5.3 dominant class

[Balduvian]

Stupidest thing I've read on these forums this year.

Most biased Warrior this year.

[Deleted]

Healer:
Monk healer due to getting second pvp trinket.


DPS:
Feral.
Ret.
Frost DK.
Mage.

Most other strong DPS classes get nerfed that is why those are next likely to be good along with some of them getting buffs like ret

[Deleted]

Mages, i've played since beta and nothing has changed there. Hope fire can make a return soon.

[ykza]

Did you see rogues in 5.0? They were barely a class. I find your accusation of favoritism ludicrous.

Yes because one patch of being average (face they weren't that underpowered) in 9 years shows how much blizz hates them right?

[Yvaelle]

Yes because one patch of being average (face they weren't that underpowered) in 9 years shows how much blizz hates them right?

Actually, rogues in 5.0 had the lowest representation of any class in any season of WoW. So yes, they were underpowered.

[Deleted]

Actually, rogues in 5.0 has the lowest representation of any class in any season of WoW. So yes, they were underpowered.

More likely that the FotM rerollers from cata couldn't deal with rogues being merely average/balanced and so they dumped their rogues en masse. Now that rogues can drop people in openers again and for some baffling reason still have smoke bomb they are as op as ever.

[Yvaelle]

More likely that the FotM rerollers from cata couldn't deal with rogues being merely average/balanced and so they dumped their rogues en masse. Now that rogues can drop people in openers again and for some baffling reason still have smoke bomb they are as op as ever.

There was something like 3 rogues in the world above 2200, anyway you look at that it wasn't average/balanced. Besides, rerollers don't stick around to broken classes once they break - all the FotM's had already become Warriors and Hunters in 5.0.

[Korgoth]

Most biased Warrior this year.

Coming from a guy who thinks warriors were fine in Season 5. Which is either massive stupidity or massive bias.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 07:51 PM ----------

FPS is the best Feral comp with 1.08% representation above 2200, which is exactly the same 1.08% representation that Arms/BM/Rsham has (top warrior comp). What Feral has that warriors don't is FMP, with another 1.08% 2200+ representation. The second and third place Warrior comps are Arms/BM/Disc and Arms/BM/Hpal - each with 0.43% representation. So Ferals have only moderately more comp diversity than Warriors right now.

Now, Druids are in a much better position than warriors, but that's because Resto, Feral, and Balance are all competitive specs right now. But the claim that warrior comps don't work as well as FPS and Jungle isn't true, all three KFC variants are provably as common as those top feral comps. There are lots of KFC-variant gladiators this season, warriors aren't terrible - but as Flaks pointed out the Defensive Stance buff is going to help them a lot.

Feral 3's comps:

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html

Warrior 3's comps:

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html


As for predictions about what the dominant class will be in 5.3, my bet is that since Frost Mages are currently the most populous 2200+ spec of any class, and Mages as a whole are the most populous class above 2200, and Mages aren't being nerfed while Priests (the next most populous class, Shadow being the next most populous spec) are - that mages will retain their title. I dislike that I sound like a broken record, but people always ask questions like this - the safe bet for a guarenteed high rating since vanilla has been frost mage - other imbalances come and go, but frost mages stay the same.

Now lets take into account the overall number of Warriors in Arena compared to ferals then look at those rep percentages again.

[Yvaelle]

Now lets take into account the overall number of Warriors in Arena compared to ferals then look at those rep percentages again.

Ferals make up 2.4% of global representation, but 1.9% of 2200+ representation. Arms makes up 3.5% of global representation, but 2.6% of 2200+ representation. In absolute terms, there are more Arms Warriors above 2200 than Ferals. Using the Popularity Quotient we came up with in another thread, by dividing 2200+ representation by global representation - we get Ferals at 0.79 PQ - Warrior at 0.74 PQ.

What this tells us:
- more Arms Warriors in WoW than Ferals
- more Arms Warriors above 2200 than Ferals
- marginally more Ferals above 2200 relative to their global representation than Warriors
= Ferals are barely more popular than Arms Warriors right now

Now, a better case for your warrior viewpoint is that while both specs are capable of gladiator titles this season - and there will be many gladiators of both - some Ferals will likely see Rank 1 this season, but I don't think we're going to see any Warrior rank 1's (maybe in 5s, but not 3s anyways). The Defensive Stance buff is going to change that next season though.

Warrior representation:
http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

Feral Representation:
http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

[Korgoth]

It's actually this season. It's going to be fun watching the ladder adjust. Bye bye thug cleaves.

[Carni]

Rogues and mages will still be dominant dps classes because Blizzard still favors them and will never give them any meaningful nerfs.

The nerf to PvP hurts rogues pretty badly and the changes to expose weakness is really going to effect our bottom like with anything beyond leather armor.

