alright if the lore characters do nothing and sit back well the players goes into dungeons and kills bosses. But you have 1 lore character standing against a boss and then the lore claiming that lore character got the kill, then its hate all round for that lore character.

Strange isn't it, when people have a lot to say but say so little.

also, whoever gets the kill on Garrosh, will be hated by everyone. Doesn't matter whoever it is, they will be hated.

[KrazyK923]

Thrassk loves to talk shit about people because they don't lay down and lick Thrall's balls, but loves to then ignore them when they won't go along with their narrative. That shows a lot of class. Best part is that the blatant hypocrisy of him turning around and bashing people who do the exact same thing to other characters (Like Garrosh) that he does to Thrall.

Strange isn't it, when people have a lot to say but say so little.

This fits Thrassk so well that I'm not sure how the ironic hypocrisy didn't just cause his brain to explode while he typed it.

Pretty much all the proof you needed to show you didn't understand what he was doing, it wasn't some amazingly magical THRALLBLAST!! that saved the day, it was the combined powers of the Aspects, with Thrall being used by them to facilitate the role of the Aspect of Earth (which he couldn't become, just the defacto representation of that element).

I understood his point in the story perfectly, thanks. Feel free to continue to talk down to me though. It doesn't change the fact that Thrall became the star when it should have been about other characters as well (And I never was talking about myself as a character/player, so keep beating on that Strawman). The fact that both you and Thrassk automatically devalue my opinion to "Clearly it means he wants it to be about himself" or "You just want characters to die as bosses in dungeons" shows that you have no idea what you're actually talking about.

The story needs to constantly be about Thrall. Even in an expansion where we thought he'd be gone because he knocked up the plotdevice---err Aggra and had a child. But, no, Thrall comes in for some of the most crucial moments of the 5.1 and 5.3 storyline, and now it's blatantly clear they're setting him up for a fake Heroic Sacrifice only to ride in and save the day after we rescue his ass in SoO. He'll give some heartfelt speech about how now that Garrosh is gone it should be peaceful, and the Alliance will be written to just agree and all leave, and Thrall will become the Orc leader while Vol'jin becomes Warchief. Despite the fact that Blizzard gave screentime to Vol'jin and Lor'themar in really awesome ways, Baine too to a lesser degree, it'll all be overturned by Thrall and how he saves everybody by making the Rebellion and Alliance come to their senses.

And the hackneyed storyline will be lauded by Thrassk as awesome for Thrall and how anybody who disagrees will be shouted down by him as an idiot, somebody who doesn't understand the story, or somebody who can't comprehend the amazing storytelling skills of the raid.

Also, I'm not sure where this supposed hatred for Vol'jin is coming from. The only thing I've really seen negative regarding him is not even his role, but the fact that the Alliance is bending down and taking it from him because Blizzard wrote the 5.3 story ridiculously stupidly from the Alliance's side. I personally love Vol'jin and his role in MoP. It's again some much needed screentime by other leaders of the Horde who aren't Green Jesus.

But don't let me stop you from beating that Strawman. Continue please.

[Trassk]

This fits Thrassk so well that I'm not sure how the ironic hypocrisy didn't just cause his brain to explode while he typed it.

Its funny how even when people tell you that you don't listen, you fail to here that even.

[KrazyK923]

Again, the irony, it burnses us. I've yet to see how you've ever explained how I'm not listening. Not listening is not the same thing as disagreeing. But I'm not sure you can understand that at this point, with how many times you've spouted this crap about me not listening.

I'm going to slightly vent for a second, though. I find it the epitome of hilarity that even when people disagree with me, I will usually not insult the person or imply that they are stupid for thinking what they do. You can disagree with me all you want, I couldn't care less. But I won't insult you like a 8 year old child. (And if I have, because I'm sure I did at some point, then I was wrong in doing it then.)

Continue on, Thrassk. Continue on, my friend.

[Absintheminded]

I like Thrall and I like his story. QQ.

[Trassk]

Instead your just trying to pass the buck into someone else, because instead of having a valid argument, your just trying to make people look the other way.

Anjerith and babo7000 make great points, but instead of having a debate, you just keep now saying 'Trassk loves Thrall, durrrr, I don't have an argument I'll just sling spitballs in the class'.

If you can't grow up and have a reasonable debate, at least try and validate what you have to say.

[KrazyK923]

Anjerith and babo7000 make great points, but instead of having a debate, you just keep now saying 'Trassk loves Thrall, durrrr, I don't have an argument I'll just sling spitballs in the class'.

Great points? You mean arguing me saying things I wasn't saying? Yeah, those are great points. I didn't address babo7000 because I don't disagree with what he had said. I guess you missed the second part about Thrall in his comment lol.

I also enjoy how you ignore the fact that I hadn't said a goddamn word about you until you opened your mouth and spewed your crap again. I honestly am baffled at how you act with such immature impunity while still being so immensely condescending. Perhaps I'll finally ignore you in return. It sounds like a good idea.

[MOEEEE]

Ha. Are you being funny, Thrall was a 100x better Warchief, than Garrosh.

