1.3 million sub drop

[Deleted]

Ugh, 10 mans in WoTLK shouldn't even be called raids. "We could take anybody" - see? That was the problem, you could take every idiot that stood in shit and couldn't play his class. I like more challenging normal content, not AoE zerg ezmod "raids".

What you like doesn't matter.

it's what the average guild can pull together that counts. A raid where you can bring one or two people who are less than amazing means that all the ten man guilds up and down azeroth can carry on raiding, their little communities carry on playing and wows subs stay up.

Twice now blizzard have tried to take raiding back in time and twice they've had a massive crash in sub numbers. If blizzard have any sense at all, SoO will be at DS levels of playability and they'll completely abandon all ideas of having 25 man raids matter.

[Ragashii]

That is EXACTLY what we talked about in guild. 10 man normals in wrath. Just enough challenge but we could take anybody.

Everytime I read something from you I read it in Patrick Stewarts voice damn you. I sure do miss those days of using 10 mans to trial people before we took them into our 25 mans. It was a much more relaxed and fun experience for everyone involved.

[Deleted]

Twice now blizzard have tried to take raiding back in time and twice they've had a massive crash in sub numbers. If blizzard have any sense at all, SoO will be at DS levels of playability and they'll completely abandon all ideas of having 25 man raids matter.

No, just no. If you want to play easy raids, do guild LFR (it's on par with WoTLK 10 mans). There's no need to bring game down for others because you have some idiots in guild that can't keep up with everyone else.

[Kaynot]

I believe introducing more battle pets and daily quests (esp cooking and fishing ones) will bring those subscribers back.

[Deleted]

No, just no. If you want to play easy raids, do guild LFR (it's on par with WoTLK 10 mans). There's no need to bring game down for others because you have some idiots in guild that can't keep up with everyone else.

I quite like harder normal modes, personally, as a player.

But, just as it doesn't matter what you like doesn't matter what **I** like either.

LFR isn't team content, it doesn't keep guilds together. Raids which foster prolonged co operation over time but which a lot of players can complete = higher sub numbers. or at least that's the lesson from cata and now mop.

[Leslie]

Subscriptions started to decline during Cataclysm. During this period, people blamed the drop primarily to age, with other factors being considered. However, since the release of Mists of Pandaria, the majority of this forums seem to find the game play of Cataclysm to be the fault.

So if (and it's a big if) the game play was lackluster, then subscriptions naturally fell and Blizzard was tasked to retain and recruit subscriptions with various promotions. If (again) this is true, then the decline during Cataclysm may or may not have been just as harsh as the current one if not for the aforementioned promotions.

I have no idea why current subscriptions are falling, but if the CEO of Acti/Blizz says subscriptions are going to keep falling, they're probably going to keep falling.

Until the sub numbers hit zero, this forum and this discussion will exist. So, until then, please be nice to each other.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one that noiced "most of unsubs come from China" ?Less Bots maybe?Less goldfarmer maybe?

In any case, I personally dont play Wow for numbers. I still enjoy with my friends.

[Ragashii]

I quite like harder normal modes, personally, as a player.

But, just as it doesn't matter what you like doesn't matter what **I** like either.

LFR isn't team content, it doesn't keep guilds together. Raids which foster prolonged co operation over time but which a lot of players can complete = higher sub numbers. or at least that's the lesson from cata and now mop.

......................................LFR .............Normal ............Heroic
Right now raids look like this EASY--------HARD---------HARDER. If the "average" guild can't clear the current normal tier then what is that tier being balanced against? If the "average" guild isn't supposed to clear the current tier until they get full upgrades and the content is fully nerfed then what does the "average" guild do in the meantime? If ToT isn't cleared by "average" guilds then it is too hard. People don't like dying over and over to a brickwall. There's a reason certain bosses were called guildbreakers back in the day.

This is where beer league comes in. It keeps the "average" guild happy and subscribed. Agreeing with you btw.

[Ryme]

If majority of lost subs were from East, i don't even care. They have different paying system, so that isn't even big deal.

Their money still pays for your content.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 10:39 AM ----------

This is where beer league comes in. It keeps the "average" guild happy and subscribed. Agreeing with you btw.

Could someone please explain beer league to me?

[luciano]

Honestly, most of the people leaving are either Asians or whiny white teenagers...and I don't miss either.

Both my alliance and horde guilds are strong and growing.

[Deleted]

Their money still pays for your content.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 10:39 AM ----------



Could someone please explain beer league to me?

It's a raid that requires some effort to complete, but which the average player can still get through while having a drink on a friday night.

i.e. not fucking garalon.

[therayeffect]

Honestly it's a lot of factors but I kind of agree with a lot of people saying it's just showing its age. It's really old and they haven't done anything neat or new in forever. On top of that they really shit on alts this expansion and are just now coming back off of it a bit in the last patch and soon to be in 5.3. A simple thing that I just don't get which was really friendly to everyone was the ability to do the 7 heroic dailies whenever you wanted during the week. I really miss that shit. No Heirlooms either, all these dailies that no one really likes. It's pretty awful. They've also not done so many little things that people seem to really care about like the graphics and character models. Add in the F2P wave of MMOs with cash shops that seem to be doing a lot better of a job than they used to and how Blizz has really dumbed down the game, it really adds up to the slow decent of WoW.

I, and probably many MANY others, really want a new MMO to play that's actually better than WoW. We'll never get it though.

