1.3 million sub drop

[Deleted]

You obviously did different quests than I did!

I did alliance leveling from 85-90, and did that sniping quest which was different and enjoyable. The amber collecting one for the klaxxi was cool as you had the old warriors telling you their story. You did a rail shooter on a fighter jet for alliance too. There was some poo quests I think, but TBC had them... Cata questing was ok but I felt like I was playing portal hopping between them in stormwind. The expac I enjoyed most while leveling is probably still wrath but thats because im an arthas fanboy.

The fun thing for me back in vanilla and tbc was to find quests that I could do at the same times when I was in the area anyway, it was a fun little exercise. Now a days everything is on rails there is no if I go get those other quests, I can do them at the same time.
Nope all the questsgivers stand within 5 yeards of each other in each mini quest hub, pointing you in the same direction.

It is kinda strange to think back to back in the days where I did desolace in order to get the dungeon quest for the scarlet monastary, but in some way it was fun.

[Deleted]

The fun thing for me back in vanilla and tbc was to find quests that I could do at the same times when I was in the area anyway, it was a fun little exercise. Now a days everything is on rails there is no if I go get those other quests, I can do them at the same time.
Nope all the questsgivers stand within 5 yeards of each other in each mini quest hub, pointing you in the same direction.

It is kinda strange to think back to back in the days where I did desolace in order to get the dungeon quest for the scarlet monastary, but in some way it was fun.

How about zul farrak's mallet?

[khalltusk]

The fun thing for me back in vanilla and tbc was to find quests that I could do at the same times when I was in the area anyway, it was a fun little exercise. Now a days everything is on rails there is no if I go get those other quests, I can do them at the same time.
Nope all the questsgivers stand within 5 yeards of each other in each mini quest hub, pointing you in the same direction.

It is kinda strange to think back to back in the days where I did desolace in order to get the dungeon quest for the scarlet monastary, but in some way it was fun.

It was fairly fun but then rather frustrating for some players so I can see why they made their changes. I prefer the new way they do the questing as I dislike leveling in general. So if the quest gives are all there and tell me where to go im all for it. One thing I disliked in vanilla was having to alt tab to thottbot and go WTF am I supposed to go now? as the quest giver said "GO to X place" and you got there and when finding out nothings there checking thottbot only to find out its on the OTHER END OF THE FUCKING ZONE. Oh yes blizzard I have not forgiven you for that.

[Azureqt]

Maybe if this game wasn't such a casual fest, PvE would be a tad more intriguing.

[Deleted]

How about zul farrak's mallet?

never was a fan of zul ferrak, but I think I did get it on one toon going to the hinterlands for it oh well^^

[Tomana]

No that's not the point.The point is Blizzard is designing their game around casuals and it's showing even in the most hardcore part of the game. Nothing is left untouched by their simplifying plague.

Everquest is that way -->
Also, casuals bring in the most revenue, not designing a game around them today is suicide if you want to have more than 500K subs.

They think casuals and hardcore players are so different,but they're fkin not.The only difference is the time they have to play.

Errrrr... No. Just no. Hardcore players are on average better at playing their character (if only because of the time spent). Now, there are sorts of players, but saying that the time to play is the only factor is silly.

They think of casuals as goldfish that willingly pay every month to log in and do a set dailies because they think dailies are so fkin fun.Same with LFR,they think casuals view that as the climax of their gaming experience.

And what should they do? Block them completely from the game with tedious leveling and hard mobs like in Vanilla?

On the other side they think they're letting the hardcore players be,yet hc raids get nerfed,progression gear and vp is locked behind dailies and LFR,and as a consequence,alts are locked behind dailies and LFR too. It's never been this shitty to have alts,all because of ''casual content''.

Yes, MOP is alt-unfriendly. However, frankly, I would still prefer a lot to do one one character rather than run LFR on 4 toons like I did in 4.3

So yeah Blizzard is currently shitting all over its playerbase,casual or hardcore.

Dunno, hardcores seem to be pretty happy with ToT HC tuning overall.

