PVP Power VS Strength "after patch"

[Kuniku]

yeh PvP power will still be important, and there will still be a LOT of it on gear (the 4 set bonus is changing to 1k pvp power for example) but pvp gear is restricted to like ~8 gem sockets, pve gear has loads more, so they could come in with better stat weighted pve gear, gem full pvp power and wipe the floor. this change will promote pvp gear more.

Not sure which will be the best way to gem though =/

[Peng]

What is this world pvp you are actually doing where the gear advantage matters?

There are different kinds of realms, Korgoth. You can create your char on a PvE or a PvP realm. PvE means that you have to ask before you engage a player of the opposite faction. On a PvP realm you don´t have to ask and he can´t deny your wish.

Why would I want to kill someone outside of a battleground? There are various reasons: He kills my mobs, he loots my herbs or ore, he´s ugly or simply BECAUSE I CAN.

[Deleted]

The funniest part is when 5.4 hits and the new season goes live they'll most likely increase the Arena ilevel cap to 509 seein as how the new set will be around 13 level above the current one. This means all PvE items would instantly be ilevel 509 while you need several weeks to get to the same ilevel with PvP gear.

Got a point, I gotta start working on my PVE gear.

There are different kinds of realms, Korgoth. You can create your char on a PvE or a PvP realm. PvE means that you have to ask before you engage a player of the opposite faction. On a PvP realm you don´t have to ask and he can´t deny your wish.

Why would I want to kill someone outside of a battleground? There are various reasons: He kills my mobs, he loots my herbs or ore, he´s ugly or simply BECAUSE I CAN.

Except that you can disable pvp in half of Azeroth

[meathead]

Who'd thought?


We need another time sink for PvE players and since they lack any last minute ideas they're just rolling all over PvP to make it happen.


It's about 400 for 1%, it's overall an 33% nerf to PvP power. Now they're halving the PvP power and resilience gems give. Most of these nerfs are not in favor of PvP players in any kind of way but only cater to PvE players jumping into PvP.

The funniest part is when 5.4 hits and the new season goes live they'll most likely increase the Arena ilevel cap to 509 seein as how the new set will be around 13 level above the current one. This means all PvE items would instantly be ilevel 509 while you need several weeks to get to the same ilevel with PvP gear.

bingo!its funny to see people hate the pvp power/gems change but love the gear scaling change-lmfao.but you have been spot on,nice post.

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 09:40 AM ----------

Who actually does World PVP?

I had my DK on KJ for about 4 months, and they do the big world pvp thing with huge guilds on both factions, and really it was just dumb. They zerg into your main city, they attack the big NPC guy, there is so many of them it takes 10s to get off an instant ability, and then the guild on your faction zergs into their zerg, and everyone is DC'd and you log back in and the big NPC guy is reset, and they wipe and leave, and its done.

What is this world pvp you are actually doing where the gear advantage matters?

"Who actually does World PVP?" "I had my DK on KJ for about 4 months, and they do the big world pvp thing with huge guilds on both factions,"

you answered your own question when your TRYED to say wpvp does not happen.im on a pvp server and wpvp happens all the time.doing daily's,fighting at hala,dark portal,fighting with doing dailys and when raids raid your city.all your doing is trying to make it sound like wpvp does not happen,well it does and its a big part of the game.3 forms of pvp in wow right?instanced =bgs ect,wpvp and dules.wpvp is not like arenas "how are 2's and 5's doing?" .i would even say pvp server =wpvp,if w pvp doe snot matter/happen get rid of all pvp servers,because thats the point of pvp server =wpvp could and does happen at any time.

why balance and gear the game around 3's "lmfao"-all the top teams just sit on rating anyway,see what i did there?

[Pazzz]

The thing that gets me...
We were all kind of PO'd when we read about the resilience change to make pve gear up to par. The way blizzard made us feel a little better about things was.... "BUT WAIT...the gear still has pvp power..making it a much better choice for PVP situations." Then they nerf the hell out of pvp power. I don't get it man.

[Miko]

We will be rolling with all int/str/agil gems anyway. Who cares about the pvp gem nerfs. This imo promotes pve gear with more slots more. To be totally honest here they are runined MoP with these constant changes. It's one of the things I hated about Diablo. Nerf, nerf, nerf, Over buff, nerf nerf, take the fun out of everything. The game is in a serious state of shit right now.

[yurano]

Problem here is that PvP power only affects PvP. Say daily quests, it wont affect your dmg there, so if you have let's say 12 PvP power gems,that's alot of stats wasted. Usless anyway...