[Syran]

I believe introducing more battle pets and daily quests (esp cooking and fishing ones) will bring those subscribers back.

I think so too. This expansion apparently has the most content of them all, but still not enough it seems, as people are leaving in droves. Time to model more pets and introduce more daily hubs, that should keep people busy.

[Ragashii]

Could someone please explain beer league to me?

Beer league is basically 10 mans from wrath. Before they tried to make the two equal in difficulty. Beer league is for all the people that LFR and normals leave between them. LFR is too easy, normals are too hard. Just enough challenge but you can take anyone. Great to trial people in a low pressure environment before you take them into more difficult raiding.

And this:

It's a raid that requires some effort to complete, but which the average player can still get through while having a drink on a friday night.

i.e. not fucking garalon.

[Cirque]

Despite spitting out quality content the subs are still falling, kinda sad, but expected as with anything that's past its prime regarding numbers.

Well not really, since nothing takes a long time to do anymore, there's no reason to keep your sub going between patches. What happens is unsubs and resubs once new patches are released, stay subbed for 1 month, and so on. I can't really blame them tbh, if you're not into proper raiding or serious pvp, there really isn't much to keep you coming back.

[Deleted]

A 1.3 million loss isn't that bad when your sub average lies around 10 million. If a game developper has to run around swearing and crying like some of the posters do when they lose 10% of their market, there wouldn't be any time for developping. I mean this exact same thing happened in cataclysm and the game rebounded at the start of MoP.

I'm pretty sure they'll another 800k when the final raid is up, and lose another million in between end and new expansion.

+ Another reason they shouldn't worry, wow is majorly driven by teenagers which all probably use their allowance or extra earnings to pay, so when they can't afford it, they drop out for a while and return as soon as they can, it could be the reason why every quarter it fluctuates up and down in big spikes. You also had SC HoTS coming out in this quarter, probably hurting their Asian market quite a bit.

[Deleted]

8.3 million is still an impressive number.

yes, its almost the same size as mu country, sweden...lol :P

[Glorious Leader]

It's a raid that requires some effort to complete, but which the average player can still get through while having a drink on a friday night.

i.e. not fucking garalon.

Or not fucking almost all of the first half of ToT. Beer league and IMO NORMAL RAIDING should be equivelant to 10 man icc. You should be able to clear 11/12 with almost anybody. And then eventually 12/12 when they add 5% or 10% icc buff whatever.

[Cirque]

A 1.3 million loss isn't that bad when your sub average lies around 10 million. If a game developper has to run around swearing and crying like some of the posters do when they lose 10% of their market, there wouldn't be any time for developping. I mean this exact same thing happened in cataclysm and the game rebounded at the start of MoP.

I'm pretty sure they'll another 800k when the final raid is up, and lose another million in between end and new expansion.

+ Another reason they shouldn't worry, wow is majorly driven by teenagers which all probably use their allowance or extra earnings to pay, so when they can't afford it, they drop out for a while and return as soon as they can, it could be the reason why every quarter it fluctuates up and down in big spikes. You also had SC HoTS coming out in this quarter, probably hurting their Asian market quite a bit.

I don't think they worry, but it's still 10% of their players who went bye-bye. Their shareholders want results, obviously, and the remaining players want explanations. If WoW seems to be "dying" (which for the record I don't think it is), more people may leave, or more players may become dissatisfied.

I think you pointed out one of the many explanations why the subs drop. I argued earlier that it's also because unless you're into serious raiding/pvp, there isn't really much to come back for between patches, resulting in more unsubs, and a resub when a patch goes live. The alt-unfriendliness, I am convinced, has contributed to this. From my personal experience, which was only in TBC when I was a "casual" myself, what made me come back was, well, knowing I hadn't done everything. I loved watching the SWP people and shit, thinking well maybe some day, one day, I will be there, but for now I'm not good enough/not enough time. It gave me something to strive towards in the game, like some goal. I don't know how "casuals" feel today, but if you think you've seen and done it all, I for one wouldn't feel like keeping my sub going (in fact, if not for raiding, I wouldn't be subbed for ages). Furthermore, there's little reward in doing anything else, really - doing dailies after exalted, or doing dungeons - there are few alternative gearing paths outside of LFR for the "casual" player. Valor is capped through running all LFRs. This is another thing TBC, though much criticized, had for me as a 'casual' - the very expensive epic items near the end of the expansions that you could buy with many badges/whatever else it took to buy. I only ever got around getting the legs but god I was so proud of them! Aside that, Kara and ZA remained popular until the end and were very viable options for players like myself. It was exciting and fun to do them, even if they took a lot longer than today's LFR, another thing that may be missing in today's WoW - there's little actual excitement for a lot of players. Anyway, as a result of all of this people unsub when they've played the new content for a month and resub with the next patch.

(Note that other than that TBC was a shit expansion and I'm by no means saying WE NEED TBC SERVERS or something like that. It's just the only experience I had as "casual").

To me, these are the things that are "lacking", or better said, things that would give every player something to work towards to, and not just the raiders who work towards more bosses killed or pvpers who work towards higher ranks. Simply put, there's little reason to stay subscribed between patches.

[Glorious Leader]

You know I'm not gonna lie but the most fun I had in wow recently was just going back to collect old sets for xmog. I kinda wanna say they shuld develop that into something by but the some token it's something that's sorta developed organically and should probably be left alone.