MLD as UA or Destro?

[ProteinShake]

I'm a bit confused I thought the standard spec for this comp is destro, but I see many high rated players playing this comp as UA? Any reason for this? Is UA better for MLD?

[Valedus]

I'm assuming because cleansing Deep = cleansing UA = healer silenced for 4 seconds, and the mage and druid can help give the lock breathing room to Malefic?

[Snuggli]

I'm assuming because cleansing Deep = cleansing UA = healer silenced for 4 seconds, and the mage and druid can help give the lock breathing room to Malefic?

Yeah, I think this is the main point.

Having UA to cover your deeps is pretty massive. Also, Demon Soul Affli Locks are harder to stop than Demon Soul Destro Locks. A UA lock doing rediculous spread damage opens up every target on the enemy team to be a kill target for the Mage.

[Valedus]

That all and from what I've heard (don't play a mage and it isn't very noticeable) Nether Tempest does good DoT damage? Perhaps it is trying to be the new LSD.

[Yvaelle]

Everything already mentioned, but I have another thing to add So, normally people think of Afflictions burst (or lack there of) as being a defect of the spec - but for MLD it works to their benefit. A destro locks burst damage is massive, but controllable - and ultimately if you can control or disrupt or mitigate their burst cycles, their pressure phases are relatively trivial - the same is mostly true for demonology. Affliction doesn't burst, but as a result it has consistently higher (much higher) pressure all the time.

Frost mages don't need assistance bursting people anyways, what they need is targets that are already vulnerable - Destro + Fmage can burst for WAYY more damage than anyone has in health: overkill is pretty, but entirely useless. An afflictions damage pattern is therefore actually a boon when combined with a frost mage, because it lets the frost mage pick anyone on the team (as Snuggli pointed out) to burst. It's the same general pattern as God Comp / MLS.

What's more - while Dark Soul->Chaos Bolt/Chaos Wave deals huge damage, Dark Soul->Affliction DoTs is nice - but not necessary to create pressure. With Frost Mages being able to burst every ~10 seconds (Frost Bomb CD), and 'Burst with Deep Freeze' every 30 seconds - its important for the mage to have a teammates whose damage is effective as often as the mages own damage: DoT classes are always doing effective damage (pressure), albeit usually at the cost of not having bursty cooldowns.

[Nicola]

Just one thing I want to point out, damage != pressure. While Affliction can dot everyone, no one is going to worry about those 2.5k ticks, because you won't die from that. The only real reason to bring the warlock is to be an annoying as possible target dummy for the other team, providing gateway and health stones so the mage can do his magic and win games...

It really doesn't matter which of the warlock speces you bring, they all work because of how strong mages currently are. Not because Affliction deals insane pressure or Destruction having insane burst. (They don't, in case that isn't clear).

[Nemasisx]

Just one thing I want to point out, damage != pressure. While Affliction can dot everyone, no one is going to worry about those 2.5k ticks, because you won't die from that. The only real reason to bring the warlock is to be an annoying as possible target dummy for the other team, providing gateway and health stones so the mage can do his magic and win games...

It really doesn't matter which of the warlock speces you bring, they all work because of how strong mages currently are. Not because Affliction deals insane pressure or Destruction having insane burst. (They don't, in case that isn't clear).

Pretty much this, your gonna fear everyone the entire game to make chances for your mage to go for a kill, keep UA so deep wont/be hurtful to dispell thus either giving mage full deep, or a good chance to kill the healer (or somthing else 4 sec for a mage is enough) or your gonna sync your chaosbolts with frostbombs, then again id be emberrased to play destro with a mage, to watch his ice lance hits more then my chaosbolt and then claim i did anything to help with that kill ^^

[Valedus]

Pretty much this, your gonna fear everyone the entire game to make chances for your mage to go for a kill, keep UA so deep wont/be hurtful to dispell thus either giving mage full deep, or a good chance to kill the healer (or somthing else 4 sec for a mage is enough) or your gonna sync your chaosbolts with frostbombs, then again id be emberrased to play destro with a mage, to watch his ice lance hits more then my chaosbolt and then claim i did anything to help with that kill ^^

Shadowburn at the end of Deep! :P

[marv333]

Just one thing I want to point out, damage != pressure. While Affliction can dot everyone, no one is going to worry about those 2.5k ticks, because you won't die from that. The only real reason to bring the warlock is to be an annoying as possible target dummy for the other team, providing gateway and health stones so the mage can do his magic and win games...