[Auxora]

One of the simplest and very easy to implement ways Blizzard could help retain new subs and retention is to fix ganking. It's the elephant in the room, and a few 90s may cry, but I hate to imagine how much money Blizzard has lost by not doing something about it years ago. I have many high level characters so it doesn't apply to me, but putting myself in their shoes if I were a new wow player and happened to pick a pvp realm (which sounds more fun to most folks), I would probably think hard about quitting if I got ganked over and over in the first level 20 zone I reach. Even the whole Southpark wow episode a few years back was based on low level characters getting ganked. There are 2 easy options for solutions, either increase the level zone when pvp flagging starts (40/60/80 instead of 20?), or make low-level characters be able to set being unflagged (like chars are unflagged while flying using flight points). It's one thing Guild Wars 2 got right. Keep pvp in the battlegrounds/arenas. A 90 1-shotting a 80 or lower isn't pvp, it isn't fun, it's not even much fun for the person doing it. There can still be the occasional IoT wpvp, sometimes at the Dark Portal, I don't think Tarren Mill much anymore, and those can still happen. But saying to someone new to wow who makes the mistake of picking a pvp realm, enjoy being one-shot over and over while leveling with no real pvp chance to win if attacked, and if you don't like it pay us $25 per character to transfer to pve...is close to Blizzard saying screw you we don't care if you leave wow.

As a side-note, if Blizzard sat through 1 tot lfr they'd also see why subs are leaving in droves too. Seems like most lfrs now devolve into a finger pointing, name calling, kicking people at the slightest thing, face pulling, afk/following collection of the worst of wow community rolled into 30-45 minutes. In fact the last couple lfrs I've been in, i've seen people initiating vote kicks against anyone that speaks just as a joke of how bad it has gotten.

[Solitare-sp]

Tbc was the expansion that came with the following qol features:

FLYING MOUNTS
BADGE GEAR (LOL CASUALS)
REMOVAL OF ATTUENEMENTS (LOL CASUALS)
10 MAN RAIDS (LOL CASUALS)
HEROIC DUNGEONS WITH GEAR (LOL CASUALS)

Tbc gave more to casuals than almost any other expansion I can think of. ESPECIALLY IN TERMS of significance. Wrath added a bunch to but with the exception of lfd nothing was as significant for casuals as heroic dungeons with gear or badge gear.

Well Kinda...

1) You didn't have flying mounts until lvl 70, and then the slow-arse ones. The expensive flying was...well expensive. And of course, the old world was still flying mount free.
2) Badge gear...ok I'll give you that
3) Attunements were still very very much there for at least half (if not more) of the expansion, for both Kara, and for BT.
4) Ten man raids...well 2 of them (and 2 unique ones).. Kara which was huge..and then a big leap to ZA, which was punishing for those which only had ten man gear. (and only there in 2.3 I think as well?)
5) Well limited purples from Heroic dungeons (until MgT came).. and it was quickly dropped for Kara gear.

So, even the items which made it easier, only came in through out the expansion as it grew..yet I never felt there was nothing to do. The rep rewards were optional (like Netherwind, or Skyguards, or Orgilla etc, along with the dungeon reps like Lower city etc, which only gave one or two nice pieces along with receipes.)

[Tomana]

I've tried every "next greatest thing" F2P MMO in the past year or so and have been thoroughly unimpressed with all of them. I don't see this increase in quality people have talked about. F2P is still complete shit imo.

Maybe because you're not Chinese.
This being said, I agree that most F2P games are unimpressive at best.

[Glorious Leader]

GL, sir, you and I have now found something we completely agree on.
God/Goddess/inanimate object of your choice bless transmog.

One of the best additions to the game since well badge gear imho. In fact it's added a whole wealth of new gameplay for me cause I go back and collect that crap. Man getting my warlock decked out and sexy is awesome as hell. One thing they NEED to do is life more restrictions on some of the xmog. I foound a nice pair of leather shoulders that match my xmog a little bit better in SSC but their leather right. The ONLY piece of gear I've actually think looks kinda neat so far is the paladin shulders and belt. [IMG]

[/IMG]

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 02:17 PM ----------

Well Kinda...

