Page 14 of 16 FirstFirst ...
4
12
13
14
15
16
LastLast
  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Yourcatdead View Post
    It was painful because of other players. And they couldn't cope with how "difficult" doing something simple like a a polymorph was. So Blizzard wrecked all difficulty, and any chance of ever having to use a small part of your brain in a heroic.
    Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue tends to force design decisions like that. I doubt you talk more loudly than all that cash.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.
    And most people seemed to catch on rather quickly. The ones that didn't?

    a) emo's who leave at the first wipe
    b) emo's who can't abide the idea of a healer having to refresh after every other pull.

    Stonecore, admittedly, was hell on tanks. And the one encounter where players had to block lasers, and then move out in time was also pretty tricky the first few times. The rest though? Just like everything else in this game, once you learned what to do, it wasn't that bad.

    Troll 5's were just as difficult, and folks seemed to adapt to them even quicker.

  3. #263
    Stood in the Fire Rickarus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    One major thing is the raids, too short, not very enjoyable in comparison to earlier (and later) raids, and it took far too long between getting new ones.

    Another was the difficulty jumps, compared to wotlk dungeons->heroics (easy->easy) and BC (difficult->difficult) the jump of easy->difficult was not something that people were ready for, and left people with a bad taste in their mouth from the get-go, the same can be said with normal to heroic rads, the first tier was the biggest culprit of it, with the jump from normal modes to hard modes being a far bigger jump than in WotLK, causing people to get frustrated, and then with the next two tiers, the difficulty of hard modes was not that bad, with the exception of the end bosses which were unproportionally more difficult than the rest.

    But the biggest factor, in my eyes, was the fact that there was simply nothing to do, dailies were all but pointless for a raider, running heroics for valor was largely unneeded for raiders, and the raids were so short that if you weren't progressing on a boss, you were through it in a couple hours at most.

  4. #264
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    A little south of sanity
    Posts
    5,252
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue tends to force design decisions like that. I doubt you talk more loudly than all that cash.
    I doubt all the subs lost were due to heroics being more challenging, I know people who quit just because the leveling sucked and the overall design of the zones were bad, not to mention how many people were pissed off about phasing and not being able to help friends or collect ore/herbs.

  5. #265
    I liked Firelands. Varied and interesting mechanics and whatnot with a really solid endboss. Dragon Soul was... Not so good. T11 was cool!

    I certainly liked Cataclysm's content as individual pieces, but there really wasn't much to tie anything together. Unless you used an external source, there was no indication that BWD or To4W even existed. The zones themselves were gorgeous with solid storylines, but there wasn't any kind of overarching plot to the game; in WotLK, in every single zone, you pushed towards taking down either LK or Yoggy, whereas in Cata the most consistent element of the levelling zones is... Black swirly metal spikes. And spooky twilight guys with, uh, no discernable motive?... Other than DESTROYING THE WORLD MWAHAHA? yeah real compelling villains there

    And it doesn't help at all that they spent so much effort on redoing the levelling zones. While they were good, their implementation definitely detracted from the endgame, which is what 99% of the vocal population show up for.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  6. #266
    I thought the raids were okay, but the lack of anything interesting to do outside of raids just made many people--including myself--lose interest. Granted I didn't quit but was considering it for the first time in my entire WoW career.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    You kind of answered your own question. If it's the least favorite in the polls and also one of your least favorites than it's safe to say it was the worst expansion haha. Some other guy was right, it had so much potential, I think that's why we are all trying to wrap this one together. It had a lot of stuff that could seem cool, it was just simply not as fun. Say it's an old game or whatever, a lot of us were gung-ho about WoW still going into it. The game shifted when most of the ratings from PvP were removed, having to suffer the repercussions of the LFG Tool and the introduction of LFR (where we are now dealing with those repercussions). The game changed in negative ways among it's most devout players. "Cataclysm" became a pun.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    Posting my opinion on it, Cataclysm was terrible because of the following:

    -Revamp of old zones made it feel like you were on rails. Granted some of the quests were entertaining, but it didn't feel like I was in a world anymore. It felt more like a very guided, babysat questing experience.

