"Real reason" we aren't getting Tri-Spec

[-Superman-]

and while it's a mild bit of an annoyance to have to return to Orgrimmar to do this, it's not the worst thing in the world. I think there's bigger and better things Blizz can be developing instead.

I agree. I would rather see them balance the specs first.

[Deleted]

If they were to implement tri-specc, they might as well just let everyone freely choose between their 3 (4 for Druids) speccs and use the Tomes to change talents and glyphs when needed, for different fights, for PvP or for whatever.

[bleh bleh 420 bleh]

I wish they would just give us 3 so this entire forum could have more than just posts bitching about it.

Like seriously guys? Get over it. You don't need 3 specs.

[Wildtree]

The topic is only a prime example how human nature works.... People are never happy with what they have, they always want more, the moment they have what they wanted....

Remember, there was once no such thing as dual spec. We had to run to see the trainer, unlearn talents, learn new ones.. And it wasn't a big deal at all....
Yet we got dual spec.. Then people weren't happy with it, because it was too costly.. 1000 gold and level 40 required...
Then that got lowered, even the level range when to get it was lowered.... 10g and level 30.......
And yet still, people again aren't happy. Now it's tri-spec they want.
And from there it's just a matter of time until that wouldn't be enough either.

No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...

[Wildmoon]

The topic is only a prime example how human nature works.... People are never happy with what they have, they always want more, the moment they have what they wanted....

Remember, there was once no such thing as dual spec. We had to run to see the trainer, unlearn talents, learn new ones.. And it wasn't a big deal at all....
Yet we got dual spec.. Then people weren't happy with it, because it was too costly.. 1000 gold and level 40 required...
Then that got lowered, even the level range when to get it was lowered.... 10g and level 30.......
And yet still, people again aren't happy. Now it's tri-spec they want.
And from there it's just a matter of time until that wouldn't be enough either.

No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...

I kinda agree with this.

[melodramocracy]

No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...

Lots of changes aren't needed at all, but that doesn't stop folks from demanding them.

[AVPaul]

The topic is only a prime example how human nature works.... People are never happy with what they have, they always want more, the moment they have what they wanted....

Remember, there was once no such thing as dual spec. We had to run to see the trainer, unlearn talents, learn new ones.. And it wasn't a big deal at all....
Yet we got dual spec.. Then people weren't happy with it, because it was too costly.. 1000 gold and level 40 required...
Then that got lowered, even the level range when to get it was lowered.... 10g and level 30.......
And yet still, people again aren't happy. Now it's tri-spec they want.
And from there it's just a matter of time until that wouldn't be enough either.

No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...

This is a prime example how some human nature works. Some people feels so special, that they are always care about what other people doing and deciding what is good and what is bad for other people. It's not about tri-spec only. We have so much "the game is dumbed down", "LFR is killing the game" and etc. threads at the recent time. Why do you care about other players? Why can't you just play the content you like? Why are you talking on behalf of everybody? It's just not your busyness. You don't need tri-spec? So why you are here? It will hurt personally you some how? You will be unable to play? The game will be broken for you? No? Don't need it - don't buy it. As simple as that. Leave it for those people, who actually needs it. "Feeling" of classes/spec will be spoiled? Don't make me laugh))) Developers are not caring about players feelings for a long time already. And it's so subjective. I personally don't see any difference. Talent system dumbing down spoiled my spec-related feelings 100500 times more. And nobody cared about this.

P.S. Who needs heroic scenarios? M? I personally think, that nobody. And we will have it in 5.3.

[Florena]

Funny thing is I think that if GC could he's remove dual spec as it is since being able to swap out talents at will within the same spec solves a lot of what dual spec was made to help with, but there's no way he could remove it without massive backlash.

[Urti]

Rift doesn't have this problem. Everyone's happy.

All 12 of them.

[NightZero88]

The topic is only a prime example how human nature works.... People are never happy with what they have, they always want more, the moment they have what they wanted....

Remember, there was once no such thing as dual spec. We had to run to see the trainer, unlearn talents, learn new ones.. And it wasn't a big deal at all....
Yet we got dual spec.. Then people weren't happy with it, because it was too costly.. 1000 gold and level 40 required...
Then that got lowered, even the level range when to get it was lowered.... 10g and level 30.......
And yet still, people again aren't happy. Now it's tri-spec they want.
And from there it's just a matter of time until that wouldn't be enough either.

No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...

No one NEEDED heroic raids. Hunters didn't NEED their quivers and ammo removed. Warriors/rogues didn't NEED the removal of a ranged weapon. Nobody NEEDED anything they have done in this game. They did it though because it made the game better. Tri-spec will make the game better. It won't harm anything and it won't hurt anything. It will help it if anything. And if you don't like it, don't use it. But stop acting like you are the king and know what's best for everyone, you don't so kindly stop acting like you do.