1) You didn't have flying mounts until lvl 70, and then the slow-arse ones. The expensive flying was...well expensive. And of course, the old world was still flying mount free.
2) Badge gear...ok I'll give you that
3) Attunements were still very very much there for at least half (if not more) of the expansion, for both Kara, and for BT.
4) Ten man raids...well 2 of them (and 2 unique ones).. Kara which was huge..and then a big leap to ZA, which was punishing for those which only had ten man gear. (and only there in 2.3 I think as well?)
5) Well limited purples from Heroic dungeons (until MgT came).. and it was quickly dropped for Kara gear.

So, even the items which made it easier, only came in through out the expansion as it grew..yet I never felt there was nothing to do. The rep rewards were optional (like Netherwind, or Skyguards, or Orgilla etc, along with the dungeon reps like Lower city etc, which only gave one or two nice pieces along with receipes.)

The thing you have to understand is that while these all had caveats to them THEY WERE ENOURMOUSLY GOOD QOL upgrades and they were in TBC. They were iterated and improved upon but relative to vanilla and what the other mmos were doing those were MASSIVE give aways to make the game far more casual friendly. wow is and always has been a game made for a much more casual market to have a much broader appeal because it's casual and the minute they stop doing that is the minute the game looses subscribers

[Solitare-sp]

It was fairly fun but then rather frustrating for some players so I can see why they made their changes. I prefer the new way they do the questing as I dislike leveling in general. So if the quest gives are all there and tell me where to go im all for it. One thing I disliked in vanilla was having to alt tab to thottbot and go WTF am I supposed to go now? as the quest giver said "GO to X place" and you got there and when finding out nothings there checking thottbot only to find out its on the OTHER END OF THE FUCKING ZONE. Oh yes blizzard I have not forgiven you for that.

Theres a double edged sword with that though. On one half, what you're saying is annoying sure, but on the other it also removes any mystery or variability from the game.

In Vanilla, the world was a mystery, you didn't have a set path or everyone knowing everything about everything. You could discover things by yourself, or with help from others bringing people together and making a community. Now, you know where every quest is, and you can't miss them, and you know what every boss drops, along with the tactics etc etc...

Theres no surprise or discovery or wonder...just the grind.

[Deleted]

They'll be losing another subscription if they ban me.

I told someone I reported them for using an auction house bot. This guy has two accounts running alongside each other and are being controlled by a third party program which runs to the mailbox, collects mail, runs to the auctioneer, posts, cancels and undercuts auctions.
Soon after I told them I reported them for it (I know I should have just left it at the report) he's asking in trade chat with one of his characters about reporting people for harassment (I assume it's me he wants to report).
Right after I had spoken to him about botting the two characters he was using to bot suddenly stopped botting for about 10 minutes. I'm not just sure he's botting, I'd bet everything I have on it.
Knowing Blizzard though, I'll be banned for harassment and he'll go on botting the AH.

[khalltusk]

GL, sir, you and I have now found something we completely agree on.
God/Goddess/inanimate object of your choice bless transmog.

Makes 3 of us. I have bags full of transmog gear. I just want to be able to Transmog my legendaries..... THERE I SAID IT.

I love finding new items to make a set out of apart from aq40 items may they rest in a burning pit somewhere. FUGLY stuff

[Solitare-sp]

One of the best additions to the game since well badge gear imho. In fact it's added a whole wealth of new gameplay for me cause I go back and collect that crap. Man getting my warlock decked out and sexy is awesome as hell. One thing they NEED to do is life more restrictions on some of the xmog. I foound a nice pair of leather shoulders that match my xmog a little bit better in SSC but their leather right. The ONLY piece of gear I've actually think looks kinda neat so far is the paladin shulders and belt. [IMG]

[/IMG]

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 02:17 PM ----------



The thing you have to understand is that while these all had caveats to them THEY WERE ENOURMOUSLY GOOD QOL upgrades and they were in TBC. They were iterated and improved upon but relative to vanilla and what the other mmos were doing those were MASSIVE give aways to make the game far more casual friendly. wow is and always has been a game made for a much more casual market to have a much broader appeal because it's casual and the minute they stop doing that is the minute the game looses subscribers

Yeah that's true indeed, but they also gave great mileposts and sense of achievement. When you got to those places you felt great.

