1.3 million sub drop

[nekobaka]

Yea I don't buy that lame excuse. First of all I've never actually read that from them? Is it actually something they said? Furthermore guilds aren't not so homogenous. They contain a variety of players at a variety of skills. People were happily raiding normals with their diverse group of players and then wham raids got hard and people got sat and well Glorious Leader had to take over. That's where that name comes from. All hail him.

I found one source for difficulty design for normal modes after LFR came out. Going to look later for the source on normals being made harder.

http://www.connected-guild.enjin.com...-blizzard-sale

With the advent of LFR, casual players can see all of the content, while Heroic raids seem to be harder now. Is this type of difficulty something you want to move forward doing?

GC:The advantage of having three difficulty levels is that we can tailor each one to the audience. Before LFR we could target Normal difficulty raids at organized guilds, which left nothing for PuGs to do, or we could target them at PuGs, making them too easy for organized guilds. This would leave normal guilds only Heroic difficulty for a challenging encounter, leaving nothing for the more hardcore guilds to do. The three difficulty levels let us tailor each difficulty so that everyone has something to do.

This does show that GC overlooks the many casual PuG raiders out there as if they do not exist. Well maybe the extinction of normal PuG raiding was Blizzards goal.

[javen]

I'm wondering if this not only signifies that WoW is losing it's iron grip on the market share, but shows a general shift in players attitudes towards MMOs? MMOs used to be kind of like consoles; you pick one or two, stick with them, and get in giant arguments with other people about how yours is the best and theirs is the worst. Nowaddays, the MMO populace are extremely nomadic; moving from game to game without ever really settling into a community or any one IP.

[Glorious Leader]

The step is just too big. And due to the sheer ridiculousness of the random loot in LFR, the tier cycle would be over by the time you got enough LFR gear to get yourself ready to join a normal raiding guild.

That's another one two don't get me started. This whole roll protection scheme should have been in since the beta. Like who the hell things rng makes for good catch up?

[Zoldor]

The only comment I find to be utter BS, is players consume content faster and unsub and resub. Players consume SOME of the content faster. IE daily quests and LFR, but actual raiding isn't being consumed faster in normal or heroic. In fact the faster content releases plus the grind nature of alts, and the increase in LFR play is making actual raiding slower. Sadly. Maybe this is just a problem on my realm maybe not. Still the statement players consume content faster I think is a stretch...they consume the LFR and do enough dailies to get to revered or maybe exalted and stop. Still that is the nature of the game now.

[Nyteyes]

Can't say I am surprised, subscriptions went up when MoP came out, wasn't long after that I noticed a lot of people I knew personally and a lot guilds I knew of disbanding. Most of them had the same response when I asked why they left or were quitting: MoP sucks.

[javen]

The step is just too big. And due to the sheer ridiculousness of the random loot in LFR, the tier cycle would be over by the time you got enough LFR gear to get yourself ready to join a normal raiding guild.

Using LFR as a stepping stone into normals NEVER made sense, though, since so many people who raid exclusively LFR do so for time-based reasons rather than difficulty. Completely gearing out in LFR doesn't suddenly give you four hours three nights a week to dedicate to raiding, so there's no stepping stone there.

[Glorious Leader]

I found one source for difficulty design for normal modes after LFR came out. Going to look later for the source on normals being made harder.
With the advent of LFR, casual players can see all of the content, while Heroic raids seem to be harder now. Is this type of difficulty something you want to move forward doing?
http://www.connected-guild.enjin.com...-blizzard-sale

I have to ask how much harder are heroic raids than normal? My understanding and what I've asked around is that for the most part not all that much. When we kill lei shen I'm lead to believe we can kill alot of those bosses on heroic very easily. Right now it seems like they have two difficulties for one group and a one difficulty for easy.

[NeverStop]

I have to ask how much harder are heroic raids than normal? My understanding and what I've asked around is that for the most part not all that much. When we kill lei shen I'm lead to believe we can kill alot of those bosses on heroic very easily. Right now it seems like they have two difficulties for one group and a one difficulty for easy.

Huge step up between Normal and Heroic. We've been stuck on Heroic Horridon for 6 weeks now and I think my guild's gonna break up. I guess I know how the 1/12 N guilds feel. Blizzard please nerf Horridon, my group will never have the skill to kill him and we'll all quit because of that roadblock boss.

[Maelstrom51]

I have to ask how much harder are heroic raids than normal? My understanding and what I've asked around is that for the most part not all that much. When we kill lei shen I'm lead to believe we can kill alot of those bosses on heroic very easily. Right now it seems like they have two difficulties for one group and a one difficulty for easy.

Heroic is a whole hell of a lot harder than normal mode outside of the first couple bosses. On the later bosses the difficulty jump is on par with the difficulty jump of LFR -> normal.

[Ragedaug]

Can't say I am surprised, subscriptions went up when MoP came out, wasn't long after that I noticed a lot of people I knew personally and a lot guilds I knew of disbanding. Most of them had the same response when I asked why they left or were quitting: MoP sucks.

I honestly don't think I heard to many "this game sucks" reasons. Most of the players on my real ID left the game and most of their responses to why they left was "meh". None of the zillions of new things to do held their interest. Most of the people on my friends list were "beer league" raiders who had kids, etc. and could only raid 2-4 hours a week. After seeing clearly that we weren't going to go anywhere through the first 4 months, most got bored of the game & stopped logging in.

