Should Blizzard allow 'account amnesty'?

[cFortyfive]

Honestly, I don't have the time nor desire to dig up information I looked up 8 years ago. You're welcome to do the research yourself, however the statistics are entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

As this information obviously doesn't exist I wouldn't really want to burden you with actually delivering proof that most people who get permabanned do so on first offense. And these informations aren't irrelevant as you claim as already mentioned people have enough chances to get their shit together. Nobody needs scum getting back their accounts. Honest mistakes happen and should be fixed and also have been fixed specifically in the case of wine users - apart from that there is no need to act.

[Seranthor]

Honestly, I don't have the time nor desire to dig up information I looked up 8 years ago. You're welcome to do the research yourself, however the statistics are entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

Money, of course.

Don't get me wrong, as much as I'd LIKE something like this, every decision comes down to money, and the ONLY way an amnesty system would work, is if it was fiscally effective. If it brought in enough money through new accounts, or simply fees, it would be worth it. If, despite fees/subscriptions, it wouldn't cover the manpower + profit... it would never work.

Do you truly think that they'll be able to make enough money off this rule change to cover the lost subscribers that get pissed that Blizzard is letting cheaters back in and quit... as well as cover the losses from potential subs that dont happen because of the bad press that this is certain to cause by letting cheaters back in. Somehow, I see this as a huge loss to Blizzard.

[cFortyfive]

Do you truly think that they'll be able to make enough money off this rule change to cover the lost subscribers that get pissed that Blizzard is letting cheaters back in and quit...

considering that most users don't even really actually play the game nor would even realize that this is happening I definitely thing that it would have no negative financial impact.

[chazus]

Just 2 sections I found in the TOU...
Im certain that your Wine emulator that you got banned for falls under one... Yes?

Firstly. Neither of those mention Warden.
Secondly, after reading those... No, Wine does not violate either of those, as far as I can tell.

Archon, dunno... dont care.... Dont have to worry about it... because I'm following the rules.

You don't know. That right there is my point.
I didn't know about Warden (and most people dont) either, and was following the rules. Funny, that.

PS: There's no such thing as Archon, I made it up to prove a point. You can't tell if you're blocking/preventing something or not, if you don't know it exists.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:46 AM ----------

that Blizzard is letting cheaters back in

Sigh.

Again, you seem to be missing the point. No cheaters are 'getting back in'. None. Zero. Nada. It would only be available to people already playing the game for an extended time. If any 'cheaters' were included in the amnesty system, they are -already playing the game-. Right now. As we type this. They're in Isle of Thunder. They're in Throne of Thunder. They're doing BGs. Right now. And have been for months. And will be for months. If they wanted to cheat, they already are right this very second.

Allowing them access to their old account, I -highly doubt-, would incentivize them to cheat again, especially when they have two accounts on the line now, instead of one.

Heck. Put a nail in the coffin. A violation with an Amnesty Account shuts down your entire battle.net account, and all games on it. Not just WoW.

[Seranthor]

Firstly. Neither of those mention Warden.
Secondly, after reading those... No, Wine does not violate either of those, as far as I can tell.

You don't know. That right there is my point.
I didn't know about Warden (and most people dont) either, and was following the rules. Funny, that.

PS: There's no such thing as Archon, I made it up to prove a point. You can't tell if you're blocking/preventing something or not, if you don't know it exists.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 12:46 AM ----------


Sigh.

Again, you seem to be missing the point. No cheaters are 'getting back in'. None. Zero. Nada. It would only be available to people already playing the game for an extended time.

Look... they dont have to announce what program they are using... seems that the TOU is crystal clear about the use of emulators... Sorry if you are either unwilling or unable to realize that.

I get it... you are hell bent on this after being given a raft of reasons why its a bad idea... Tell me something... have you even attempted to appeal this? When did you last attempt appeal this?

As far as whether YOU can determine that your emulator fell under the TOU... BLIZZARD thought it did...

pss. I dont need to know if I"m blocking something or not... if I"m following the TOU then I have not a damn thing to worry about.

Yes, cheaters would get back in... by using the same sob story you are, 'boo hoo I didn't know, wa wa wa, why me I"m a good person, bla bla bla'

You dont think that most of the folks banned turned around and created new accounts? You can sure as hell believe that a good many of htem did.

