Why have Prot palas not been nerfed?

[Deleted]

If your tank is the only one with BR. that would mean you dont have a Holypala WL hunter Dk or another druid in your raid. So that means you have 1 tankdruid and the rest of the raid is monk rougue shaman mage priest and paladin that is not heal.

even than its not impossible to rezz as a druid on alot of nh fights you two tank the boss, so no prob there. And if you raid heroic you should consider an extra class with br. there are 4 classes which can BR and 1 in holyspec if you have a druid giving him symbiosis. so thats 5. Its really rare to not have one. And NS is a 1min cooldown and a strong selfheal aswell. And lets not forget as a druid you can use rejuv in bearform while hotw is active and its not "that bad".

Maybe you only have 1 other CR and it is that guy that died

It is unlikely, but it can happen.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Maybe you only have 1 other CR and it is that guy that died

It is unlikely, but it can happen.

Back in Firelands/DS at times we had one CR in the ten man raid. And that guy died sometimes.

[Viromand]

Maybe you only have 1 other CR and it is that guy that died

It is unlikely, but it can happen.

Yeah. But still CR and remove curse are the least of our problems, and bufffing that would change nothing. IF you are the only one with CR use NS. IF your other CR dies all the time take NS. With RPS gear the difference between 2 NS heals is not that big compared to the 2min cd oh shit button.

[Harmzuay]

Also, get rid of dodge/parry gear.

I wouldn't be surprised if this happens in the next expansion. Blizzard likes the idea and its one less way for people that don't know any better to gimp themselves, not to mention the obvious loot table improvement for Normal/Heroic raiders.

[Pua]

Anyway, as stated time and again, because the Protpal raid utility/healing shows up on meters, people overlook the tangible benefits of other tanks. Nothing new, people see what they want to see and use selective info/data to prove or prop up a point. Still keeping the faith (lol, get it?!) that devs and balancers will approach upcoming changes from the point of bringing other tanks UP, not bringing monk/pal DOWN (and BACKWARDS towards passive/D+P style).

Being able to take care of your own health better than a healer can is wrong.

Flat out.

Pretty much every paladin argument on this thread that argues they're fine can be watered down to "don't nerf me, bro".

And you all know it.

[Demsi]

As a prot paladin myself i dont care how OP we are, we`re fucking boring to play and i am so sick of blizz not improving our gameplay and just making it brainless faceroll.

I dont care if we`re being nerfed, just atleast compensate for it, make prot paladins fun to play.

[Deja Thoris]

Being able to take care of your own health better than a healer can is wrong.

Flat out.

Pretty much every paladin argument on this thread that argues they're fine can be watered down to "don't nerf me, bro".

And you all know it.

Quit the rubbish comments. Paladins don't heal themselves more than healers do. Not even close. Theres valid complaints about prots and theres jealous bullshit. Your comment falls into the second category.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Being able to take care of your own health better than a healer can is wrong.

Flat out.

Pretty much every paladin argument on this thread that argues they're fine can be watered down to "don't nerf me, bro".

And you all know it.

We can only do a massive WoG about every 30 seconds.

SoI heals for about 25k every ~3 seconds (8k hps) at 10m levels of vengeance
SS does about 20k hps at 10m levels of vengeance (100k shield every 5 seconds)

If you are only taking damage that under 30k hps can out-heal, you aren't running in MoP raid content.

[Gutterking]

Being able to take care of your own health better than a healer can is wrong.

Flat out.

Pretty much every paladin argument on this thread that argues they're fine can be watered down to "don't nerf me, bro".

And you all know it.

this is bullshit. not even close to true unless you're running old ass content and even then if you don't have the veng to support it, it's not happening.

[Well]

We did Durumu with our Druid solo tanking it and our hpala specing to clemency. I am not aware of ppalas doing excessive raid healing though.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I am not aware of ppalas doing excessive raid healing though.

They don't. People that don't know how to mouse-over the entry in Skada/recount have no idea that only about 10-15% of the Paladin tank's healing was on the raid (and most of it went to somebody's voodoo gnomes or fire elemental).

[Deleted]

They don't. People that don't know how to mouse-over the entry in Skada/recount have no idea that only about 10-15% of the Paladin tank's healing was on the raid (and most of it went to somebody's voodoo gnomes or fire elemental).

But I have been told that paladins are like having an extra healer. Skada confirms this.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

But I have been told that paladins are like having an extra healer. Skada confirms this.

First I've heard of it.

[Deleted]

The problem with balance between tanks is not pure numbers. Tanks are quite balanced in that regard. The issue arises when paladin AM and utility is favored for ALL fights in a given tier. Paladins can plan well for burst damage (a LOT of bosses this tier) without popping a major cd; Druids and in a way DK's cannot. Adding in their utility and perhaps a bit of scewed balance with numbers (I do not know), makes paladins the most wanted tank.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

The problem with balance between tanks is not pure numbers. Tanks are quite balanced in that regard. The issue arises when paladin AM and utility is favored for ALL fights in a given tier. Paladins can plan well for burst damage (a LOT of bosses this tier) without popping a major cd; Druids and in a way DK's cannot. Adding in their utility and perhaps a bit of scewed balance with numbers (I do not know), makes paladins the most wanted tank.

That is the fault of the encounter designers, not of the class.