    -Grim Batol was a HUGE let down for me. I read the lore on it, and in my mind I expected something darker and more of a feel of the mines of Moria (LotR) not a terrible rehash of Ironforge with a crappy faceless one as the last boss. Karazhan felt darker and more foreboding than Grim Batol.

    -Voice acting was TERRIBLE. The intro to Hyjal made me cringe, it felt like a cheap Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. Do I have to mention Hagara the Stormbinder? How about the end boss in Stonecore "feel the fury of DERP..I mean EAAARTH (taking a dump)" It really disengaged me from the game.

    -Blizzard did not release all of the dungeons/raids they had planned. I was terribly let down with how they left Vashj'ir storyline hanging. Also, The Well of Eternity was another colossal let down for me. I was expecting a raid. Heck, I was expecting to fight Azshara at some point and not in a crappy 5-man dungeon way where she leaves us to her lackeys. Nevermind the absence of major lore characters from the Well of Eternity (the Houndmaster, Sargeras, etc) aside from Azshara.

    -Uldum, the entire zone was crap. One giant Indiana Jones fanfic. Nothing really epic occurred there. (Don't bother mentioning the Al'Akir raid, it too was pathetic). You figure the elemental LORD OF AIR would have a zone the size of Ragnaros's domain, and we get nothing. It was amazing in concept and then poorly executed. Additionally, just the entire zone felt like a huge let down. Aside from the reasons given, I can't really put my finger on it but it just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like it even properly concluded the original discs of Norgannon questline nor did the busted hole in the tiny door match up. Sure Blizzard can just say "cloaking device magically failed due to Deathwing" but that felt like a very cheap cop-out.

    -Overall, the entire expansion felt very rushed and under-budget.

  9. #269
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    One with the Light
    Posts
    5,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Because it's freshest in everyone's mind, while being easily compared to the excellence of MoP. It's actually kind of interesting how it's worked out:

    During TBC: 'omg TBC sucks, give back vanilla'
    During WotLK: 'omg WotLK sucks, give back TBC'
    During Cataclysm: 'omg Cata sucks, give back WotLK/TBC'
    During MoP: 'haha Cata sucked didn't it, glad it's gone'

    ...Wait what? Combo-breaker! It actually speaks volumes as to the quality of MoP when there's barely any QQ on the forums about the expansion, and people prefer it to the previous one.

    The thing is, Cataclysm gave us a lot of amazing things that really changed the way we play the game: reforging, the old world content update, transmogrification, 10/25 mans giving the same loot, guild achievements, and more. The problem is that it was very easy for people to latch onto the idea of 'lol rehash', when really... barely anything was getting re-used. Let's go through the list:

    1. Old world content update: sorely needed. It's far better now.
    2. Nefarian/Onyxia: completely different boss fight, just happens to be people we've already killed before.
    3. Ragnaros: same as above. Also this boss fight is seen as a high quality fight in heroic.
    4. ZA/ZG: ZG was COMPLETELY different, just happened to be set in the same place as the old raid. ZA was more similar to its previous version, but still had a few differences.
    5. Dragon Soul: yeah, it had some bits set in Wyrmrest temple, but that's all it was. And it made sense that it was set there, lore-wise.

    The stuff we got was high quality in Cataclysm. The problem was that there wasn't enough of it, and people focused on this dumb 'rehash' idea. It also kinda sucked that we ended on a fairly mediocre raid. Not as bad as people say, but it could've been better. But hey.
    In my personal opinion Cataclysm is the worst expansion of them all...and no it's not because of as you said rehash thingy. It's because the overall content for max lvl wasn't enough it's a great expansion for alts and for visiting the renew Azeroth quests from lvl 1 to 60 but for max lvl? it has the least of content ever compare to other expansions. Least raids tiers, least dungeons, and least things to do while in max lvl compare to other expansions.