And you say running to the trainer and respeccing wasn't a big deal? Yeah, no, it's always been a pain in the ass. Especially for me who came from GW1 which allowed you to change EVERYTHING on the fly with NO cost. And it promoted build diversity and trying random ass builds that turned out to be awesome or crappy. If we still had the old talent trees it would have promoted people trying unique builds instead of using cookie cutter builds which forced Blizz into making talent trees the dumb things we have now.

You are a prime example of how human nature works, thinking your view is the right one no matter what and trying to force your opinion on others. You know who else did that? Hitler and look how that turned out.

[Skorpionss]

I think they should add 3rd spec... and make it cost 100k gold... or 25$ >

[Tkaczu]

Chill guys, they will implement 3rd specc as major feature in one of next patch or exp. And the blue twit must be troll twit, I refuse being treated like idiot (remember GC's reasoning behind dumbing and removing specc trees? Exactly opposite what he twitted now).

[Raiju]

Look guys, there's only 2 reasons given in this thread so far to justify the "but people will want more" argument past tri-spec. Due to the new talent system we don't need to have PvP and PvE specs generally, the exceptions are:

A) druids have 4 specs, it's natural druids would ask for quad spec.
B) The argument about pve vs pvp keybinding and all that makes sense. I find it hard to believe no addon exists to cope with this issue considering I've used ones to cover this myself. I imagine people are just being inflexible. Still, it's a point.

Changing talents is no longer changing spec. They are *completely* unrelated now. You can have any talents with any spec in your class. Stop bringing it up.

[Wow]

The biggest reason for me to deny it is the "if you give a mouse a cookie" scenario.

If you give the players 2 specs, they will want 3. If you give them 3, then they want a 4th tree for all classes. If you give them a 4th tree then they want 4 specs.

It continues until you reach either a point of total lunacy (10 specs/trees anyone?) or you give up and say "no more specs, just have everything baseline."


For those saying that 3 is all we'd ever want, I passed by a "4th spec ideas" thread on my way in here. It's already happening.

That train of thought died when mop put in specs that are the same no matter what you use them for. Before mop yes that was an issue, but now say a pve holy pally wants to pvp they get the same abilities for being holy no matter what they use it for. And talents are changeable at any time anywhere already.

The way it was before they would need a whole new holy spec to do both. Before you would run into a "I need a spec for this I need a spec for that over and over." But now every spec is just that spec no matter what it is used for.

[Jtree]

No one needs tri-spec... I repeat, NO ONE!
Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled little children that want more chocolate and throw a tantrum if they don't get it...

No one needed mounts at 20, or flying at 60, or the elimination of stats like armor penetration, feral attack power, and weapon skills, or for Blizzard to try hard at making all specs viable in raiding and PvP. But they've done it, and all have been embraced by players as good quality of life improvements.

...We have the ability to do it now. But now, we have 2 out of 3 active at all times. Once we have 3 / 3 active, how much longer before the people already screaming for a 4th spec get it? Once we all get a 4th spec, how long them before people make the same fight to get 4/4? Once we have all 4, people will again be bored and ask for a 5th spec, thinking it will make a difference. See where this is going? I think Blizz did an awesome job offering Dual spec.

People are already campaigning for a 4th spec, if it happens it stands to reason that a quad-spec campaign would start shortly thereafter (even if tri-spec isn't in yet).

and while it's a mild bit of an annoyance to have to return to Orgrimmar to do this, it's not the worst thing in the world. I think there's bigger and better things Blizz can be developing instead.

I agree. I would rather see them balance the specs first.

That will only happen if Blizzard stops doing anything else at all. As long as they keep adding new content, new levels, new abilities, "balance" will be a work in progress. It's a colossal system with countless variables, all pushing and pulling against each other. Despite that, over the years, they've learned to keep it a lot closer to equilibrium than it was in vanilla.

And the thing is, tri-spec isn't that much work. If it was datamined from PTR files, then it's already in place. All they have to do is turn it on. Like dual-spec, it's fire-and-forget. Once it's on, there's no big effort of upkeep they need to give it.


I think Ghostcrawler's real argument and reason for referencing rogues is that people are going to go into a raid and every one of them will use the "best" spec on each boss. It will be the new cookie-cutter. Instead of the old way of copying the top raiders' talent points, many players will turn on the spec that the hardcores say is best on a particular fight, regardless of their own ability with it. This already happens, and probably has since dual-spec was introduced, but with Talent 2.0 its far easier for pure DPSers to feel pressured into it.