Nowadays its just all a treadmill, with no real YAY!! moments on the way..

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah that's true indeed, but they also gave great mileposts and sense of achievement. When you got to those places you felt great.

Nowadays its just all a treadmill, with no real YAY!! moments on the way..

I think that's whole yay moment phenomenon is grossly overated. Let's take the idea that boss drops were somehow more rewarding than buying gear off a vendor. Well that may have been true for the clique minority who ran the guild and hogged all the gear but for the average raider who saw very little of it and was more or less being used in 25 mans and got little out of it that wasn't the case. That stupid god damn onyxia helm never dropped, when it did i was passed on it for other people or was sat and even after 40 or 50 onyxia kills when I did get it my reaction wasn't yay it was thank you it's over. I felt much better about valor when it was good and let me buy crap from the vendor without rep at a decent pace.

Like where is the yay feeling for the guy who struggles and wipes with his raid group and KNOWS consciously that that first bit of gear isn't going to him but subconsciously still hopes for some reward and get's excited when he sees it and gets his hopes dashed. Well it just leaves him or her with a bitter feeling. Nothing about that experience was satisfying. RNG is gay and the only thign worse was leaving loot in the hands of officers and gms of asshole 25 man guilds. The best thing they did was take power away from those people over how I got my gear.

[khalltusk]

I think that's whole yay moment phenomenon is grossly overated. Let's take the idea that boss drops were somehow more rewarding than buying gear off a vendor. Well that may have been true for the clique minority who ran the guild and hogged all the gear but for the average raider who saw very little of it and was more or less being used in 25 mans and got little out of it that wasn't the case. That stupid god damn onyxia helm never dropped, when it did i was passed on it for other people or was sat and even after 40 or 50 onyxia kills when I did get it my reaction wasn't yay it was thank you it's over. I felt much better about valor when it was good and let me buy crap from the vendor without rep at a decent pace.

It has more to do with how people perceive it over time.

When I killed rag for the first time it was mental.

When I downed Illidan then KJ in swp for the first time in tbc it was brilliant. Fast forward to cata and killing heroic bosses in 10man mode was still cool but I never got the same feeling.

It would be interesting if we could be mind wiped and then put into the game as it is now with no expectations and see how we got on with bosses etc.

[Grogo]

Besides all the issues and direction of this past expansion, as in MOP sucks and it does, bring me back BC

MOP did suck hard for me

BC was fricken awesome

I quit WoW for the first time in 7 years because MOP pissed me off so much

WoW has become waaaay to cutesy...

[Crashdummy]

alementals arent a real thing, they are elementals that are allowed to go in the ale because it gives the ale a unique taste and fizz that cant be obtained through normal brewing.

illidan and vashj HAD NO DAMN PLOTLINE.

chen stormstout wasnt ignoring everything that happened in the world he was exploring, thats what he does, im assuming you belive brann bronzebeard is a two bit hobo because instead of fighting in the war he was exploring archaeology sites and ruins huh?

and yes the retcon of sargeras did ruin something, the original draenei which are now called the broken were relegated from native inhabitants to mutant freaks of godly wind chime worshipers of air poofydom.

no pandaren "wants things to go slow" they want people tp experience life to the fullest, alot of people say retarded things like "the pandaren hate fighting" or "the pandaren want peace" they dont, they just want to fight for a good reason, they fight ALL THE TIME but they dont fight out of hate or revenge or jealousy because when they do they lose themselves, when they fight they have to fight for a purpose.

also they arent alcoholics, the dwarves are, most pandaren brew doesnt even truly get you drunk it heightens your senses or imbues you with power, do they occasionally get drunk? yes they helped invent brewfest of course occasionally they do, but brewing isnt all about getting drunk.

you come off as highly ignorant of the storyline in mists and seem to be completely clueless about nearly everything lore related,


illidan had no storyline in bc he literally showed up twice, technically 3 times. the first time hes just a voice and claims he killed arthas, the 2nd time he tells and orc hes and idiot, and the third time he just checks up on akama.