I agree with the statements on mages, fire and frost mages are still going to be the best burst classes around. DKs will still have a niche with necrotic strikes. Out of all the changes they help healers the most. Healers are already borderline omnipotent in a 1v1, now it seems they may take 2-4 people to reliably drop them. This is a pretty big failure on blizzard's part if it remains the case. I have no problem with skilled healers living for long amounts of time or even against multiple dps, I do however how a problem with how often they can just save themselves with low cd instant heals. The mana changes of course will effect this, the mass majority of healers still have large amounts of mana regen built in plus there are lots of mana regen pve trinkets that they could pick up, some that even give them flat amount of mana.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:31 PM ----------

Mages, i've played since beta and nothing has changed there. Hope fire can make a return soon.

Fire burst is among the strongest in the game when used with instant pyro procs, deep freeze and the guaranteed crit on frozen targets. When use with pom a fire mage can very quickly drop 3-4 pyro blast that can crit for up to 80k-100k in the span of a deep freeze.

[Flaks]

FPS is the best Feral comp with 1.08% representation above 2200, which is exactly the same 1.08% representation that Arms/BM/Rsham has (top warrior comp). What Feral has that warriors don't is FMP, with another 1.08% 2200+ representation. The second and third place Warrior comps are Arms/BM/Disc and Arms/BM/Hpal - each with 0.43% representation. So Ferals have only moderately more comp diversity than Warriors right now.

You're ignoring a crucial bit of information: how many druids are actually playing feral in arenas to begin with? Compare that to warriors and you realize that the spec is FAR AND AWAY better off than warriors AS A CLASS. Ferals are better at survivability, control, utility, mobility, anti-control and pretty much equal in burst; ergo they, like pretty much any other melee, are flat out better than warriors in most if not all regards in 5.2.

Also, while thug cleave is going to get hit hard because of the pvp power/rogue nerfs, hunters as a whole are going to be top tier despite the slight slap on the wrist they're getting. God comp is also going to be shat on. KFC isn't going to be much better off despite the warrior buffs simply because PHDk is flat out a better comp in every regard.

[Valedus]

The nerf to PvP hurts rogues pretty badly and the changes to expose weakness is really going to effect our bottom like with anything beyond leather armor.

I agree with the statements on mages, fire and frost mages are still going to be the best burst classes around. DKs will still have a niche with necrotic strikes. Out of all the changes they help healers the most. Healers are already borderline omnipotent in a 1v1, now it seems they may take 2-4 people to reliably drop them. This is a pretty big failure on blizzard's part if it remains the case. I have no problem with skilled healers living for long amounts of time or even against multiple dps, I do however how a problem with how often they can just save themselves with low cd instant heals. The mana changes of course will effect this, the mass majority of healers still have large amounts of mana regen built in plus there are lots of mana regen pve trinkets that they could pick up, some that even give them flat amount of mana.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:31 PM ----------



Fire burst is among the strongest in the game when used with instant pyro procs, deep freeze and the guaranteed crit on frozen targets. When use with pom a fire mage can very quickly drop 3-4 pyro blast that can crit for up to 80k-100k in the span of a deep freeze.

How is it a problem that a healer should be able to survive a single dps? Lol.

Also, lets count instant heals that are nukes.

Sham: Riptide.
Druid: Swiftmend, or Broccoli form Regrowth.
Paladin: Shock and WOG(takes a resource that takes a while to build, and Hpal are shooting down in Representation anyway.)
Monk: Do they even have an instant nuke heal?
Priest: Bubbles. Purgeable.

So... yeah. Also, a lot of those instant heals don't heal for much more than things like Devo Plague or CB or Obliterate hit for.

That doesn't include NS effects, but those have minute long CD's. You said short cooldown. It's not like healers never have to cast, and if that is the case, then you aren't purging enough or you aren't pressuring enough, bottom line.

[Deleted]

Compare that to warriors and you realize that the spec is FAR AND AWAY better off than warriors AS A CLASS.

Its Unfair I think to say your comparing Warriors as a CLASS to Ferals as only a Spec, we're talking about two different melee dps. Warriors only have one really viable spec. Arms. Its synonymous that when someone says warrior in a PvP situation they mean an Arms Warrior. But I personally think Warriors will be alot happier in 5.3 with the Dstance Buffs. Although they may need a tiny bit more control.

[Flln]

I'd say Shaman as healer and maybe Warrior in 5.3.

Not to hardcore when it comes to PvP so...

[Yvaelle]

You're ignoring a crucial bit of information: how many druids are actually playing feral in arenas to begin with? Compare that to warriors and you realize that the spec is FAR AND AWAY better off than warriors AS A CLASS. Ferals are better at survivability, control, utility, mobility, anti-control and pretty much equal in burst; ergo they, like pretty much any other melee, are flat out better than warriors in most if not all regards in 5.2.