It really doesn't matter which of the warlock speces you bring, they all work because of how strong mages currently are. Not because Affliction deals insane pressure or Destruction having insane burst. (They don't, in case that isn't clear).

also because killing a frost mage is very hard when they have a resto druid in the team
and the lock is usually never a good target because of their massive health pool and defensives

[Nyaldee]

Destro mld is mighty fine too, it's not hard to bait dispell with miriad of cc setup has and then go deep and balls of the walls. Besides it's not a rare ocasion to deep healer to shut him or burst him down. It's pretty much the same as mage/elem combo exept destro has lower burst but better defences and last time i faced elem/mage (with priest) elem stomped our priest in a single deep with single lance from mage so "overkill" burst isn't bad at all when 2 instead of one can score a kill on their own.
Although affli/mage is pretty strong too becouse of nether tempest, dot preassure isn't far from balance/affli but setup is miles better.

Major difference lies between the way this setup score kills, with destro/mage you can spam cc through healer dispell cd and eventually connect and burst whatever down. As affli/mage both pretty much run around spamming dots then deep-burst-gg. Ofc it isn't detailed guide "how to" but conception is about right.

The long story short: both destro and affli mld is strong, try and decide what spec will work out for you.

[TheGravemind]

It actually all depends on what the Mage wants to play. UA MLX is strong if your mage is capable of playing Frostbomb well and soloing people from 70%-0% in a deep. Destro MLX is strong if your Mage wants to play NT, but it's also strong with a Frostbomb mage, it'll just often result in longer games, however.

Both are strong comps, but Destro MLX is probably slightly stronger just because it can get more counter pressure out more quickly and the Warlock will have more survivability with ember tap (plus Rain of Fire with Destro is excellent for preventing restealths.)

[Lulbalance]

Just one thing I want to point out, damage != pressure. While Affliction can dot everyone, no one is going to worry about those 2.5k ticks, because you won't die from that. The only real reason to bring the warlock is to be an annoying as possible target dummy for the other team, providing gateway and health stones so the mage can do his magic and win games...

It really doesn't matter which of the warlock speces you bring, they all work because of how strong mages currently are. Not because Affliction deals insane pressure or Destruction having insane burst. (They don't, in case that isn't clear).

this 100%

i prefer playing destro MLD personally... but either way the mage is the star.

[ProteinShake]

Could someone give me the generic strats as MLD/MLS destro?

[CHRONICGODX]

i've been queuing into more and more UA locks recently, all the old comps. LSD2, shadowcleave, MLS, shadowplay. it was difficult to land kills most of the time, and despite affli dots being pretty weak nowadays, we rotted anyways. the one MLD we queued into though didnt get anywhere with us. all they did was spam CC and do no damage. I will say though, UA cleanses seem to hurt quite a bit. Anyone see that talbadar clip, MD 3 UAs and killed himself? lol.

[Yvaelle]

i've been queuing into more and more UA locks recently, all the old comps. LSD2, shadowcleave, MLS, shadowplay. it was difficult to land kills most of the time, and despite affli dots being pretty weak nowadays, we rotted anyways. the one MLD we queued into though didnt get anywhere with us. all they did was spam CC and do no damage. I will say though, UA cleanses seem to hurt quite a bit. Anyone see that talbadar clip, MD 3 UAs and killed himself? lol.

I should make an RBG team just for kicks sometime that consists entirely of Affliction Locks (and healers and FCs, but w/e) - put UA on everything, wait for someone to cleanse someone, laugh heartily

[Lulbalance]

Could someone give me the generic strats as MLD/MLS destro?

Generally..get trinks with insane mage dmg every 24 sec - use obscene amounts of cc to cross - kill something in a deep.

it changes obv but usually my druid will know we're setting up on something and cyc or root off dps while i'm landing a fear and the mage is bombing. if i get the 3s for a conflag/ bolt / conflag into a deep and healer's trink is down it's usually kill. if he lives by some miracle we cross and i'll fear out of cyc or whatever - mage will sheep off my fear. and we'll keep at it. 2 silences.. howl / ring.. there's a lot. its pretty fun. ring under cyc's is nice too.

that usually works for us.. except against thug - then its just a peel fest. just work it til you get openings, imo. keep CoE up for your mage's targs.

[panterarules]

I think the biggest reason is a lot of high rated warlocks (nadagast for example) just prefer the play style. The damage is ridiculously low and the pressure is pretty laughable compared to what it used to be in TBC and Wrath. Saying that, the best spells a warlock brings is fear and gate, the damage is kinda irrelevant. Cataclysm gutted affliction into a single target spec and it has never recovered. Future changes bring hope though ;D but i hope it doesn't end there.

I would go Destro if you want to create opportunities through burst. Affliction to have fun and hopefully practice for future patches. Your mage will be the one killing things though.