[Flatspriest]

everyone giving a flat out no are the people who believe every single person found guilty in a court of law actually committed the crime.

everyone makes mistakes, including the justice disher-outers, detectives, investigators, etc. it is part of being human.

Not true. The person who is banned can readily appeal the ban multiple times. If they don't, then that is their own fault since they received an email telling them exactly how to appeal. Each time they appeal, a new person looks over the logs Blizzard has to see if the ban might have been placed in error, and if it was, they remove the ban.

[chazus]

seems that the TOU is crystal clear about the use of emulators... Sorry if you are either unwilling or unable to realize that.

I worded it poorly, but Wine is not an emulator.

Tell me something... have you even attempted to appeal this? When did you last attempt appeal this?

Several times. I appealed for it about once every year for about 3 years. I've given up.

As far as whether YOU can determine that your emulator fell under the TOU... BLIZZARD thought it did...

"Thought" being the key word. Blizzard admitted, and apologized for banning Wine users after investigating the issue (I'm looking for the original article regarding it). However a good third of the users were not unbanned.

Yes, cheaters would get back in... by using the same sob story you are, 'boo hoo I didn't know, wa wa wa, why me I"m a good person, bla bla bla'

Um. Dude, seriously. Are you not understanding? It can only be done by people with already active account. For a year. if you want to go by 'my sob story'... I'm already playing. I'm queued for Lei Shen right now. How am I 'getting back in'?. I'm in the game right now. As would 100% of the people in the proposed program. Part of the criteria, and possibly the most important part, is proving to be responsible for a long time. A year, at least.

[xanzul]

I think banning needs to be reviewed more thoroughly after the process because there is certainly larger amount of wrongfully banned people than their should be.

I don't think there should be a set amnesty system though, but as part of my desire for more thorough review on bans something along the lines of that would obviously factor in. Generally someone that's been playing clean for 4 years and gets banned for something sketchy should be reviewed a bit deeper.

That is the entire point of the appeals process and it works and works quite well. Go take a look at the customer support forums sometime. Many people who were wrongfully banned due to false positives through Warden are typically unbanned within hours of appeal if not minutes. Yes people get wrongfully banned all the time (and there seems to be an upsurge of it recently for some reason) but if you are innocent Blizzard has no problem reviewing the case and overturning the ban. Anyone who ends up still banned is usually guilty and Blizzard has ample evidence to back it up.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 03:59 AM ----------

Yes. I am. Exactly that, actually.

I actually did, and can't really think of any way to abuse that off the top of my head, outside of things that would have -already- been done on the active account.

Are you kidding me? You don't see a problem with people who don't have an issue with cheating being able to get away with it by buying their account back? No one could possibly be this ignorant.

[klaps_05]

if you got banned you deserved it, doesn't matter if you have a 10 year subscription after that. a closed account stays closed. there's no redemption for people that get banned as they don't deserve it.

[xanzul]

I'd be all for it. I could get my original account back :-)

For the record people, not ALL banned accounts were banned because WE broke the rules. Believe it or not, if you get hacked too much, Blizzard will close the account permanently. If your account gets hacked and you can't, for whatever reason, supply the info to unlock it, it gets banned. If you unknowingly accept hacked items or gold, you can get permanently banned. I could probably list off 100 or more other reasons that, through no purposeful fault of your own, your account can be permanently shut down.

Granted, mine got shut down for botting, so yes, I'm all about getting my account back!

Yeah no. I call bullshit. Blizzard in the past has implied that repeated account compromises may result a player not being able to get any more restorations but they don't perm ban over it. All of you spouting this ignorant crap need to actually read over Blizzard's policies and all the blue posts in the customer support forums that clarify said polices. Am I saying Blizzard can't do things better and that things shouldn't be changed? Nope. What I am saying however is I understand and comprehend their rationale for why things are the way they are. The first step to getting things improved is understanding how it works in the first place.

[NatePsy]

My bad, I thought people were smarter than that. Wine is just a windows emulator for unix, which I was using at the time. Super malicious.

Did you get in with Account Services to tell them the situation and provide proof of said program not being malicious?

[chazus]

Did you get in with Account Services to tell them the situation and provide proof of said program not being malicious?

