Cloak and Dagger nerf

[Linneth]

thats all great. what are you quoting me for? are you trying to say only 1500 players take CnD at all? LOL. sure its comp dependent but its like 70-30 for CnD atm. thats along way from 'useless', how you use it is what changes between good and bad players.

also i you read up i said ;


"personally, i wanna see subterfuge duration cut in half / glyphs for garrote and cheap removed. that's it.. that's a fix imo.

CnD doesnt bother me at all but i'll take anything at this point against rogues and hunters i guess..."

stop quoting me, then saying the same thing and acting like its a revelation.

It's a "useless" talent because it fails at being desirable by all rogue specs (which should be the target of any talent, if not it should be a specialization skill).

[Miko]

I hate it is being nerfed, but CnD is retarded strong for sub. Being able to CC the whole team and then putting out max pressure makes the talent a must have for any serious Arena play.

[Angryst]

Stop posting that Rogue X could CS you're team then come back and kill someone all in a subterfuge or whatever...those CS cost energy, so CS a few people pop back to original target and.....wait....for....energy.....CnD was fine maybe lessen it to 22-25yds due to latency, Subterfuge is slightly OP tho. Should fix it by unstealthing the rogue but allowing stealthed abilities.

[Deleted]

Stop posting that Rogue X could CS you're team then come back and kill someone all in a subterfuge or whatever...those CS cost energy, so CS a few people pop back to original target and.....wait....for....energy.....CnD was fine maybe lessen it to 22-25yds due to latency, Subterfuge is slightly OP tho. Should fix it by unstealthing the rogue but allowing stealthed abilities.

pretty much this.

[Flaks]

Stop posting that Rogue X could CS you're team then come back and kill someone all in a subterfuge or whatever...those CS cost energy, so CS a few people pop back to original target and.....wait....for....energy.....CnD was fine maybe lessen it to 22-25yds due to latency, Subterfuge is slightly OP tho. Should fix it by unstealthing the rogue but allowing stealthed abilities.

I agree with your subterfuge change.

But CnD is an utterly stupid talent simply because it's unbalancable in it's 5.2 form. Imagine if every time a warrior cast avatar, he would get auto-charged to your location no matter where you went. Would that be fair? NO. And this wasn't either. And shadow dance is in fact a more powerful burst cd than avatar.

[Deleted]

I agree with your subterfuge change.

But CnD is an utterly stupid talent simply because it's unbalancable in it's 5.2 form. Imagine if every time a warrior cast avatar, he would get auto-charged to your location no matter where you went. Would that be fair? NO. And this wasn't either. And shadow dance is in fact a more powerful burst cd than avatar.

stop comparing us to a class that has a baseline gap closer cause we dont have one. ( inb4 he says sprint is one, its not )

edit: actually he gave me great idea, make shadowstep baseline and make the current mobility tier about shadowstep. reduced cooldown, 2 charges and a improved one that breaks roots.

[Lulbalance]

It's a "useless" talent because it fails at being desirable by all rogue specs (which should be the target of any talent, if not it should be a specialization skill).

are you being serious right now? you know how many classes have the same or similar problems? poor you.

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 02:05 PM ----------

stop comparing us to a class that has a baseline gap closer cause we dont have one. ( inb4 he says sprint is one, its not )

edit: actually he gave me great idea, make shadowstep baseline and make the current mobility tier about shadowstep. reduced cooldown, 2 charges and a improved one that breaks roots.

sprint doesn't close gaps faster than regular run? that's weird..is your toon facing the right way when you use it? ^^

i actually like your idea of ss having 2 charges.. but break roots.. lol no.

[Deleted]

are you being serious right now? you know how many classes have the same or similar problems? poor you.

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 02:05 PM ----------



sprint doesn't close gaps faster than regular run? that's weird..is your toon facing the right way when you use it? ^^

i actually like your idea of ss having 2 charges.. but break roots.. lol no.

when ever you feel like you need to close a gap most of the time you are either snared or rooted.. in a perfect world where people dont snare / root rogues you might call sprint a gap closer.

[Deleted]

Haha...HAHAHAHA hahah. oh god...ahaahahaa.

Infracted for minor spam.

Since it's clear you didn't get me: rets aren't just soloable in world pvp in 5.2, they will die in the first cheap shot just like any class. If they pop a bubble they will now die in the second cheap shot instead of the first.

Actually rogues in this topic get in rage not because pally buble but because of that minor glyph
Anyway do some of you trying something like another spec in pvp go Assassination and you wont give a copper for CnD

[Dcruize]

I agree with your subterfuge change.

But CnD is an utterly stupid talent simply because it's unbalancable in it's 5.2 form. Imagine if every time a warrior cast avatar, he would get auto-charged to your location no matter where you went. Would that be fair? NO. And this wasn't either. And shadow dance is in fact a more powerful burst cd than avatar.

The difference is, if a warrior auto-charged on his avatar attacks you wouldn't stand a chance because you're already pressured from the warrior outside of his CDs, where as the rogue exerts no pressure at all. CnD isn't the problem, it's eviscerate crits scoring the kills. With 33% reduction on dance ARP and general pvp power nerfs, rogue burst is already nerfed heavily but if these changes go live they'll have much less pressure during dance.

[Faenskap]

RIP, Cloak and Dagger. You were a fun talent, and I'll miss you deeply<3 Alongside this and the nerf to Find Weakness - without compansattion - I might go back to full-time Assa again.

[Lulbalance]

when ever you feel like you need to close a gap most of the time you are either snared or rooted.. in a perfect world where people dont snare / root rogues you might call sprint a gap closer.

fair assertion i guess.

[Valedus]

The most OP spec in the history of the game would be Rets. Rets have been buffed continuously since 2.01 and still, after all these years, retain their Bubble, Lay On Hands and BoF which they can still abuse in world PvP in addition to having the longest stun in the game.

They are still not solo-able in World PvP (maybe other Paladin specs are not soloable too) after all these years, and still, after all these years, do require a healer to take down and maybe an additional DPS as you still have to contend with a spec with unlimited resources, plate armor, and two health bars (through the use of Lay On Hands) so in essence, you have got to do to them twice or maybe three times the damage you would need to do to another player of a different class.

Compare all the above with a Rogue, the squishiest and least-played leather wearing class in the game, and you see how biased you are.

Huh what the hell. Honestly a learn to play issue... nobody in their right mind thinks Ret is in a good spot right now. Whatever you're on, please share... Ret is barely taken to SOME 3's teams and is never taken to RBG's unless you know the leader or are Vanguards.

Also: A rogue with elusiveness takes less damage than a Ret Paladin does, and has more defensive CD's. Bubble doesn't do crap anymore unless you have a healer, as flash heals yourself for like 30-35k. And... you can't bubble and LoH in the same fight unless your opponent sucks and takes a minute to kill you.