1.3 million sub drop

[Frozen Death Knight]

A product that receives regular updates should never feel old if does then the updates have failed.

For example Windows 8 is very different from Windows 1.0 but it is the same product constantly updated should Microsoft have turned around when Windows ME failed to meet expectations and said "you know what guys Windows is, uhm, like really old, it's not our fault" instead they learned their lessons and produced XP probably the most successful operating system to date.

1. WoW is not an OS.

2. Every single OS Microsoft releases is a separate product from the eyes of the company and its investors and the success of their latest OS (like Windows 8) is not solely determined by the success of its successors (i.e. Windows 7). If Microsoft still earns more than they invested in the new product, it still was a success, more or less. WoW, on the other hand, survives based on that people keep subscribing and the expansions are merely revenue boosts that are used to drive people to buy the game and keep subscribing. The economic models are simply different.

3. Windows has been reprogrammed several times since the first version. While some of them could be considered "expansions", some are way too different to even be considered the same OS. Your argument makes no sense here.

4. An OS is essential for your computer to even work, so unless people stop buying new computers with better technology, there will always be a substantial market gain for newer Windows OS. Same cannot be said for WoW, and the game has been on the same engine since its release, and has many technical limitations because of its age.

5. Many of the older Windows OS still exist and they are no longer updated as well as no one is buying them anymore. So yes, what I said still applies here.

6. An OS is designed for practicality, while WoW is a game designed to be fun. The latter being a bit more complicated than it sounds when you also face a massive burnout of WoW-like MMOs among gamers. A hammer does not necessarily need to be updated when its design is completely practical, which is why they still are sold when they fill their practical purpose. The practicality of an OS like Windows makes the argument you're making weak at best.

[Pann]

1. WoW is not an OS.

2. Every single OS Microsoft releases is a separate product from the eyes of the company and its investors and the success of their latest OS (like Windows 8) is not solely determined by the success of its successors (i.e. Windows 7). If Microsoft still earns more than they invested in the new product, it still was a success, more or less. WoW, on the other hand, survives based on that people keep subscribing and the expansions are merely revenue boosts that are used to drive people to buy the game and keep subscribing. The economic models are simply different.

3. Windows has been reprogrammed several times since the first version. While some of them could be considered "expansions", some are way too different to even be considered the same OS. Your argument makes no sense here.

4. An OS is essential for your computer to even work, so unless people stop buying new computers with better technology, there will always be a substantial market gain for newer Windows OS. Same cannot be said for WoW, and the game has been on the same engine since its release, and has many technical limitations because of its age.

5. Many of the older Windows OS still exist and they are no longer updated as well as no one is buying them anymore. So yes, what I said still applies here.

6. An OS is designed for practicality, while WoW is a game designed to be fun. The latter being a bit more complicated than it sounds when you also face a massive burnout of WoW-like MMOs among gamers. A hammer does not necessarily need to be updated when its design is completely practical, which is why they still are sold when they fill their practical purpose. The practicality of an OS like Windows makes the argument you're making weak at best.

Oh, thanks for that I really would not have known the difference had it not been for your detailed explanation.

I think you might have missed the point a bit, WOW receives regular updates as such being old should not become an issue. Many products/services/brands have seen success over multiple decades and continue to be successful to this day because they are updated Windows is just an example of one such product.

[Deleted]

1. WoW is not an OS.

If the World of Warcraft Intellectual Property remains popular then WoW will be updated.

End of story.

[Frozen Death Knight]

If the World of Warcraft Intellectual Property remains popular then WoW will be updated.

End of story.

What does that have to do with what I actually said? I stated in my previous post on this topic that I was referring to product life cycles, so I never said anything about that WoW should not be updated anymore. In fact, it's the exact opposite of what I want.

---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 07:48 PM ----------

Oh, thanks for that I really would not have known the difference had it not been for your detailed explanation.

I think you might have missed the point a bit, WOW receives regular updates as such being old should not become an issue. Many products/services/brands have seen success over multiple decades and continue to be successful to this day because they are updated Windows is just an example of one such product.

You're welcome.

The point has not quite escaped me. I agree that regular updates are made to combat that and I also think Blizzard has done a remarkable job at keeping this game relevant for this long. Still, you can't really say that those updates completely prevent the game from ever feeling old as well as showing it.

Luckily, the game still is quite relevant and I expect it to be like that for some time forward, but eventually it will be too outdated for current standards that it can not really fight itself to the top anymore. No king rules forever, after all.

