1.3 million sub drop

[Osmeric]

Hmmmmmm, well Q1 ended officially March 31st. You think they have sub numbers right now, as in May 8th, that are significantly lower and that's why they said this?

That was my thought, yes.

[Glorious Leader]

Finally to parts I can agree. We are the middle class of raiding. We aren't hardcores but we sure ain't casuals.

I guess yea theirs a new term. I don't know brother I still consider myself casual. I spend less time on wow than I do posting on forums for instance. I literally log to raid and less and less to do lfr because well lfr is lame. Am I an extreme casual who shows up one hour a day to play? well no but I think that group is an outlier as well. And even still that group wants to know how to play whatever class or role and will google whatever to get it done. I mean the game does such a piss poor job of teaching them how to play. They have to go somewhere.

[nekobaka]

And casual - "Occurring by chance", "Occurring at irregular or infrequent intervals", "Showing little interest or concern; nonchalant".

Now lets apply that last part to how "casuals" can be so up in arms over gear and seeing all the content.

[Vankrys]

I guess yea theirs a new term.

casual --- dedicated --- hardcore

new category of players created right here, copyright vankrys

[Glorious Leader]

i never argue that casual are bad player that don't know to play their class.
nevertheless, assuming that raiding on schedule, a light scedule 1-2 time a week, is casual raiding (for you, not me, but for sake of argument i will agree), so you add it to my little list a few page back about casual activity in MoP. so we are in agreement.

So there is one more item casual in the list
So the game is more casual than ever, isn't it?

so why casual player don't stay?

Because it isn't casual. Look just because you can raid 1-2 twice a week doesn't mean your gonna get anywhere in this expansion and you aren't. Not only is this particular raid tier punishing it's also kinda time consuming as well. It's a large raid with alot of fucking trash to get through. Just because you can do something casually in this game doesn't make it a rewarding exercise. Mists may offer lots of casual content but guess what none of it is rewarding or worth doing. Hell even raiding is only worth doing because of the people I raid with. If it wasn't for them I would have left.

[Deleted]

I guess yea theirs a new term. I don't know brother I still consider myself casual. I spend less time on wow than I do posting on forums for instance. I literally log to raid and less and less to do lfr because well lfr is lame. Am I an extreme casual who shows up one hour a day to play? well no but I think that group is an outlier as well. And even still that group wants to know how to play whatever class or role and will google whatever to get it done. I mean the game does such a piss poor job of teaching them how to play. They have to go somewhere.

Look, if you have an interest to improve yourself and you schedule your free time around WoW raiding you aren't taking casual approach to game.

[sandmoth12]

Not letting 10 and 25 saves in same week was first hit.

Removing skrims was second hit.

Generic content, rehashed mechanics is another hit.

Killing friend making buy turning dungeons and raids into burger king drive thru's is another hit.

Changing the focus on gear, making time served a huge scale in power and wreaking what little was left of pvp was another.

The game might still have good declining numbers but it has no heart. It's a matter of time.

I agree. Vanilla and TBC had heart and soul. Now in wow I feel like I am at fast food drive thru.

[Glorious Leader]

casual --- dedicated --- hardcore

new category of players created right here, copyright vankrys

I'm not even really sure dedicated is good enough. Like dedicated to do what? I don't cap valor anymore and don't care to it's just to much of a pain in the ass. I'm not dedicated enough to run lfr for the couple of pieces I do need or run dailies for charms. About the only thing I'm dedicated to doing is showing up and doing my job as best as I can.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 01:43 AM ----------

Look, if you have an interest to improve yourself and you schedule your free time around WoW raiding you aren't taking casual approach to game.

Again that's not true. I can use beer league as an example. Or even street hockey as a kid. We'd play after school (although it wasn't formally scheduled) and we'd of course always try and get better but we were also EXTREMELY casual about it to. We'd often just shoot the ball around or just chit chat about whatever while taking shots on net. It is possible to be both. The concepts are not mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

casual --- dedicated --- hardcore

new category of players created right here, copyright vankrys

No no, Glorious Leader and me contributed to this category. It would be appropriate that we are on sig too!

[Deleted]

Not letting 10 and 25 saves in same week was first hit.

Removing skrims was second hit.

Generic content, rehashed mechanics is another hit.

Killing friend making buy turning dungeons and raids into burger king drive thru's is another hit.

Changing the focus on gear, making time served a huge scale in power and wreaking what little was left of pvp was another.

The game might still have good declining numbers but it has no heart. It's a matter of time.

The game has no heart... This is pretty much the most accurate description of wow in it's current state.
A lifeless blob of fancy colours and shiny baubles.

If they keep it like this why would people come back?

[Ragashii]

Now lets apply that last part to how "casuals" can be so up in arms over gear and seeing all the content.