Ya I eventually had to cover that in another post, because it was misleading to compare FPS / FMP directly to KFC-variants without talking about global and 2200+ representation. Once Warriors get the D-Stance buff though I suspect their survivability will be better than Ferals again - and it should be. Ferals should offer more utility (including potentially control) than Warriors - they are a hybrid, that's how they should be distinguished - and you can't adjust balance by giving one notably better damage than the other because nobody enjoys that. I could argue on the topic of mobility and anti-control though - warriors have a multitude of instant gap closers, root breaks, and near-immunity to fear - Ferals are immune to poly and hex which is pretty huge, but apart from that they are weaker than warriors on all mobility and anti-control fronts. I'd maybe call it equal, but certainly not a decisive advantage to ferals for mobility and anti-control - and warriors have better burst than ferals, which you didn't bring up.

Also, while thug cleave is going to get hit hard because of the pvp power/rogue nerfs, hunters as a whole are going to be top tier despite the slight slap on the wrist they're getting. God comp is also going to be shat on. KFC isn't going to be much better off despite the warrior buffs simply because PHDk is flat out a better comp in every regard.

KFC will definitely be improved by warrior defensive buffs - what KFC-variants lack is consistent spammable CC (since they don't often run with a Druid, because Trees are high maintenance and Arms/Hunter doesn't have the off-heals / dispels to survive a cc chain on their tree). The lack of consistent spammable CC means that most of the CC KFC does have gets thrown into the enemy healer (ie. Scatter-Trap, Healer vs. Healer CCs) - which means you rarely have much control over the enemy DPS - who tunnel the warrior. The D-Stance buff may as well be a -10% damage received aura as far as KFC is concerned (except against double caster comps, who could try to ride the hunter) - because pretty much all the damage KFC takes is directly into the warrior.

Not to say Hunter/DK/Healer isn't a better comp than Hunter/Arms/Healer right now - it is and it may still be - but KFC's will do significantly better after the patch, even if their population doesn't necessarily rise much because everyone would rather play Hunter/DK/Healer (which may happen, and what I think you mean when you say it won't be much better off, in terms of represenation).

[Droluxx]

Powershot dmg being nerfed by 25%, losing Blink strike, and CC is NOT a slap on the wrist. Don't let that 10% RAP buff fool you, Hunter sustained is borderline the WORST in the game. If enough people QQ to Holinka on twitter, he will cave in to the QQ. 5.3 notes are proof. Isn't it funny that to this day, Mages are still NEVER brought up?

Hell, I just scrolled through a topic complaining about WARLOCK Fear... LOL. Not one single person bothered to even mention the fact that poly can be spammed. On top of the fact that a Mage can 100-0 you. A hunter will NEVER 100-0 any decent player, even before the nerfs. They are demolishing Pure DPS damage, and not even TOUCHING hybrid's absurd damage. IE: Shadow, Ele. It seems Blizz devs literally have the concept of the game's class'/specs backwards. Things are going downhill, FAST.

[Valedus]

Powershot dmg being nerfed by 25%, losing Blink strike, and CC is NOT a slap on the wrist. Don't let that 10% RAP buff fool you, Hunter sustained is borderline the WORST in the game. If enough people QQ to Holinka on twitter, he will cave in to the QQ. 5.3 notes are proof. Isn't it funny that to this day, Mages are still NEVER brought up?

Hell, I just scrolled through a topic complaining about WARLOCK Fear... LOL. Not one single person bothered to even mention the fact that poly can be spammed. On top of the fact that a Mage can 100-0 you. A hunter will NEVER 100-0 any decent player, even before the nerfs. They are demolishing Pure DPS damage, and not even TOUCHING hybrid's absurd damage. IE: Shadow, Ele. It seems Blizz devs literally have the concept of the game's class'/specs backwards. Things are going downhill, FAST.

Ele shammies are nowhere near good for arenas right now for a reason, pretty terrible self-peels, very easy to train. I understand your gripe about shadow, but... shadow is getting nerfed, already.

What exactly do you think Ele and Shadow are supposed to do that Blizzard has backwards? Because, surprise surprise... it's damage.

[Droluxx]

Ele shammies are nowhere near good for arenas right now for a reason, pretty terrible self-peels, very easy to train. I understand your gripe about shadow, but... shadow is getting nerfed, already.

What exactly do you think Ele and Shadow are supposed to do that Blizzard has backwards? Because, surprise surprise... it's damage.

e.

Shadow Priests are hybrids, that happen to do absurd damage. They nerfed SP Healing last patch, which was a key to them being hybrids. 2 other utility abilities that contribute to them being hybrids(Swap/MD) were basically removed. Instead of toning down their damage, they remove/nerf what made them hybrids in the first place. Hence, me saying Blizzard has it BACKWARDS.

[Korgoth]

e.

Shadow Priests are hybrids, that happen to do absurd damage. They nerfed SP Healing last patch, which was a key to them being hybrids. 2 other utility abilities that contribute to them being hybrids(Swap/MD) were basically removed. Instead of toning down their damage, they remove/nerf what made them hybrids in the first place. Hence, me saying Blizzard has it BACKWARDS.

Might be backwards but its the right direction. The things that made them hybrids in the first place are not enough to carry a class with moderate damage and CC in this game. Better to have good burst and CC, and insignificant hybrid abilities, then powerful hybrid abilities and moderate burst and CC, as that combination never works out well.