[Trassk]

Great points? You mean arguing me saying things I wasn't saying? Yeah, those are great points. I didn't address babo7000 because I don't disagree with what he had said. I guess you missed the second part about Thrall in his comment lol.

I also enjoy how you ignore the fact that I hadn't said a goddamn word about you until you opened your mouth and spewed your crap again. I honestly am baffled at how you act with such immature impunity while still being so immensely condescending. Perhaps I'll finally ignore you in return. It sounds like a good idea.

you just don't like having someone tell you how wrong you are, and either choose to ignore them or try and throw something back at them.

I've never once seen you create a thread or have a decent debate with someone, it wouldn't be so bad if you at least tried to back what you say with reason and logic, instead of accusing people of doing what you are doing yourself.

[babo7000]

Im seeing two polar opposite sides of the spectrum here O.o

Thrall was overused, and in a very poorly written way in Cataclysm. You can not deny this. He appeared out of nowhere and became the strongest Shaman (Muln? Nobundo?), was the subject of a prophecy, and had immortal Titanic creations flocking to him for help. Now, had this all been explained it would have been forgiveable, but it literally went from Thrall being a quest giver in 4.0, to him being the focal point of the story in his next appearance. That, and the atrocious Elemental Bonds quest line (Fandral: If I kill you, which I have all the opportunity in the world atm to do so, we win. But instead im gonna be poetic and and put your spirit to the elements), which goes from healing the World Tree to Thralls wedding with no mention of the former.

That said, I do still like Thrall.

But he HAS to appear in MoP. Doesn't matter if you love him or hate him, anything that deals with the Horde, and especially Garrosh, is going to have Thrall in it. If he didn't appear just because people are tired of him, the dethroning of Garrosh and redemption of the Orcs (again), would make zero sense.

Don't think Blizz is gonna make him the hero again. They read feedback, they know the jokes everyone makes about Deathwing's death and Thralls role in it. That said, he is going to play an important role in 5.4, be it as us saving him or him helping us, its going to happen.

[KrazyK923]

you just don't like having someone tell you how wrong you are, and either choose to ignore them or try and throw something back at them.

I've never once seen you create a thread or have a decent debate with someone, it wouldn't be so bad if you at least tried to back what you say with reason and logic, instead of accusing people of doing what you are doing yourself.

Goodbye Thrassk. Keep living in your fantasy world. I won't be sad you're gone. I would suggest you take the advice that you keep saying I need to, but I know you won't. If you're looking for conversations to prove your second charge is absolute horseshit, look at either the Garrosh or Wrathion one I created. But I know you won't. In fact, if I recall correctly, you ran into that Garrosh thread, insulted me, proved your absolute bias, and failed to realize I was posing a question I had heard other people say and not actually making the argument you were insulting me about. People can even go read that here

Again, the greatest hilarity about the underlined things is you can't recognize the hypocrisy.

[Faroth]

Says this....

You should know by now the more morals one has, the more vulnerable that person is.

Has "I am the PALADIN" signature.

Irony.

[Trassk]

Im seeing two polar opposite sides of the spectrum here O.o

Thrall was overused, and in a very poorly written way in Cataclysm. You can not deny this. He appeared out of nowhere and became the strongest Shaman (Muln? Nobundo?), was the subject of a prophecy, and had immortal Titanic creations flocking to him for help. Now, had this all been explained it would have been forgiveable, but it literally went from Thrall being a quest giver in 4.0, to him being the focal point of the story in his next appearance. That, and the atrocious Elemental Bonds quest line (Fandral: If I kill you, which I have all the opportunity in the world atm to do so, we win. But instead im gonna be poetic and and put your spirit to the elements), which goes from healing the World Tree to Thralls wedding with no mention of the former.

That said, I do still like Thrall.

But he HAS to appear in MoP. Doesn't matter if you love him or hate him, anything that deals with the Horde, and especially Garrosh, is going to have Thrall in it. If he didn't appear just because people are tired of him, the dethroning of Garrosh and redemption of the Orcs (again), would make zero sense.

Don't think Blizz is gonna make him the hero again. They read feedback, they know the jokes everyone makes about Deathwing's death and Thralls role in it. That said, he is going to play an important role in 5.4, be it as us saving him or him helping us, its going to happen.

I certainly won't argue it, what they did in cataclysm was a mistake. They went overboard when it really wasn't needed, and I could make many suggestions on how they could fix it, like if they had to have Thrall be as strong as he was, have him just as horde and have malfurion as the standing of worlds greatest druid on the alliance side, so both forces follow either.

But, as you say, this comes back to Thrall, the horde breaking itself apart, he has to be involved in this, it would be ridiculous not to. And the fact remains whoever the next warchief will be, the orcs are going to find redemption once again because they were mislead. And so far I've not seen a single reasonable debate on who would be capable enough to do this for the orcs, except of course Thrall himself.

[McNeil]

All I want for Thrall is for him to die. Or atleast his family to die and he becomes the Thrall we loved in WC3.

That is all.

[babo7000]

I 100% support the death of Aggra.