Yeah but thats a sacrifice you're making when you grind dailies in PvP gear. Just like how you're sacrificing some ability to counter ganking when you're grinding dailies in PvE gear. Cept with the 5.3 changes, PvE gear is going to have no drawbacks whatsoever in the World.

[Raugnaut]

Most specs will just go for their primary stats ( int/agi/str )..

On live we are already at a point where 2 pvp = 1 int/str/agi for some classes... The previous nerf + this nerf makes it plain useless...

Some classes do have it to where primary stat > secondary stat x 2. However, for a small number of classes, 2x secondary stat> 1x primary stat. Warriors, I think some warlocks, maybe mages.

But yea. Now, the ONLY purpose that someone would even POSSIBLY gem pvp power was to get an increase in healing- except, well, they nerfed THAT as well, what was it, 200ish to 400ish, or a 100% rating nerf? Tanks might still go for resil, but even then, the place of tanks in the PvP world is now iffy (Except in reg BGs, such as AV/IoC, but who cared bout those?)

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 02:20 PM ----------

Got a point, I gotta start working on my PVE gear.


Except that you can disable pvp in half of Azeroth

Unless you are on a pvp server yea?

[Lumast]

I find it hilarious that you all don't understand that the pvp gem nerfs were an effort to keep pvp gear better than pve gear for pvp.

[Chuckadoodle]

I find it hilarious that you all don't understand that the pvp gem nerfs were an effort to keep pvp gear better than pve gear for pvp.

I agree to a point.. I don't PvP much.. i don't like it and moved all my toons to a PvE server after TBC. I see where Blizzard is going with these changes and I for one may dabble a little more in PvP now but....to the HC PvP'rs these changes seem counter intuitive. They can live with the gear changes maybe even the nerf to the gems as a level headed PvP player sees the bigger picture with the gem slot advantage in even LFR PvE gear. But take all these whole sale changes together gear, PvP Power nerf and gem nerf and it seems that Blizzard is caught in a no mans land of just what to do with the PvP side of the game.

[Deleted]

I find it hilarious that you all don't understand that the pvp gem nerfs were an effort to keep pvp gear better than pve gear for pvp.

HOW? How exactly do PvP players profit from this nerf in any kind of way? OH, PvE players get less PvP power from their extra sockets and thus less PvP power overall? SO DO WE! We get hit by this just as hard, assuming someone were to use PvP power/resilience in PvE gear in the first place!

All this does is to force us to go full strenght/int/agility and guess what, these are the stats PvE people will use anyway. It's the very gems they put into their gear. Now they wont even have to change gems for PvP, this sure isn't a change in their favor. And hey, it's not like they now instead of an extra PvP power gem they have an extra main stat gem so all they did was to stop forcing PvE people to re gem when jumping into PvP.

Not a single one of these changes is in favor of PvP players in any kind of way ASIDE from the ilevel ceiling. 65% base resilience? We were above that anyway! 33% PvP power nerf? Direct buff to PvE gear by reducing PvP equipped dmg/healer. Honor Gear users wont profit from this at all! Their gear was over budgeted on PvP Power/Defense. Hell PvE gear is most likely going to be better than the 476 honor pieces!

I agree to a point.. I don't PvP much.. i don't like it and moved all my toons to a PvE server after TBC. I see where Blizzard is going with these changes and I for one may dabble a little more in PvP now but....to the HC PvP'rs these changes seem counter intuitive. They can live with the gear changes maybe even the nerf to the gems as a level headed PvP player sees the bigger picture with the gem slot advantage in even LFR PvE gear. But take all these whole sale changes together gear, PvP Power nerf and gem nerf and it seems that Blizzard is caught in a no mans land of just what to do with the PvP side of the game.

The problem with this is that aside from the ilevel cap, none of these changes favour dedicated PvP players in any kind of way. All of them end up helping PvE players while giving them supreme reign over World PvP aswell.

[Chuckadoodle]

Hence the reason I said counter intuitive.. as a novice PvP'r these changes will allow me to dabble. But taken all at once I can see the point of the dedicated PvP'r that a lot of their hard work, theorycrafting and what not has been reset in the middle of an xpac, which to me is the most disturbing part. Did something need to change to ensure in rated PvP skill > gear.. I think anyone would agree that it needs to be fixed but maybe just maybe these changes as a whole needed to be spread out more and evaluated on live. If I were a dev on the pvp side of the house my first post on the main page would be we are going to be redesigning PvP through the rest of the xpac and value your (player) input.. we are establishing specific forums and feedback mechanisms to foster open discussion on each of these changes.