[soulzek]

Modern morality and manners suppress all natural instincts, keep people ignorant of the facts of nature and make them fighting drunk on bogey tales.

[Glorious Leader]

Huge step up between Normal and Heroic. We've been stuck on Heroic Horridon for 6 weeks now and I think my guild's gonna break up. I guess I know how the 1/12 N guilds feel. Blizzard please nerf Horridon, my group will never have the skill to kill him and we'll all quit because of that roadblock boss.

Right but you can skip horridon, run him on normal and farm one of the easier bosses on heroic can't you? LIke is every boss on heroic that much harder?

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 05:11 AM ----------

Heroic is a whole hell of a lot harder than normal mode outside of the first couple bosses. On the later bosses the difficulty jump is on par with the difficulty jump of LFR -> normal.

So if we kill lei shen we should be able to do 4/12 relatively easily? 6/12?

[masterman]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...36612869083137

Pair that up with his recent tweet about wishing Blizzard made more five mans for the patch for some more fuel to this thread.

Deathbringer Saurfang, Festergut, and Blood-queen was also DPS races. Most PuGs on my realm could not make the raid-DPS requirements for Festergut pre raid buff even if they did not screw up on spores.

Just because blizzard removed the daily limit doesn't mean people are burned out. You don't have to do dailies. This is WoW, you can do what you want. Pet Battles, run old dungeons/raids for transmog, try to solo old content, LFR, actual raiding, hardcore raiding, casual PvP, competitive PvP (RBG / Arena), questing, playing the auction house, leveling up an alt, grinding achievements / reputations, collecting mounts / pets honestly there is so much content in WoW that it's unbelievable that people are complaining about one small thing (wah too many dailies even though they're optional)

[Glorious Leader]

Modern morality and manners suppress all natural instincts, keep people ignorant of the facts of nature and make them fighting drunk on bogey tales.

Someone has read to much Nietzsche.

[SherbertLand]

Right but you can skip horridon, run him on normal and farm one of the easier bosses on heroic can't you? LIke is every boss on heroic that much harder?

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 05:11 AM ----------



So if we kill lei shen we should be able to do 4/12 relatively easily? 6/12?

You're going to get more accurate information from actually doing them. What your raid group can accomplish varies.

[masterman]

people gotta remember how old this game is and people just get older and move on or get bored, but its crazy when u think wow has lost more subs than most other mmos have and they still got 8 million left wow is boss

This game is not that old. MoP hasn't even been out for an entire year and already they lost more subs than any other x-pac. Blizzard made huge mistakes with MoP and I hope they learn from them for the next expansion. Maybe next time they'll think twice before they screw up PvP again.

[Mormolyce]

Awesome more threads about the sub drop.

Subs going up or down has absolutely 0 effect on my experience of the game. But apparently it's vital in the giant pissing contest on the internet.

Subs going up or down also has very little to do with the actual content and more to do with the expansion cycle and the overall lifespan of the game.

[Vankrys]

the sub will continue to drop. Reason i believe that

1. Q1 2013 is the official end of the annual pass. There could be very much still some sub lock in the Q1 2013 resulting of the annual pass. The annual pass sign up ended officially on march 2012.

2. 5.2 has just been released in Q1, 5.3 might be released in Q2 but don't contain new raid as i understand. they won't be able to bring dramatic change to the game that early, beside a few boss nerf, or loot buff (which i'm not sure is the best route)

3. blizzcon is in november, E3 in june, they won't be much occasion for blizz to build up some hype to increase sub

4. blizzard is preparing us for more subs loss stating that they are expecting more loss.

5. age of wushu released in april in EU/NA, not sure if it will have a strong impact, but it might have at least some.

given these information, i expect a loss at least 500k for Q2. of course i can be very much wrong, but i don't see much positivism from blizzard.

[NeverStop]

Right but you can skip horridon, run him on normal and farm one of the easier bosses on heroic can't you? LIke is every boss on heroic that much harder?

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 05:11 AM ----------



So if we kill lei shen we should be able to do 4/12 relatively easily? 6/12?

We can only farm Heroic Jin'rokh and everyone is 520+ ilvl so Normal Mode gear is useless for us. We tried Ji-Kun and Tortos but we wipe in like the first 2 minute on both of those. We can't get past the 3rd gate on Horridon.

We're honestly thinking about quitting until these bosses get major NERFS because they're OVERTUNED and not doable by the average raider. It's not absolutely not our skill that's lacking, it's Blizzards stupid tuning that's preventing us from killing Heroic bosses.

We have over 100 wipes on Horridon so far. The boss is just not doable. Being stuck on 1/13 H for 6 weeks is going to make us unsub.

[Ragashii]

Awesome more threads about the sub drop.

Subs going up or down has absolutely 0 effect on my experience of the game. But apparently it's vital in the giant pissing contest on the internet.

Subs going up or down also has very little to do with the actual content and more to do with the expansion cycle and the overall lifespan of the game.

You post in this thread like there's not 60 pages of discussion. Second, you're naive if you think that less subs won't affect your gameplay. You know it takes money to make content right? Where does that money come from? I'll give you a minute to put two and two together.