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  1. #281
    Cataclysm had a lot of recycled content. If you look at Blackwing Descent, it is essentially Blackrock Depths/Blackrock Spire/Blackwing Lair all over again, in terms of art and enemies (they even re-re-revive Onyxia). Firelands felt a little more fresh, but Ragnaros is not anything new. Dragon Soul re-used Dragonblight and Wyrmrest assets, and every boss had this "ho hum, done this before" feel to them -- this was all made worse by the fact that the raid lasted so long (real time).

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    What two hour heroics? I solo queued the vast majority of my dungeons as a healer and a DPS with a large majority of runs being around an hour with the bad ones being about an hour and a half which is what I was used to from playing all the way back in Classic and BC. If I was in a group that did not want to work together and it was destined to fail then I took the reasonable choice to leave the group and requeue. Dang I remember PuG groups at WotLK launch that took over an hour and even joining some that was on their third hour. So many players was blinded by rose tinted glasses from face rolling old dungeons that they massively out geared for a year.
    I remember my first heroics in WotLK. They were absurdly easy. My first ever heroic was HoS, and it took about an hour... when everyone was undergeared and clueless. My second heroic was CoS, and we got the drake with ease. Every run thereafter was simple; the curve was maybe a day. For Cataclysm, it lasted until at last 4.1 on my server.

    Part of the problem is that they drastically changed healing, and if your group's healer wasn't good under the new system it made everything absurdly painful. If you were one of the healers who adapted quickly, then you solved at least half of the problems most groups faced on your own.

  3. #283
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Godamn, you must really suck at this game if it took you anything over 30mins, and I'm being generous.

    And yes, I preferred the pre nerf heroics where CC and a decent of amount of knowledge was needed to finish it. It's a good learning curve to step in raiding for new players as well.
    CC. Raids. I keep seeing people put them together, but I so rarely see them together in the game. It's a point people bring up that's just never been relevant. 5 man dungeons do not, and cannot teach people or lead them into raiding; encounters can't be complex enough and cannot last long enough to execute proper rotations and mechanics simply because of composition and by extention utility shortage simply wont allow it. That's pretty much why I actually dislike 5 man content.

    Cataclysm was bad, because the end game was so self evidently rushed, and frequently broken. Things that made it hard for a lot of guilds were purely compositional issues, whereby having a certain classes on an encounter would literally be the difference between success and failure.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2013-05-02 at 12:45 PM.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    u should have rolled arcane dude was awesome in firelands.
    That was another problem with Cataclysm: I don't want to be forced to use a spec. I wanna be able to choose. I wanted to be Fire, because that's what I love about Mage. I don't like Arcane.
    Statix will suffice.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Godamn, you must really suck at this game if it took you anything over 30mins, and I'm being generous.

    And yes, I preferred the pre nerf heroics where CC and a decent of amount of knowledge was needed to finish it. It's a good learning curve to step in raiding for new players as well.
    And you're delusional if you think anyone was getting through something like Stonecore or GB in quest greens in under 30 minutes. And I'm being generous. In fact, just the queue to get IN as dps was often a 45 minute wait.

    I preferred them as well, but hyperbole doesn't lend anything positive to this discussion.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    You've seen "old timers" quit in every expansion. And DS might have seemed lazy, but it honestly wasn't, it made perfect sense storywise for it to take place the places it did.
    The story was terrible and blatantly made up after the fact to somehow justify sticking the players into the reused environments

  7. #287
    That's because we haven't hit the wall yet. But seeing as theres probably 2 more patches for MoP it's gonna be the same thing soon.

  8. #288
    I endured it, but the unpolished presentation of an unexciting story driving painfully difficult PvE content drove millions away.

    About a third of my guild left. Interestingly, most of them returned -- and have stayed -- for Mists.

  9. #289
    I miss the days of Cata pre-nerf Heroics. You could hardly ignore anything and you'd have to CC like a mother.

    It truly felt like you weren't meant to be there, you're weak and your character isn't strong enough. It felt like I had to rely on a team! Group effort!
    It was the only time I think I was ever nice to people and gave any advice in chat.

    But yeah I think the community really split in Cata and Blizz was trying to appease both parties which made the quality of the content suffer.
    First half of Cata good followed by the unending shit torrent that is LFR and Dragon Soul.

  10. #290
    Mechagnome
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    heroic ragnaros before nerfs only good thing about cataclysm...

  11. #291
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue tends to force design decisions like that. I doubt you talk more loudly than all that cash.
    exactly.

    some developper are gamer at heart and make game they want to play and other are just businessman and make game that reach the larger public and bring the most money in.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 06:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    @OP u really enjoyed 2hour heroics?
    running an heroic dungeon for 15 or 30 minutes is like watching a high budget movie at a theater of about 15 or 30 minutes lengh.
    I don't know about you, but i like my movie on 2 hour lengh, and my dungeon too.

  12. #292
    cataclysm sucked much because of its shit way of getting items,
    some shitty patch in Wotlk gave us RDF, and every lazy scrub was pressing button to get in a dung,
    AFK all the day, people didnt know where are these instances, they just press one button and are ported to them,
    look back in the good days of the TBC or first half of Wotlk, get a party of experienced people, fly, summ, you feel the game

    now RDF LFR no matter what u do, how shit u are, u get the best gear easy peazy, i mean best, nobody cares if its heroic or not
    Last edited by Milerks; 2013-05-02 at 04:38 PM.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Part of the problem is that they drastically changed healing, and if your group's healer wasn't good under the new system it made everything absurdly painful. If you were one of the healers who adapted quickly, then you solved at least half of the problems most groups faced on your own.
    utter and complete nonsense. the healer was the least of the groups problems when Cata dropped, but the unfortunate butt of most of the hostility and abuse flying around in pugs. healers were being seen as "not good" when they couldnt magically heal dps that stood in crap that killed them in seconds. when groups decided to ignore cc and tanks picked up 5 mobs and died in a split second, healers got the blame. when things that needed interrupting didnt get interrupted, and tanks didnt bother with cooldowns....well, guess who got the finger pointed at them?