[Lumast]

HOW? How exactly do PvP players profit from this nerf in any kind of way? OH, PvE players get less PvP power from their extra sockets and thus less PvP power overall? SO DO WE! We get hit by this just as hard, assuming someone were to use PvP power/resilience in PvE gear in the first place!

I guess you're just too blinded by your rage to understand that that is the entire point of the nerf. They are toning down burst damage AND burst healing. They cut the gem stats in half so PvE gear with more sockets wouldn't look more attractive. You seem to misunderstand the entire goal of 5.3 and I'm not sure you will ever get it.

[Deleted]

Chukadoodle, the problem is, they don't want to change PvP in favor of PvPers otherwise all they would've to do was tune down burst and cc since those were the two things most high rated people complained about. Instead they set out to open the door to PvP for PvErs, with a battering ram. Completly ignoring the damage they'd cause to the PvP contruct and community in that effort reducing it to something more akin to pet battles, something for PvE people to dabble around in on the side.

All they currently do is to pretty much land the coup-de-grace on the PvP community. Since this expansion hit life they managed to reduce the arena participation as much as never before. Hell in some realmpools only rank 1 even gets a gladiator title nowadays. And they seem hellbent on finishing the PvP community off for good.

And the best thing is, they seem to design PvP now for PvE people, who for the most part are utterly uninterested in it and wont participate anyway.

I guess you're just too blinded by your rage to understand that that is the entire point of the nerf. They are toning down burst damage AND burst healing. They cut the gem stats in half so PvE gear with more sockets wouldn't look more attractive. You seem to misunderstand the entire goal of 5.3 and I'm not sure you will ever get it.

I'll bet if you'd link your armory you'd have like 5k honor kills overall, at most. They are not toning down burst with this in any kind of meaningful manner, especially seeing how they hit resilience just the same nor are they addressing the extra sockets of PvE gear. Because guess what, instead of an additional 320 PvP power, they'll not get an additional 160 strenght + socket bonus both things PvP players wont get.
All they did was remove the hassle from PvE players to re gem when entering PvP.

The one who really doesn't get it is you.

Edit, but after checking your post forums it's pretty obvious why, you simply don't want to. You're an PvE guy who's only posts in the PvP forum are about belittling and agitating people.

[Baracuda]

I guess you're just too blinded by your rage to understand that that is the entire point of the nerf. They are toning down burst damage AND burst healing. They cut the gem stats in half so PvE gear with more sockets wouldn't look more attractive. You seem to misunderstand the entire goal of 5.3 and I'm not sure you will ever get it.

For instanced PvP yes. All other kinds of PvP is getting ruined.

[Lumast]

I'll bet if you'd link your armory you'd have like 5k honor kills overall, at most. They are not toning down burst with this in any kind of meaningful manner, especially seeing how they hit resilience just the same nor are they addressing the extra sockets of PvE gear. Because guess what, instead of an additional 320 PvP power, they'll not get an additional 160 strenght + socket bonus both things PvP players wont get.
All they did was remove the hassle from PvE players to re gem when entering PvP.

The one who really doesn't get it is you.

Edit, but after checking your post forums it's pretty obvious why, you simply don't want to. You're an PvE guy who's only posts in the PvP forum are about belittling and agitating people.

Oh wow you are dumber than I thought. Good job looking at my 36 forum posts, you must have learned a lot. For example, you must have learned about all the glad titles I have, or how you will never be as good as I am. Oh wait, I don't post that because I don't care to wave epeens, but for you I'll make an exception.

Back on topic, for some reason you seem to think PvP gear has all it's PvP power cut in half too? Maybe you never learned how to read. A PvE geared player will tickle compared to a PvP geared player. Have fun inside that little fantasy inside your head.

For instanced PvP yes. All other kinds of PvP is getting ruined.

This is the only thing in the thread I agree with. However, like other people pointed out, wPvP has been dead for awhile now.


EDIT

Actually after reading your forum posts, it's clear you have absolutely no idea what's going on in 5.3 so I'm done responding.

[Chuckadoodle]

Hey Del, ok, I think i see where your complaint is, like I said I dont PvP on what you would call a regular basis. I am not good at it and can freely admit that. I am glad that at least you and I over a couple of posts can have a civil conversation.

I agree 100% with your comment on open the door to PvE'rs.. from my perspective that allows me to jump in a BG once in a while when there is nada going on, these changes in no way will get me to form an arena or rbg team so why the drastic changes.