oh god what a wonderful anti hero turned psycho.

also neither did vashj have a storyline, she had pretty much no lines and did nothing

HAY GUISE TEH NAGA IS STEALINZ DE WATERZ "why" FOAR TEH LULZ

there is literally no excuse ever given as to why that happened, why woudl the naga purposefully destroy comfortable living habitat for themselves and their allies? they werent sending the water anywhere they were just shoving it in a big hole, they werent using it for anything, they couldve easily lived in the swamp without all the trouble of drilling a huge hole in the ground and pumping water from throughout a huge area into a big hole in the ground

Pandaren dont get drunk with their brew? You are the one that doesnty know what you are talking about. Illidan had plotline, he showed up only twice because enemies didnt showed up much at that time in WoW, how many times Ragnaros and Cthun showed up in Vanilla? they didnt have plotline either?, so i dont even know if you ever played TBC to be honest.

Sargeras didnt ruined a single thing, calling the broken broken or draenei doesnt change a thing.

it was confirmed during the last quarter of cata that the majority of the subs lost throughout cata were from the east. so you are wrong again

I have already seen in this thread how much you like to throw things without any backup. In the first quarters, where Cata lot a LOT of subs, the game wasnt even launched in China and China was actually growing in subs (because they still had Wrath, a great expansion) and Blizzard was still earning revenue from the same item (subs and other stuff).

But keep talking about things you dont know without providing any backup like you have been doing the entire thread.

[Glorious Leader]

It has more to do with how people perceive it over time.

When I killed rag for the first time it was mental.

When I downed Illidan then KJ in swp for the first time in tbc it was brilliant. Fast forward to cata and killing heroic bosses in 10man mode was still cool but I never got the same feeling.

It would be interesting if we could be mind wiped and then put into the game as it is now with no expectations and see how we got on with bosses etc.

Yea times change. When we killed rag for the first time it was a pretty good feeling. same for Arch but it was when we killed Arch I started to get a real sense of disenfranchisement with raiding. Not all raid experiences go well. Not all guild and social experiences go well in warcraft and when killed Arch I was happy but at the same time I had also been getting a sense of this is kinda gay these people suck and I'd much rather go play mass effect. So that's what I did. And didn't come back for quite a bit. When I did I got lucky and met a group of players I really gel with socially and that was because of easy puggable 10 man content. It has to be said and it has to be reinforced over and over again. That's how you keep players playing I think.

[Faroth]

The fun thing for me back in vanilla and tbc was to find quests that I could do at the same times when I was in the area anyway, it was a fun little exercise. Now a days everything is on rails there is no if I go get those other quests, I can do them at the same time.
Nope all the questsgivers stand within 5 yeards of each other in each mini quest hub, pointing you in the same direction.

It is kinda strange to think back to back in the days where I did desolace in order to get the dungeon quest for the scarlet monastary, but in some way it was fun.

But now this is all hated as "wasted time" and "wasted travel" that Blizzard puts to force players to spend longer playing and it should be MORE streamlined. I kid you not, I've seen arguments that things in Pandaria are too spread out just to force players to waste time traveling....

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 02:44 PM ----------

One of the best additions to the game since well badge gear imho. In fact it's added a whole wealth of new gameplay for me cause I go back and collect that crap. Man getting my warlock decked out and sexy is awesome as hell. One thing they NEED to do is life more restrictions on some of the xmog. I foound a nice pair of leather shoulders that match my xmog a little bit better in SSC but their leather right. The ONLY piece of gear I've actually think looks kinda neat so far is the paladin shulders and belt.

At the very least I'd like to see warriors/paladins be able to use mail from below level 40 and hunters/shamans use leather from below level 40 as a start on further restriction lifting.

Initially I wanted to see at least one step down. Plate could transmog plate/mail, mail could do mail/leather and leather could do leather/cloth, but I'm sure the cloth classes would cry bias.

Not sure I'm on board with anyone can transmog anything, though. Not a topic for debate in this thread; just saying I can see and agree with both sides of that debate.