[Conscious]

Oh, thanks for that I really would not have known the difference had it not been for your detailed explanation.

I think you might have missed the point a bit, WOW receives regular updates as such being old should not become an issue. Many products/services/brands have seen success over multiple decades and continue to be successful to this day because they are updated Windows is just an example of one such product.

The updates WoW does get, do nothing to address the aging factor, they merely provide content conducive to continued play.

[killidan]

The updates WoW does get, do nothing to address the aging factor, they merely provide content conducive to continued play.

Graphics updates and model updates say "Hi".

[Frozen Death Knight]

Graphics updates and model updates say "Hi".

While the newer technology used to make character models are pretty good (especially from an animation and artistical standpoint), the main reason why this game still looks somewhat good is because of its art direction.

From a technical standpoint, the game is quite outmatched when other newer MMOs use more advanced engines and technology, so if Blizzard did not have good artists and art director to design the aesthetics the game would have been looking completely attrocious years ago.

[Conscious]

Graphics updates and model updates say "Hi".

Graphics updates?! LOL?

What, an improved water texture? Lighting tuning?

The friggin engine hasn't changed, nor will it probably ever.

You can paint the shit out of an old car, and guess what it's still an OLD car!

[Jtbrig7390]

I rarely do dailies, next excuse?

Since when did you become me.......I stated my reasons to why I unsubbed and why many others may have unsubbed.

Next lame ass reply because you have since you lost this argument........

In case you didn't know because maybe your school didn't teach you but a reason is not a excuse those 2 words mean different things.

rea·son
/ˈrēzən/
Noun
A cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
Verb
Think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic: "humans do not reason entirely from facts"; "the reasoning behind the review".

ex·cuse
/ikˈskyo͞oz/
Verb
Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Noun
A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.

[Deleted]

...but eventually it will be too outdated for current standards that it can not really fight itself to the top anymore. No king rules forever, after all.

Then the graphics engine will be remade and the world will be updated.

They are making a new Star Wars film for a reason. The IP is still popular and still resonates with a modern audience.

[Jtbrig7390]

Then the graphics engine and world will be updated and/or remade.

They are making a new Star Wars film for a reason. The IP is still popular and resonates with a modern audience.

A movie is not a game.

Perfect example look at the next call of duty "COD Ghost" its being made on a whole new engine because they have pushed the last one as far as it will go with BO2 and they want COD to do new things like buildings blowing up in online match's.

Wow will reach a point where they have done as much as they could with the game engine and you can't just flip a switch and put in a new engine. They would have to remake wow from the ground up if they where to add a brand new game engine.

[Pann]

The updates WoW does get, do nothing to address the aging factor, they merely provide content conducive to continued play.

To a certain extent I agree but the graphics of today although far from cutting edge are leaps and bounds ahead of that of classic. I know what you mean by painting an old car but I think that the style of graphics give WOW a timeless feel compared to many other more realistic games.

I am not talking about reinventing the wheel, there are many things that should help keep the game fresh story lines, for example, but they are a mess throughout the levelling process. It does not help that the world is unchanging, they have created a beautiful world and apart from Cata nothing has changed with it, where are the seasons? How much effort would it be for the peaks of the mountains in Stonetalon to be covered in snow during winter? The water level in Uldum to lower during summer?

Ultimately saying the game is old is an excuse, Eve is older and growing if you asked any of its players if it was old they would not say "yes" and list off a bunch of excuses as to why CCP is powerless. In any other walk of life if a company spent millions of dollars and thousands of man hours updating their product and customers said that it still felt old the people responsible would have serious questions to answer. I am not saying that there are not problems that relate to WOW's age but that is a problem for Blizzard to solve not for players use as an excuse when faced with the complaints of others.

[Deleted]

A movie is not a game.

Intellectual Property is Intellectual Property. Games can be modernized.

Are you trying to claim that WoW can't be updated and therefore we should accept mediocrity because it's inevitable? That's called making excuses for Blizzard.

If the IP is still popular then it will be updated. That's how business works.

Perfect example look at the next call of duty "COD Ghost" its being made on a whole new engine because they have pushed the last one as far as it will go with BO2 and they want COD to do new things like buildings blowing up in online match's.

Wow will reach a point where they have done as much as they could with the game engine and you can't just flip a switch and put in a new engine. They would have to remake wow from the ground up if they where to add a brand new game engine.

There are always new players to replace the old ones, and gameplay can be updated. Some IPs always appeal more to certain demographics.

Resident Evil is still alive. So is Silent Hill. Etc.