[Deleted]

The problem with balance between tanks is not pure numbers. Tanks are quite balanced in that regard. The issue arises when paladin AM and utility is favored for ALL fights in a given tier. Paladins can plan well for burst damage (a LOT of bosses this tier) without popping a major cd; Druids and in a way DK's cannot. Adding in their utility and perhaps a bit of scewed balance with numbers (I do not know), makes paladins the most wanted tank.

Well, a monks shuffle is stronger than a paladin SotR, a monks raid healing is stronger than a paladins raid healing, a monks dps is generally on the same level as a paladin / slightly higher. The only thing paladins have on top of the monk is the non-spec specific paladin abilities, a.k.a. the hands, LoH and DA, whereas monks got the kiting ability and snap ae threat and mobility that paladins lack.

The difference there is that the paladins abilities can be covered by brining another spec of paladin (pretty much every raid got a hpala nowadays)

So while all you said is true, it is strange that paladins are the hate objects, though in reality I do not think paladins/monks are the problems, it is dks and warriors.

[Deleted]

I miss the days when recount and skada had absorbs separated from healing... That alone would cut all the crying in half...

[Moshots]

I miss the days when recount and skada had absorbs separated from healing... That alone would cut all the crying in half...

you don't agree that were overpowered? We run double paly tanks in 10 man right now but with me gearing a monk in anticipation of nerfs Even before the SOTR nerf the plan was me to go to monk for 5.4 cause we knew paladins would be nerved somehow there Way too OP. Guarantee next tier there is not 1 stacking buff that can be BOP'ed or bubbled. And we will go back to HOF style 1/2 of the fights having physical damage instead of magic.

[Deleted]

you don't agree that were overpowered? We run double paly tanks in 10 man right now but with me gearing a monk in anticipation of nerfs Even before the SOTR nerf the plan was me to go to monk for 5.4 cause we knew paladins would be nerved somehow there Way too OP. Guarantee next tier there is not 1 stacking buff that can be BOP'ed or bubbled. And we will go back to HOF style 1/2 of the fights having physical damage instead of magic.

How come having bopable stacks makes paladin tanks specifically OP? Any tank can do the same thing with a retri/holy paladin in the raid group.

However, other tanks have the capability of completely avoiding recieving certain stacks with extremely high dodge cds aswell as compeltely avoiding magical stacks. So while a paladin tank can bop himself off, say a dk tank can avoid some magical stacks and with another paladin in the raid accomplish the exact same thing as a paladin can.

In the same fashion, monks and druids can with their dodge cds semi-reliable avoid some physical and magical stacks, aswell as before, with a paladin in the raid accomplish the same thing as a paladin.

Really, running double paladin tank is far from optimal, if you even honestly believe that is the strongest tank combo, then your mind is extremely clouded and you have no real ability to analyze logs and class abilities.

I do not deny that having 1 paladin or 1 monk is pretty much mandatory to have a really really strong tanking combination, however I do not understand all this 'nerf' paladin, why can't you see it from the other side, maybe time to buff dks/warriors? (They actually really do not need buffs as much as an a complete ability and active mitigation rework, how the class works, and warriors need damage buff)

[Moshots]

How come having bopable stacks makes paladin tanks specifically OP? Any tank can do the same thing with a retri/holy paladin in the raid group.

However, other tanks have the capability of completely avoiding recieving certain stacks with extremely high dodge cds aswell as compeltely avoiding magical stacks. So while a paladin tank can bop himself off, say a dk tank can avoid some magical stacks and with another paladin in the raid accomplish the exact same thing as a paladin can.

In the same fashion, monks and druids can with their dodge cds semi-reliable avoid some physical and magical stacks, aswell as before, with a paladin in the raid accomplish the same thing as a paladin.

Really, running double paladin tank is far from optimal, if you even honestly believe that is the strongest tank combo, then your mind is extremely clouded and you have no real ability to analyze logs and class abilities.

I do not deny that having 1 paladin or 1 monk is pretty much mandatory to have a really really strong tanking combination, however I do not understand all this 'nerf' paladin, why can't you see it from the other side, maybe time to buff dks/warriors? (They actually really do not need buffs as much as an a complete ability and active mitigation rework, how the class works, and warriors need damage buff)

Have you killed heroic Dark animus? just curious for you to basically call me out for my opinion that double paladins is strong this tier. I never said they were the strongest I believe Paly/Monk is BUT when we recruited our 2nd paladin we were 8/13hm I found us a 2nd paladin purely to finish this tier with the idea if he passed his trial I would swap toons to fix our comp. Primo=paladin strongest tank according to basically everyone. DA=double paly+DK =best 3 tank easy mode setup triple aura master=easy mode. Twin's is a joke and we didn't even think that we would like 5 shot it when we finally tried it. Ra-den is 1 tank with paladins as the strongest tank.

Heroic Lei Shen is the only fight that double paladin actually hurts you a little Not having provoke and the extra 50-100k dps from a Monk Main tank on that fight is pretty shitty. And with the BOP thing most fights require 2 BOPs which can be done with a ret paly (no one uses a ret in 10 man there dps is crap and there utility really isn't worth wasting a spot that should be a rogue/dk) and holy paladins have to use double BOP over purity to do these things which is losing a mini CD that a lot of holy paladins like to have. Paladin tanks lose nothing. Requiring a paladin for a fight is a bad design Much like DK's being able to AMS heroic dark animus stacks is a very bad design..