Well with a pay to play model people rightfully expect to see what they're paying for. If it were F2P than you would have an argument.
Why pay for something you don't get to experience? Especially in this day and age where there are countless F2P games that cater to everything.

[Glorious Leader]

No no, Glorious Leader and me contributed to this category. It would be appropriate that we are on sig too!

LOL HAHAHAH gotta get cred right!

[Vankrys]

Because it isn't casual. [...] Just because you can do something casually in this game doesn't make it a rewarding exercise. Mists may offer lots of casual content but guess what none of it is rewarding or worth doing.

don't get it.

first you say it's not casual
then you say it is casual but non rewarding or not worth doing.

Does casual implies necessary fast reward. Can you casually progress slowly to a reward, or no reward at all for that matter.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 03:46 AM ----------

No no, Glorious Leader and me contributed to this category. It would be appropriate that we are on sig too!

alright, let's casually share the glory

[Verain]

These numbers always freak people out. Mostly, it's an excuse for someone to claim:

"Blizzard broke the game by adding feature X"

This is always funny. X has changed. Currently, X is dailies, or LFR. Previously, X was arenas. Or server transfers. Or battlegrounds. Or changing from 40 to 25 man raiding, or 25 to 10. I'm not going to tell you that LFR is amazing, or that it was cool when Blizzard shit all over your 25 man guild by providing equal rewards to smaller groups. But I would have a hard time believing that these things netted lost scrippies. And even if they DID, the number of players that do these end game activities isn't so huge, or so fragile, that they would result in this sort of thing.

WoW's Asia populace is pretty much 100% different from the rest of everything. They pay a fraction of the amount we do, and get not exactly all of the content.

[Deleted]

I'm not even really sure dedicated is good enough. Like dedicated to do what? I don't cap valor anymore and don't care to it's just to much of a pain in the ass. I'm not dedicated enough to run lfr for the couple of pieces I do need or run dailies for charms. About the only thing I'm dedicated to doing is showing up and doing my job as best as I can.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 01:43 AM ----------



Again that's not true. I can use beer league as an example. Or even street hockey as a kid. We'd play after school (although it wasn't formally scheduled) and we'd of course always try and get better but we were also EXTREMELY casual about it to. We'd often just shoot the ball around or just chit chat about whatever while taking shots on net. It is possible to be both. The concepts are not mutually exclusive.

I disagree. There are proffesionals and amateurs in sports. In WoW there aren't any proffesionals.

[Sansnom]

A short example, Eve Online. Ever heard of CSM? CSM (Council of Stellar Management) it is formed by a group of ppl selected by the players then voted to choose 1 leader, that have access to direct meetings with CCP (Eve's Blizzard) and tell them what the real problem is from player's pov. Of course not all goes CSM's way, but yes LOTS of stuff are done and fixed. It is just an example of how an competitor chooses to deal with their players. Yet, GC got stuck on "we believe" which implies that the players meaning has little to none importance!

Yes, I am aware of the CSM. If I recall, Vile Rat was a past leader who unfortunately died recently. I am truly amazed at how the player base in Eve has evolved but the same cannot really applied here. I don't think the CSM was originally part of the game.

It evolved that way because the way the player base has evolved. A guild in Eve means much much more than one in Blizzards. In some way, it is an in game political body and as such, some guild wields quite large power in the game. With that power comes responsibility. With responsibility comes accountability which leads to trust. Players in the game soon come to learn about certain players in the game and can trust these players to represent them with the company.

If we were to elect a group of players to represent the players, who do we elect? People from world first guild? People who makes their regular broadcast, such as Lore?

[Glorious Leader]

don't get it.

first you say it's not casual
then you say it is casual but non rewarding or not worth doing.

Does casual implies necessary fast reward. Can you casually progress slowly to a reward, or no reward at all for that matter.

Yes it does. Or it should. I mean by that standard I could say vanilla was the most casually friendly expansion ever. You could do it all in your own time. Do you consider say farming furlbog casual friendly? Or even cata. Cata was extremely casual friendly you could do all that in your own time to.

Being casual friendly MUST MUST MUST (imho) imply that you get reward for your time invested as limited as it may be. If it doesn't well then people start to ask why should I log in for an hour today to climb this fucking mountain that I won't even been done with before the next patch?

[nekobaka]

casual --- dedicated --- hardcore

new category of players created right here, copyright vankrys

I prefer the word gamer in terms of a hobby. Cares to improve themselves, work together with others, and overcome challenges.

[Glorious Leader]

I disagree. There are proffesionals and amateurs in sports. In WoW there aren't any proffesionals.

So then who am I hero worshipping in wow? LOL kinda circular isn't it?

[Deleted]

I prefer the word gamer in terms of a hobby. Cares to improve themselves, work together with others, and overcome challenges.

You just want cred, admit it