[killidan]

While the newer technology used to make character models are pretty good (especially from an animation and artistical standpoint), the main reason why this game still looks somewhat good is because of its art direction.

From a technical standpoint, the game is quite outmatched when other newer MMOs use more advanced engines and technology, so if Blizzard did not have good artists and art director to design the aesthetics the game would have been looking completely attrocious years ago.

I agree, they have great art.

They also put more effort into making the graphics free of glitches/bugs. SWTOR, supposedly, had superior graphics engine, yet it had several glitches and bugs on my video card, which was above what was recommended for SWTOR.

[Osmeric]

SWTOR, supposedly, had superior graphics engine

The SWTOR engine was one of the biggest flaws in that game. It was horribly unoptimized.

[killidan]

I'm sorry you feel that Blizzard is still the noble company of old, but times have changed man...

We can't change the company, but we can vote with our wallets. Yet, they don't care.

They did cater to casuals who have no time to play games, who have no commitment/loyalty to games, who only want to play for half hour and GET EVERYTHING, loot, title, more loot, etc (because they pay $15). Hardcores left already. Now Blizz is wondering why they are still losing subs as they give casuals everything they ask for. Casuals never had any commitment/loyalty to the game as they jump from game to game and don't have much time to play the game in the first place and will unsub and not feel bad about it.

This was an MMO, played with in-game friends. From what I see on the forums, friends is the number one reason people give when they say they don't like the game but still hang around. It is because of the guild, friends, family, etc. In WotLK/Cata/MOP, Blizz changed the game for people who do not have a guild, do not have friends, everything is LFD/LFR. Then Blizz wonders why people are unsubbing more and more. They removed the number one reason people hang onto the game: the friends. Now there are no friendships in the game, only LFD/LFR strangers and the moment a player does not like a change or completes faceroll content and there is nothing to do, they simply unsub. There is nothing that connects them to the game, no in-game friends, no guilds, and they leave. Just like that.

[Jtbrig7390]

We can't change the company, but we can vote with our wallets. Yet, they don't care.

They did cater to casuals who have no time to play games, who have no commitment/loyalty to games, who only want to play for half hour and GET EVERYTHING, loot, title, more loot, etc (because they pay $15). Hardcores left already. Now Blizz is wondering why they are still losing subs as they give casuals everything they ask for. Casuals never had any commitment/loyalty to the game as they jump from game to game and don't have much time to play the game in the first place and will unsub and not feel bad about it.

This was an MMO, played with in-game friends. From what I see on the forums, friends is the number one reason people give when they say they don't like the game but still hang around. It is because of the guild, friends, family, etc. In WotLK/Cata/MOP, Blizz changed the game for people who do not have a guild, do not have friends, everything is LFD/LFR. Then Blizz wonders why people are unsubbing more and more. They removed the number one reason people hang onto the game: the friends. Now there are no friendships in the game, only LFD/LFR strangers and the moment a player does not like a change or completes faceroll content and there is nothing to do, they simply unsub. There is nothing that connects them to the game, no in-game friends, no guilds, and they leave. Just like that.

I want some proof to all your claims about casuals.

News flash and I am really tired of saying it wow has always been casual. unless you can prove that all the hardcore players are gone and everything is to blame on casuals like your saying then I want you to prove that wild claim.

until you can do that take your hate speak about casuals somewhere else.

[killidan]

I want some proof to all your claims about casuals.

News flash and I am really tired of saying it wow has always been casual. unless you can prove that all the hardcore players are gone and everything is to blame on casuals like your saying then I want you to prove that wild claim.

until you can do that take your hate speak about casuals somewhere else.

Why do I have the onus to prove anything when you just say stuff and expect others to accept it as fact? lol it's a public forum and you won't find any proof on a matter that is subjective and without a working definition as "casual".

Wild claim? lol

Hate speak? lol

thanks for the fun, gnight man

[Ragashii]

Why do I have the onus to prove anything when you just say stuff and expect others to accept it as fact? lol it's a public forum and you won't find any proof on a matter that is subjective and without a working definition as "casual".

Wild claim? lol

Hate speak? lol

thanks for the fun, gnight man

Because you're stating your opinion as fact. Jtbrig7390's posts at least have substance and are more than just rants.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Why do I have the onus to prove anything when you just say stuff and expect others to accept it as fact? lol it's a public forum and you won't find any proof on a matter that is subjective and without a working definition as "casual".

Wild claim? lol

Hate speak? lol

thanks for the fun, gnight man

Most hypocritical thing I have heard this day and I just woke up.