    Blizzard decided to change the whole ethos of the 5 man runs, but unfortunately all of the requirement to "learn" seemed to end up on the backs of healers. it was a shitstorm of insults and abuse for a good time after Cata dropped, and trust me it was no fun at all being a healer at that time.

    the sad thing is, they could have fixed it if they made some form of training for this sea change in 5 man philosophy. best approach would have been the idea of a 1 man dungeon, with AI controlled help to teach people their roles. then everyone would have gone into the heroics with an idea of what was expected of them, rather than just healers.
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  14. #294
    Brewmaster Yuuki Asuna's Avatar
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    It was 'okay' in some sense. But there just...was nothing to do. I literally either sat in Stormwind and que for dungeons. If I didn't do that, I would farm ore. I can see why they took out the tabards for MoP simply because you ran out of things to do with no dailies in check. There wasn't much exploration in Cata since there were only portals to each place.

    So that's it. That's my reason.

    In MoP, I can que for dungeons, raids, and scenarios all the same time. I don't have to 'farm' for ore as there's plenty to come by, there is a lot of dailies but I only do a few factions a day, and I love the treasure hunting on Pandaria combine that with archaeology and it's awesome! The continent feel is back and I'm always going from zone to zone with something to do.

    In other words, they focused too much on redoing old content (which is okay) and less on end game at the time. MoP was all about 5 levels compared to 65. Cata's end game was...boring.
    I cried alone every single night. It felt like every day that passed here stole another piece of my real life away. After i cried, I’d go and fight as hard as I could. My only thought was winning, moving forward, and getting stronger. — Asuna Yuuki

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Milerks View Post
    cataclysm sucked much because of its shit way of getting items,
    some shitty patch in Wotlk gave us RDF, and every lazy scrub was pressing button to get in a dung,
    AFK all the day, people didnt know where are these instances, they just press one button and are ported to them,
    look back in the good days of the TBC or first half of Wotlk, get a party of experienced people, fly, summ, you feel the game

    now RDF LFR no matter what u do, how shit u are, u get the best gear easy peazy, i mean best, nobody cares if its heroic or not
    Why do you even bother to post if you're going to put so little effort into your opinion?

    Look back at the good days of TBC? You mean sitting in trade for 30-minutes to a couple hours just to get a decent group together? Then going back and waiting another 30 minutes because someone in the group didn't have the rep-key to enter? Bet you forgot about that, eh? Oh, and then waiting ANOTHER 20 minutes for ONE other player to fly out to the stone and summon. Yeah, you totally forgot that part.

    Best gear from LFR? Nobody cares if it's heroic? I certainly fucking care if it's heroic, especially since that heroic gear helps me kill more heroics. I mean, are you retarded? Do you understand that you just said something that made absolutely no sense? Go away.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
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  16. #296
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Why do you even bother to post if you're going to put so little effort into your opinion?

    Look back at the good days of TBC? You mean sitting in trade for 30-minutes to a couple hours just to get a decent group together? Then going back and waiting another 30 minutes because someone in the group didn't have the rep-key to enter? Bet you forgot about that, eh? Oh, and then waiting ANOTHER 20 minutes for ONE other player to fly out to the stone and summon. Yeah, you totally forgot that part.
    Why didn't you make friends? If you're too anti-social to make friends in an MMORPG then play another game.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Why didn't you make friends? If you're too anti-social to make friends in an MMORPG then play another game.
    That's gotta be the lamest counter-argument I've seen on this site yet. I personally don't find it appealing making friends online, I never see those persons, I never directly interact with those persons, I never get to hang out with those people, I only get to read their words or at most listen to their voice, and honestly, I personally don't find it appealing. So if a game forces me to do something I don't want to, it can go directly in the trash bin. Does that sound like good game design to you? There's a reason the LFG and LFR tools were introduced, and there's a reason the numbers of people experiencing raids have sky-rocketed since the introduction of LFR.

  18. #298
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    That's gotta be the lamest counter-argument I've seen on this site yet. I personally don't find it appealing making friends online...
    Then don't play an MMORPG, and don't change the game to suit your selfish anti-social needs.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Why didn't you make friends? If you're too anti-social to make friends in an MMORPG then play another game.
    Well, let's see: I'm in a guild that raids 3 days a week. Generally, people don't work out in guilds if they don't make friends. Therefore, I've made friends.

    Indeed, I did make friends in BC. We did plenty of heroics and raids together. But, surprise surprise, sometimes my friends don't play at the same times as I do! Schedules don't always match up? WHAT. A. SHOCKER.

    I'm going to give you a little piece of advice: Try to pick apart your own suggestions before you make them. If there's something OBVIOUS that makes your suggestion fall apart, then maybe keep it to yourself? Because you just made yourself look like a fucking moron.
    Last edited by Belloc; 2013-05-02 at 07:17 PM.
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  20. #300
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Well, let's see: I'm in a guild that raids 3 days a week. Generally, people don't work out in guilds if they don't make friends. Therefore, I've made friends.

    Indeed, I did make friends in BC. We did plenty of heroics and raids together. But, surprise surprise, sometimes my friends don't play at the same times as I do! Schedules don't always match up? WHAT. A. SHOCKER.

    Get a clue.
    If you couldn't find a group it was your own fault. The game can't do everything for you.

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