This new talent and spec system has exposed how little variation there was between individual players using the same spec. Let's be honest, everyone used essentially the same talent build and glyphs anyway, based on what the theory crafters calculated. Today, the only major differentiation between pure class' specs that has an expense seems to be found in stat priority. Your gear may vary a bit, and your gems and reforges will get changed when respeccing. Blizzard ought to embrace that fact, and further emphasize the need for different stats in different specs.


Or, if I can wish for a moment, they could introduce a new element to the mix. As it stands now, we ought to get two more glyph slots at level 100, and a new row of talents at 105. For a level 95 endgame there could be another character customization option, something that stretches across specs, or even across classes, and would create a significant enough difference to fill spec choices.

Dual spec is great now when there are only three options for it to choose from. But imagine that each class has two or three viable options (subspecs, PotT, etc.) added that have to be changed via a trainer. Suddenly you've got six or nine possible setups to choose from in your dualspec. At that time, tri-spec would be a big addition, while still leaving a lot of possibilities on the shelf.

[-Superman-]

Look guys, there's only 2 reasons given in this thread so far to justify the "but people will want more" argument past tri-spec. Due to the new talent system we don't need to have PvP and PvE specs generally, the exceptions are:

A) druids have 4 specs, it's natural druids would ask for quad spec.

And there in lies the issue. Druids were nerfed and given a 4th spec. The Bear/Cat was OP and had to be split. So they were nerfed and forced to choose between them. Druids will ask to have access to all 4. Blizz would grant it. All other classes would be " QQ Blizz - Druid favoritism" and then all classed would get their 4th spec. Once everyone had a 4th spec, they would use the same logic to request quad spec as they do now requesting tri spec. The question is, does it end there or does it keep going? Knowing people and their demands, I would bet 1 year's salary on the fact that it would keep going.

[Deleted]

Look guys, there's only 2 reasons given in this thread so far to justify the "but people will want more" argument past tri-spec. Due to the new talent system we don't need to have PvP and PvE specs generally, the exceptions are:

A) druids have 4 specs, it's natural druids would ask for quad spec.
B) The argument about pve vs pvp keybinding and all that makes sense. I find it hard to believe no addon exists to cope with this issue considering I've used ones to cover this myself. I imagine people are just being inflexible. Still, it's a point.

Changing talents is no longer changing spec. They are *completely* unrelated now. You can have any talents with any spec in your class. Stop bringing it up.

You are right. The only problem is that most people lack the ability to think before speaking/writing. There is absolutely no issues what so ever in having 3 specs... only druids players could be upset by it but tbh, I'm pretty sure most druids players wont end up playing all 4 specs anyway.
So all this "then people will ask for x more specs" is just a pathetic argument that makes no sense at all.

[Farabee]

I'd love to hear you elaborate on this moronic statement.

Doesn't need to be elaborated on. GC is pretty much a dick on Twitter. The only reason he doesn't get canned like that Microsoft fellow is that he's more eloquent at it, and Blizzard just doesn't give a shit.

[Raiju]

And there in lies the issue. Druids were nerfed and given a 4th spec. The Bear/Cat was OP and had to be split. So they were nerfed and forced to choose between them. Druids will ask to have access to all 4. Blizz would grant it. All other classes would be " QQ Blizz - Druid favoritism" and then all classed would get their 4th spec. Once everyone had a 4th spec, they would use the same logic to request quad spec as they do now requesting tri spec. The question is, does it end there or does it keep going? Knowing people and their demands, I would bet 1 year's salary on the fact that it would keep going.

You made 2 ridiculous leaps in logic here.

A) that blizzard would spend the time (months of dedicated work) to make a new spec for the other 10 classes. That's more work than a tier would bring. That would NEVER do that in response to a tiny amount of whining for a tiny proportion of the community. They would do it if they wanted classes to have 4 specs and felt the massive workload was worth it.

B) People asking for a fifth spec will undoubtedly happen, but I highly doubt that blizzard would then in the already ridiculous scenario go and waste time making 5th, 6th, etc. specs for everyone.

Also, you should never go anywhere near a casino, or anywhere you can make bets. You'd be out of money ridiculously fast if you are willing to throw down a years salary on such a bold statement you need to have evidence to back it up.

As a notice to the general thread, people have been playing tri-spec manually since vanilla (with 3+ gear sets as someone said was unreasonable). It's common place among people who play multiple aspects of the game, I'd say.

[Najja]

GC is full of it on this. Go take a look at Rift and how many specs they let you run around with. Guess what? Shit works just fine, you can have your Tank, DPS, Healing, PvP DPS, PvP Healing and Grinding spec all set up and ready to go. Press the button and BAM you're specs changed and you're good to go. Doesn't make the class feel any less unique, doesn't make me feel bad that other people might be using the same spec. This whole idea of having to go back to a trainer to relearn how to swing your dagger a certain way is stupid.