    Yes it gave us some cool features like reforge and transmog (Transmog in my opinion is the best feature ever happens in wow been waiting for it for so long)

    but in term of gameplay + raids quality it wasn't very good specially the end tier raid content for example....you really can't compare Dragon Soul raid to BT, or ICC really and no a lot of ppl hated DS not because it stays very very long but because it's quality was really low... barely any new evirment inside DS raid.

    The main problem with Cata that they spend most of their efforts of remaking the old worlds but when it comes to max lvl content (I'm not talking about raids only) it really lacks so much compare to other expansions.

  10. #270
    Deleted
    Because some people focus on the bad rather than the good. It was a balanced expansion for me, I liked parts and I hated parts, but it was enjoyable.

  11. #271
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,750
    Quote Originally Posted by hanketsu View Post

    -Uldum, the entire zone was crap. One giant Indiana Jones fanfic. Nothing really epic occurred there.
    The whole expansion I was waiting for another raid to be there. The MASSIVE structures there that were unused. The place looked amazing and nothing happened there? It felt like a giant wasted space. A Ulduar-esque raiding was begging to be done there.

  12. #272
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    @OP u really enjoyed 2hour heroics?
    Godamn, you must really suck at this game if it took you anything over 30mins, and I'm being generous.

    And yes, I preferred the pre nerf heroics where CC and a decent of amount of knowledge was needed to finish it. It's a good learning curve to step in raiding for new players as well.

  13. #273
    From a personal perspective, I enjoyed Cataclysm up to 4.2. Challenging 5 man was interesting. Tier 11 and 12 were both great with the exception of Ascendant Council HC on 10 man, and Rhyloth in general since that boss's turning is weird at times. I honestly don't understand why people hate Firelands, except when you had to farm for Dragonswrath even when you had heroic Ragnaros on farm status, because it got boring. Tier 13 was absolutely terrible and I didn't enjoy over half the fights on HC while they were relevant. The sourness reached a peak with Madness and Spine, both of which were hard but for the wrong reason.

    Outside of raids, I agree with what most people have stated already: the Zones were just disconnected. While this was convenient, it removed a lot of experience essential in RPGs. Deathwing is just a bad boss in general that lost most of its personality built up since Warcraft 2.

    My feeling for Wow is like this : TBC>Wrath> Vanilla> Cata.

  14. #274
    For me, story is key to WoW. I am a lore nerd and love progressing my character each new story line. This is why I was so excited to have Cataclysm. An expansion where we get to delve deep into the history of the dragons and help to take down Deathwing. Also, we get to see Deathwing, one of the most bad ass, cunning villains ever in the Warcraft universe burst forth for revenge. Maybe my hopes were too high, but I received none of that. We saw no scheming from the master of schemes. He was just "THIS WORLD WILL BURN!" when through history he has always been far more cunning and methodical than that. It was just a big let down.

    Big dragon + pew pew + Thrall blah blah blah = Cataclysm and that is pretty much it.

    That is why Cata is the worst for me. It's story fell flat. Deathwing, who should've been the most bad ass villain was never even really seen scheming or plotting our subtle, yet total downfall. Such a waste of a great villain and an awesome, dragon filled storyline. Oh and dont get me started on the travesty that was the War of the Ancients. We were told it would be this massive outdoor raid and really do justice to one of the biggest moments in Warcraft history. It was a cruddy little 5 man that took no time to clear. Another disappointment and another waste of a fantastic storyline.

    Cata did still have it's moments. For me, going about getting my mage main the legendary was, for me, the greatest part (storywise) of that expansion. Being a part of the naming of a new Blue Aspect was jaw dropping for me. Also pwning Rag on his home turf was satisfying. That's about it.