I will say the BG's I have done for the legendary and during those moments of extreme boredom that the burst and CC was incredible and a change in gear/pvp power is really a band aid that will entice ppl like me to venture into a BG again. So in your opinion would this style of revamp been better served for next xpac allowing HC PvP'rs months to test the changes?

[Deleted]

Oh wow you are dumber than I thought. Good job looking at my 36 forum posts, you must have learned a lot. For example, you must have learned about all the glad titles I have, or how you will never be as good as I am. Oh wait, I don't post that because I don't care to wave epeens, but for you I'll make an exception.

Yes, totaly believable. Just like your other posts you did not in fact backup in any kind of way. I mean your "hurr durr derp nerfing PvP stats is good for PvP people" without any kind of data to back it up makes for an convincing and good argument.

Back on topic, for some reason you seem to think PvP gear has all it's PvP power cut in half too? Maybe you never learned how to read. A PvE geared player will tickle compared to a PvP geared player. Have fun inside that little fantasy inside your head.

You seem to have missed the flat 33% nerf to PvP power? It's not cut in half, but it's still 1/3 less effective than before. This does in fact favor gemming main stats, which are mostly used by PvE players as of now and guess what, they keep the free sockets and wont even have to re gem those!

I will say the BG's I have done for the legendary and during those moments of extreme boredom that the burst and CC was incredible and a change in gear/pvp power is really a band aid that will entice ppl like me to venture into a BG again. So in your opinion would this style of revamp been better served for next xpac allowing HC PvP'rs months to test the changes?

Thing is, while the burst in general was too high it was way better when wearing PvP gear solely because you had around 67-68% resilience. Which is a whole lot more than the basic 40%. If they had wanted to fix the burst while not letting healing go out of control simply ramping up defense/resilience and increasing battle fatigue would've been enough.

I have in all honesty no idea why exactly they are building PvP now around PvE players, because that is sadly what they seem to do and I don't think it's necessary either. It's like making my gear good enough to immediatly jump into heroic ToT and changing the mechanics to suit me, why would anyone do that?

Edit:

Actually after reading your forum posts, it's clear you have absolutely no idea what's going on in 5.3 so I'm done responding.

I'll guess you're refering to me. That's a cute argument seeing as how the opposition in the other thread in the end admitted that I was right. But after not providing any kind of data or even REASON of why your argument should be right and claiming to have several gladiator titles the only thing left for you is to now run off and hope nobody is going to question your claims. Since you can't possible back up anything of it.

[Lumast]

You seem to have missed the flat 33% nerf to PvP power? It's not cut in half, but it's still 1/3 less effective than before. This does in fact favor gemming main stats, which are mostly used by PvE players as of now and guess what, they keep the free sockets and wont even have to re gem those!

I said I'd stop responding but you're just too dumb to ignore.

I must have missed the part where they are putting PvP power on PvE gear. You keep switching your argument from PvPers having to gem main stats to the necessity of wearing PvE gear. Which is it? If you think that a PvE geared player gemmed full Str/Agi/Int will do any respectable damage compared to a PvP player gemmed the same, you are delusional.

Infracted for flaming
(see rest of thread as well)

[Deleted]

I said I'd stop responding but you're just too dumb to ignore.

I must have missed the part where they are putting PvP power on PvE gear. You keep switching your argument from PvPers having to gem main stats to the necessity of wearing PvE gear. Which is it? If you think that a PvE geared player gemmed full Str/Agi/Int will do any respectable damage compared to a PvP player gemmed the same, you are delusional.

Is it possible that you haven't even read my initial posts or have been unable to understand what I am actually writing? I've at no point written that it will BETTER in ranked PvP aside from a few selected pieces such as trinkets. What I've written all along is that it will be better than before and by a large margin so compared to PvP gear.
The only gear it will most likely trump is the 476 one, which is worrisome enough. My problems are:

1. PvP gear will get weaker (not weaker as but compared to before) compared to PvE gear then it is right now. Losing 33% of the PvP effectiveness, with PvE gear gaining 25% resilience for free and so on.
2. PvE gear will reign supreme in World PvP. Without the item ceiling 522 (530) PvE gear will destroy PvP gear in World PvP.
3. Aside from the item ceiling none of these changes favor PvP players or PvP gear. For example the PvP gem nerf (and resilience) doesn't do anything to adress the problem of extra sockets on PvP gear. Since the players will all just end up using main stats (or the most favorable other stat) and will just have some additional gems of that.