Yes, I did. But this is not about me getting my account back. I know I'm not getting it back, nor am I bothering to try. It's been eight years. O_o

The discussion is purely about a suggested system, and not about how any one person's account got frozen.

[Seranthor]

I worded it poorly, but Wine is not an emulator.

Several times. I appealed for it about once every year for about 3 years. I've given up.

"Thought" being the key word. Blizzard admitted, and apologized for banning Wine users after investigating the issue (I'm looking for the original article regarding it). However a good third of the users were not unbanned.

Um. Dude, seriously. Are you not understanding? It can only be done by people with already active account. For a year. if you want to go by 'my sob story'... I'm already playing. I'm queued for Lei Shen right now. How am I 'getting back in'?. I'm in the game right now. As would 100% of the people in the proposed program. Part of the criteria, and possibly the most important part, is proving to be responsible for a long time. A year, at least.

if they UNBANNED Wine users then your best and only chance is find that article... Seriously.

A Year? Really? a year? thats what... 180$ of sub fees... Sorry... thats not shit.. and your 1 year and 50$ wont cover the bad press from your 'amnesty' program... the word itself leaves a bad taste in many mouths as it excuses inexcusable behavior and it mocks the shit out of those that followed the damn rules.

assuming IF I were to sign onto this plan of yours... I'd say 5 yrs no nothing... not even someone /report ing you for anything... $500 fine... 1 year pre-paid time in advance... AND strip everything off the account in question... gold, mounts, gear, achievements, EVERYTHING. Have to make it financially worthwhile for Blizzard to take this risk... then of course you have to cover the cost of the bad PR over letting botters, gold sellers and shit back into the game.

[lanerios]

O_o

...This isn't about how to prevent getting banned.

No, you are talking about people that get banned back in the game. Which is the 2 you are quoting are talking about. Next time try again?

My opinion: NO, got banned? Your own damn mistake, don't expect blizzard to help you back.

[Seranthor]

Yes, I did. But this is not about me getting my account back. I know I'm not getting it back, nor am I bothering to try. It's been eight years. O_o

The discussion is purely about a suggested system, and not about how any one person's account got frozen.

If this is truly about a 'suggested' system then explain how the benefit of your plan outweighs the well explained risk... Does Blizzard not currently have an appeals process?

[chazus]

If they UNBANNED Wine users then your best and only chance is find that article... Seriously.

Amusingly, I actually did quote the apology article to them at the time. They said that they still 'stand behind the judgement' regardless.

then of course you have to cover the cost of the bad PR over letting botters, gold sellers and shit back into the game

I'm seriously confused now. No botters or gold sellers are being 'let back in'. The only way they could use this, is if they already have an active account. I've seriously repeated this like 7 times now. I can't explain it any clearer. Nobody will be able to just shell out money and jump back in the game.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 01:10 AM ----------

explain how the benefit

Money? Again (for like the third time). Money drives it. If it's not profitable, then there's no point. Neither you, nor I, are Blizzard's financial team. We don't determine if it can be profitable or not. They could, though.

[cFortyfive]

No botters or gold sellers are being 'let back in'. The only way they could use this, is if they already have an active account. I've seriously repeated this like 7 times now. I can't explain it any clearer. Nobody will be able to just shell out money and jump back in the game.

So - trash talk, cheat and bot on another battle.net account. Keep a clean one for Blizzard - get your old one back.

[NatePsy]

Yes, I did. But this is not about me getting my account back. I know I'm not getting it back, nor am I bothering to try. It's been eight years. O_o

The discussion is purely about a suggested system, and not about how any one person's account got frozen.

Well, I say there needs to be set circumstances. If they were banned for bot use, gold buying or extremely harsh language/harassment then I say there's no amnesty for those. I think that the only one's deserving of amnesty are the ones that were banned falsely (Which they are granted in most cases, providing they give solid proof) or banned for a couple minor swear offences.

Severe bans deserve no amnesty at all.

[Alvito]

If you get locked out of one account for valid reasons then you shouldn't get it back. The idea that because they brought a recruit a friend to the game making up for past issues is just insane. The other suggestions aren't to far behind that.

[Xeraxis]

Not sure if you even read the post or not. Part of the criteria was, very specifically, not breaking the rules for an extended period of time.

Fairly easy to not break the rules any longer when you can no longer play.