  15. #275
    Warchief Statix's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,188
    Cataclsym was bad for a lot of reasons. They changed a lot of classes. Mage for example. The Fireball glyph changed from crit to haste. Pre-Cataclysm, but with all the changes implemented in WotLK, the difference wasn't noticable. But once Fire Mages hit level 85, they sucked balls. No crits, no Pyroblast, no DPS. And the best part is, they barely fixed it. I remember Fire being so broken in Firelands I actually quit my Mage and leveled a Hunter.

    Cataclysm is where Blizzard got lazy. In WotLK there were constant class fixes. In Cata, Fire Mages were broken up until Dragon Soul. Dragon Soul was a crappy raid. It wasn't epic. We didn't even really get to fight Deathwing, just some stupid tentacles. In the end, what did we really do? Ragnaros was the fight Deathwing should have been. It was epic, Ragnaros is epic. Deathwing was a pussy. Where was he the entire expansion? Occasionaly flying over the map killing everyone?

    The Lich King was present in so many Dungeons and Raids, you really felt his presence, the threat he posed. ICC is still the greatest raid ever created, simply because of the variety of bosses, but still it felt complete. The Lich King's monolog when you enter ICC; amazing. I can still get goosebumbs when I enter ICC. The trailers for WotLK were also a lot better. "Let them come, Frostmourne hungers!", arguably the best WoW quote out there.

    ICC had 12 bosses, but on a farm night, it would take just as much time as clearing DS's 8 bosses. Blizzard just made fights lenghtier to make it seem as if the raids are as long as they were in WotLK because they ran out of ideas. Again, laziness. Leveling in Cataclysm was also a step down. I looked forward to my new talent point when I leveled. In Cata I had to level 2 levels before I got one.

    Wrath of the Lich King was considered a step down from The Burning Crusade when it was released, but when Cataclysm hit, everyone loved Wrath of the Lich King. People said everyone would love Cataclysm aswell, once Mists of Pandaria was released. But that didn't happen. WotLK was bashed because it wasn't TBC, people just wanted TBC back. Cataclysm was simply a bad expansion.

    Mists of Pandaria is a huge improvement, but the laziness of Blizzard is still there. Just the insane amount of dailies proves this. They are trying to make the game seem lengthier by just adding a lot of the same shit. Countless of dailies to farm rep. It litteraly takes you months to complete.

    WoW has a reversed design process. Where other games become more refined and more complicated, WoW becomes crude and easy. WoW is being dumbed down. Now that I think of it, the perfect comparison is the WWE. It used to be amazing in the Attitude Era, but once we entered the PG era, it's barely a shadow of its former self. Why? Because it started to focus on kids. WoW is doing the same. It isn't honoring it's loyal players by keeping the game a challange, no, they are making it easier. Less talents, because there were cookie cutter builds. Blabla, they are still there. It's just easier to switch talents now. Had they made it that easy in WotLK, it would have been exactly the same as it is now.

    Cataclysm is the John Cena of WoW.
    Last edited by Statix; 2013-05-02 at 10:29 AM.
    Statix will suffice.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    Excuse me, sir but:

    1.- You're a liar
    2.- You didn't play Cata's HC dungeons AT THE BEGINNING before the massive nerf. I did. And it was p-a-i-n-f-u-l.

    Why it was painful?: because we pass from the AOE grindfest of WOTLK dungeons to 'things' like 'Crowd Control', 'Stuns', 'Polymorph', 'Saps', etc, etc. 'Things' that nearly 90% of the friggin' players had forgotten.
    i played them and cleared all of them the 2nd day of cata (first day was lvling day ). some of them we had to enter manually cuz we had to low ilvl.. just because retarded randoms in lfd couldnt clear some dungeons doesnt mean they were hard. i think they were easy.. heroic 5mans was for instance easier then normal raid content, and way easier then heroic raid content.
    if you dont believe me go check up achievements. even the dugneon hero achiev only took a fiew days (mostly due to vancleef vindicator achiev)

    now bragging aside sure i agree heroics was harder then wraths, and mops. but that still doesnt make them hard and i stand by my opinion that i whould have liked them harder (lfd be damned). I enjoyed tbc heroics, in fact i enjoyed them almost more then i did the raids. but i seem to be a minority in my views that harder content gives you more satisfaction beating then easy content.
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2013-05-02 at 11:52 AM.

  17. #277
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    6,750
    It's been the worse expansion:

    It simply has nothing good with it atm.

    Lorewise. (Worse part of the lore ever in Warcraft, agreed by most)

    Changing Azeroth is something that many of us still don't like, some things are good, but most of it isn't for us. That sure was a high risk which come with a price, but I don't blame them for doing it, it's good to make changes, for good or for bad.

    Dungeons.. a lie. Coming out like (we give you hard stuff again! only to nerf is a week later) Raids weren't that good either.

    The greatest rise bot-wise we've ever experienced in the game didn't help it neither.

    Being the last X pack..., therefore the one everyone hates the most as always.

    Dragon Soul, we still have nightmares with DS, is... is it over .. yet :S!?


    I personally liked many things of it, but mostly disliked it. WotLK was the worse thing we had seen till Cata, but at least the lore going on was plain epic, the quests were also plain better than in Cata, raids weren't that good, in fact it was the worse part of WotLK, but at least we had Ulduar and ICC, vs only one in Cata which could save it, Firelands.


    It's not like "it was the last X pack so we just hate it". The fact is that many people enjoy MoP more than Cata and some even more than WotLK. Also, check the incredible amount of pools out there, people put BC, Classic, MoP and WotLK ahead of Cata.


    The pros. MoP is showing that they have learn. They no longer give epics nor reputation away for free, that's really important. (Being an epic the latest raiding HC [or even normal] loot).

    LvL up is getting nerfed by 30%, but it's come on time, not too early and too late. So till now you had to work it out to get alts up!

    Quests have keep improving, tehy were good in Cata imo.
    Last edited by shise; 2013-05-02 at 11:59 AM.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Statix View Post
    Cataclsym was bad for a lot of reasons. They changed a lot of classes. Mage for example. The Fireball glyph changed from crit to haste. Pre-Cataclysm, but with all the changes implemented in WotLK, the difference wasn't noticable. But once Fire Mages hit level 85, they sucked balls. No crits, no Pyroblast, no DPS. And the best part is, they barely fixed it. I remember Fire being so broken in Firelands I actually quit my Mage and leveled a Hunter.
    u should have rolled arcane dude was awesome in firelands.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Because some people focus on the bad rather than the good. It was a balanced expansion for me, I liked parts and I hated parts, but it was enjoyable.
    People focus on the bad rather than the good? So, Classic, Burning Crusade, and Wrath are all rose-tinted goggle nostalgia-fests, while Cataclysm is somehow reverse nostalgia? Because all over the boards, when someone says they miss 1.0-3.3.5 (classic - end of wrath), they get trolled with "rose-tinted goggles" and "nostalgia" responses.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    @OP u really enjoyed 2hour heroics?
    What two hour heroics? I solo queued the vast majority of my dungeons as a healer and a DPS with a large majority of runs being around an hour with the bad ones being about an hour and a half which is what I was used to from playing all the way back in Classic and BC. If I was in a group that did not want to work together and it was destined to fail then I took the reasonable choice to leave the group and requeue. Dang I remember PuG groups at WotLK launch that took over an hour and even joining some that was on their third hour. So many players was blinded by rose tinted glasses from face rolling old dungeons that they massively out geared for a year. Going from end of the expansion outgearing old content to a brand new expansion with gear resets and only content being available is the current content was too much of a shock for many. Just like previous expansions MoP is no different and there was posts of players QQing that their epics are so easily replaced.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-05-02 at 12:14 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •