1. #2121
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyder View Post
    I have recently cancelled my sub and all my in real friends have as well. For me personally, the reason why I am not playing this game is because I have absolutely no interest in the current story and refuse to pay for a realm change from my dead server.
    There's no point guild raiding either because it's not rewarding enough.

    Blizzard are going to do one of two things now:

    1. Make the next expansion even more casual.
    2. Turn things around and give players what they want.

    IMO, I'd like to see many more 5 mans that have multiple difficulties. Challenge modes were a step in the right direction but I'd rather see really hard 5 mans than time trials. Unfortunately I don't think that Blizz could make harder dungeons reward much better gear because the casuals would cry like babies.

  2. #2122
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyder View Post
    I have recently cancelled my sub and all my in real friends have as well. For me personally, the reason why I am not playing this game is because I have absolutely no interest in the current story and refuse to pay for a realm change from my dead server.
    This right here, why pay 20$ for transfer just to be able to play?
    Other games give if for free and it doesn't cost anything for blizz either.


    That aside dailys are horrible implemented for casuals. Even if you enjoy the quests, they reset regardless of your progress so you can never do a whole line without forcing yourself to do all of them during one day. "Do the old ones to do the new unlocked one" is another stupid concept. Reset should have been an option and not forced.

  3. #2123
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    There's no point guild raiding either because it's not rewarding enough.

    Blizzard are going to do one of two things now:

    1. Make the next expansion even more casual.
    2. Turn things around and give players what they want.
    They pretty much confirm the will make the next expansion more casual, they said they were losing the casual players. Remains to be seen how will they make the game even more casual. I think they will lower the quality even more for the sake of quantity. More frequent raids and dungeons with increased drop rates. No needs for the casuals to farm a raid 20 times for all their loot, farm more dungeons less times. That's where I think they are going.

  4. #2124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    They pretty much confirm the will make the next expansion more casual, they said they were losing the casual players. Remains to be seen how will they make the game even more casual. I think they will lower the quality even more for the sake of quantity. More frequent raids and dungeons with increased drop rates. No needs for the casuals to farm a raid 20 times for all their loot, farm more dungeons less times. That's where I think they are going.
    If my worst fears came true Blizz would stop making heroic raids. That's just for a start.

    They might remove levelling too. Most of it anyway. Characters will just start at 85 or something.

    They will stop making content for anything that requires a tank and a healer. Because casual players don't have time to spend more than 30 minutes in game every week.

    Etc.

    I can't understand why anyone would think that this will be good for the game. The game will be far better off without bad players.
    Last edited by mmoc614a3ed308; 2013-05-11 at 02:05 PM.

  5. #2125
    Wow isn't dying, but is has reached senior citizen age and should start to think about retiring.

  6. #2126
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    From what I hear, they're also former WoW devs?
    Honestly, I think I hear "they're former WoW devs" on almost every new MMO these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Just about every MMO released post WoW has sported better, or at least, technically higher end graphics.
    Wouldn't this be common sense? Games made after WoW have better graphics? WoW sported better, technically higher end graphics than EverQuest.

    WoW's graphics are fine, they're stylized. But I'd find it hard to find anyone to disagree the character model update should have been done a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archimedic View Post
    Wow isn't dying, but is has reached senior citizen age and should start to think about retiring.
    I don't get this attitude? What, if WoW can't maintain 10 million subscribers, they should consider just shutting down and calling it quits? How does that make any sense? Especially when all the WoW haters claim that 1-2 million subs is a very strong MMO from WoW's competition?

    Honestly, I think the quality of the game would improve if they settled around 5-6 million players and had a more focused development design.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-05-11 at 02:16 PM.

  7. #2127
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    They pretty much confirm the will make the next expansion more casual, they said they were losing the casual players. Remains to be seen how will they make the game even more casual. I think they will lower the quality even more for the sake of quantity. More frequent raids and dungeons with increased drop rates. No needs for the casuals to farm a raid 20 times for all their loot, farm more dungeons less times. That's where I think they are going.
    More items is not the answer in my opinion.
    If people get stuffed full with items they lose any kind of value, and why farm for something that you do not find valuable or desirable enough to warrant the time spent farming.

    The problem with farming is if the farming is incredibly boring, if you can farm while having fun then sure you are still farming but having fun while doing so.

    The problem ends up being that some content is more effecient to do, but on a personal level is incredibly unrewarding and boring.
    Look at LFR, you go in once to see the raid and after that you have seen it and it is over to farm mode.
    Look at normal/heroic mode, you go in several times to get through till the end of the instance. And when you complete it you still go in to farm equip but you do it with guildies, and you end up having great stories to tell about horrible wipes you had or 1% trys and those rare perfect kills. Or how the guild set its mind upon getting everybody in the raidteam the achivement drake from the raidinstance.
    Last edited by mmoc30cfcfeceb; 2013-05-11 at 02:19 PM.

  8. #2128
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    More items is not the answer in my opinion.

    The problem with farming is if the farming is incredibly boring, if you can farm while having fun then sure you are still farming but having fun while doing so.

    The problem ends up being that some content is more effecient to do, but on a personal level is incredibly unrewarding and boring.
    Look at LFR, you go in once to see the raid and after that you have seen it and it is over to farm mode.
    Look at normal/heroic mode, you go in several times to get through till the end of the instance. And when you complete it you still go in to farm equip but you do it with guildies, and you end up having great stories to tell about horrible wipes you had or 1% trys and those rare perfect kills. Or how the guild set its mind upon getting everybody in the raidteam the achivement drake from the raidinstance.
    Well stated. Making the game more casual actually didn't help the casual play style in this case. Because there's no actual reward for being handed epics. There's no sense of achievement. Yet that's what they keep getting complaints about, that players need faster, immediate gratification and reward for minimal effort.

    I think its a symptom of the "everyone's a winner" mentality society adopted over the last decade or so.

  9. #2129
    That population number actually is what i thought it was in cata - or at least felt like, feels even worse in pandaria. I don't like CRZ either, imo terrible idea for the 4 currently subbed wow players that cared they didn't see other level 12s running around killing wolves while they were also leveling.

    All CRZ accomplished was to piss off wow players that have been around forever - with shared nodes and weird phasing issues.

    I contemplate this as I sit in storm peaks looking around at no less that 14 people all from different realms all seeming waiting for 1 TLPD to pop. So, before CRZ there would be 14 TLPD popping - one in each respective realm, now there is 1 popping that those 14 realms have to share and fight for.... THANK YOU BLIZZ! Is it just me or is that carrot moving further and further away?

  10. #2130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Well stated. Making the game more casual actually didn't help the casual play style in this case. Because there's no actual reward for being handed epics. There's no sense of achievement. Yet that's what they keep getting complaints about, that players need faster, immediate gratification and reward for minimal effort.

    I think its a symptom of the "everyone's a winner" mentality society adopted over the last decade or so.
    Aside from the incredible arrogance and patronage behind this statement, it is also INCREDIBLY FALSE. They did NOTHING to make the game casual friendly in fact they just made it worse. Your sense of achievement means so little to casual players it's not even funny. Casual players have their own sense of achivements and in most don't even really care to get achievement out of a video game. They just want to kill some time and be rewarded but NOT BE SUCKED IN TO SUCH MASSIVE FUCKING TIME SINK that they never feel like they get anywhere.

    It's obvious why casuals weren't engaged this expansion. Nothing was there to engage and the developers weren't serious about engaging them by giving them a REAL STAKE IN END GAME CONTENT. Not shoving them into lfr or pet battles or scenarios or unrewarding dungeons that grant them NOTHING.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #2131
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Eh? So you are saying customisable housing isnt nice? How is that a lie surely thats your opinion? As that was mine that the player houing was fucking great. I had some of the most fun customising my house as well as doing role playing with my guilds in such areas. Some of the UO stuff was bad though, having died and your body looted? Some harsh penalties.
    If you like housing then you will love Wildstar...its basically every mmo combined but focused around housing/warplots. I'm honestly surprised WOW hasnt done something with housing.

  12. #2132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    More items is not the answer in my opinion.
    If people get stuffed full with items they lose any kind of value, and why farm for something that you do not find valuable or desirable enough to warrant the time spent farming.

    The problem with farming is if the farming is incredibly boring, if you can farm while having fun then sure you are still farming but having fun while doing so.

    The problem ends up being that some content is more effecient to do, but on a personal level is incredibly unrewarding and boring.
    Look at LFR, you go in once to see the raid and after that you have seen it and it is over to farm mode.
    Look at normal/heroic mode, you go in several times to get through till the end of the instance. And when you complete it you still go in to farm equip but you do it with guildies, and you end up having great stories to tell about horrible wipes you had or 1% trys and those rare perfect kills. Or how the guild set its mind upon getting everybody in the raidteam the achivement drake from the raidinstance.
    While I agree that we should have more players doing actual raiding and that farming is incredble boring I disagree that player sshouldn't get stuffed with items. Character progression (i.e GETTING FAT EPICS) is what drives this game. PERIOD. When you slow that down you test players patience and their patience is incredible thin skinned and guess what they can and will leave. They slowed it down in mists and guess what. PLAYERS LEFT.

    This is expressed best by the subliminal messaging hidden behind the constant panda refrain GO SLOW. Well they slowed down so much they STOPPED PLAYING ALTOGETHER.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-05-11 at 02:44 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #2133
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Aside from the incredible arrogance and patronage behind this statement, it is also INCREDIBLY FALSE. They did NOTHING to make the game casual friendly in fact they just made it worse. Your sense of achievement means so little to casual players it's not even funny. Casual players have their own sense of achivements and in most don't even really care to get achievement out of a video game. They just want to kill some time and be rewarded but NOT BE SUCKED IN TO SUCH MASSIVE FUCKING TIME SINK that they never feel like they get anywhere.
    Soooooo.....LFR was better design than doing a PUG? Because that's kind of what I'm talking about, man. A casual player doing a PUG I'd wager was actually more stoked getting a piece that actually dropped than watching Netflix while kind of poking at the keyboard in LFR. You can even guarantee loot drops from 1 boss every time you go to LFR and I'd argue there's less sense of accomplishment and less excitement in getting that than there was in older days doing normal raids, regular group or PUG.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 02:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    While I agree that we should have more players doing actual raiding and that farming is incredble boring I disagree that player sshouldn't get stuffed with items. Character progression (i.e GETTING FAT EPICS) is what drives this game. PERIOD. When you slow that down you test players patience and their patience is incredible thin skinned and guess what they can and will leave. They slowed it down in mists and guess what. PLAYERS LEFT.

    This is expressed best by the subliminal messaging hidden behind the constant panda refrain GO SLOW. Well they slowed down so much they STOPPED PLAYING ALTOGETHER.
    Why did players leave in Cataclsym? You could sleepwalk to all alts in full raid gear through heroics after they nerfed them. And when LFR was put in, you could definitely quick gear every character you felt like. Dragon Soul didn't see a massive resurgence of players, but epics were thrown at them (with the exception of Madness, which required some bit of attention in LFR).

  14. #2134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Soooooo.....LFR was better design than doing a PUG? Because that's kind of what I'm talking about, man. A casual player doing a PUG I'd wager was actually more stoked getting a piece that actually dropped than watching Netflix while kind of poking at the keyboard in LFR. You can even guarantee loot drops from 1 boss every time you go to LFR and I'd argue there's less sense of accomplishment and less excitement in getting that than there was in older days doing normal raids, regular group or PUG.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 02:52 PM ----------



    Why did players leave in Cataclsym? You could sleepwalk to all alts in full raid gear through heroics after they nerfed them. And when LFR was put in, you could definitely quick gear every character you felt like. Dragon Soul didn't see a massive resurgence of players, but epics were thrown at them (with the exception of Madness, which required some bit of attention in LFR).
    Because in cataclysm difficulty amounted to a time sink. If you continually die on a boss and can't get any progression then you are just wasting your time and not getting any reward out of it. This is of course exacerbated by the fact tahat que times take forever and people simple leave if it's not working (which hey they did in tbc to). Almost exactly like doing a daily. In any case you are spending time (lots and lots of time)for ZERO reward.

    Lfr was a better design to give players access to content who didn't have it before. Now it's current role is to big because it's almost being used to systematize pugs that happened in wotlk which is a bad thing as theirs no social aspect to it yes I agree. See here's the problem. SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT MEANS FUCKING NOTHING to the majority of casual players. It was a tiny minority of you who ever felt that way about the game and anyone who woke up and had any sense realized this was a video game and didn't need to get their vanity and self esteem and self respect out of it.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-05-11 at 02:56 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #2135
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem4aDr3am View Post
    If you like housing then you will love Wildstar...its basically every mmo combined but focused around housing/warplots. I'm honestly surprised WOW hasnt done something with housing.
    Might have to take a look, also I think they had some sort of trial on the developer side years and years ago. Nothing much came of it.

  16. #2136
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Lfr was a better design to give players access to content who didn't have it before. Now it's current role is to big because it's almost being used to systematize pugs that happened in wotlk which is a bad thing as theirs no social aspect to it yes I agree. See here's the problem. SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT MEANS FUCKING NOTHING to the majority of casual players. It was a tiny minority of you who ever felt that way about the game and anyone who woke up and had any sense realized this was a video game and didn't need to get their vanity and self esteem and self respect out of it.
    I think one important things between PUGs in Wrath and LFR now is that in Wrath people had alternative to gear their characters through dungeons those that actually joined PUGs wanted to be there. Now there is no alternative if you want to gear your character if you aren't part of an organised raiding group you do LFR there is nothing else this leads to people who don't really enjoy the content having to do it which is why you see people dying to stupid things so they can go AFK or on /follow. Give people an alternative and the LFR experience will improve for all.

  17. #2137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I think one important things between PUGs in Wrath and LFR now is that in Wrath people had alternative to gear their characters through dungeons those that actually joined PUGs wanted to be there. Now there is no alternative if you want to gear your character if you aren't part of an organised raiding group you do LFR there is nothing else this leads to people who don't really enjoy the content having to do it which is why you see people dying to stupid things so they can go AFK or on /follow. Give people an alternative and the LFR experience will improve for all.
    This just HAD TO HAD TO HAD TO be changed to sate the vanity of some players who felt so bad about getting valor gear off a vendor. Boo hoo. Casual bob has epics. Wahhhhhh. That poor tiny minority of epic raiders has the worlds smallest violin playing for them somewhere. This is exactly EXACTLY one of the things they sacrificed to SATE hardcores.

    In wrath CASUAL PLAYERS were given a REAL STAKE IN END GAME CONTENT. bring on the easy valor gear. bring on the icc 10 mans. bring on the fucking beer league. Hardcores can be damned. You can refer to my sig with what to do to them.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #2138
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    I think they can do both, with LFD tool.
    Like u can do 10 LFD instances and then they should add like 4 dungeons you cannot LFD but u got to pug yourself and those drop high ilvler gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  19. #2139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Aside from the incredible arrogance and patronage behind this statement, it is also INCREDIBLY FALSE. They did NOTHING to make the game casual friendly in fact they just made it worse. Your sense of achievement means so little to casual players it's not even funny. Casual players have their own sense of achivements and in most don't even really care to get achievement out of a video game. They just want to kill some time and be rewarded but NOT BE SUCKED IN TO SUCH MASSIVE FUCKING TIME SINK that they never feel like they get anywhere.

    It's obvious why casuals weren't engaged this expansion. Nothing was there to engage and the developers weren't serious about engaging them by giving them a REAL STAKE IN END GAME CONTENT. Not shoving them into lfr or pet battles or scenarios or unrewarding dungeons that grant them NOTHING.
    MOP was a casual expansion. Cuddly pandas and pokemon and free epics in LFR. I'm sorry if you didn't like dailies but they weren't hard. You have tons of scenarios that don't require tanks or healers because people are too lazy to make them and/or they aren't rewarding.

    What I personally hate is that you work for something that doesn't last. Everything becomes redundant next patch etc.

    Everything has become meaningless because there is no community to share it with. No one in LFR cares if you worked hard or learned how to play your class. They don't know you and don't care and just want their welfare epics for no effort. Hardly anyone guild raids simply because it's easier to use LFR.

    That's not casual enough?

    Blizz need to make guild raiding more rewarding again. Make more 5 mans especially to encourage people to play together in consistent groups, and add a higher difficulty setting that isn't a race to the end that's also really rewarding.

    You have your LFR now. Don't destroy the game even more.

  20. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    MOP was a casual expansion. Cuddly pandas and pokemon and free epics in LFR. I'm sorry if you didn't like dailies but they weren't hard. You have tons of scenarios that don't require tanks or healers because people are too lazy to make them and/or they aren't rewarding.

    What I personally hate is that you work for something that doesn't last. Everything becomes redundant next patch etc.

    Everything has become meaningless because there is no community to share it with. No one in LFR cares if you worked hard or learned how to play your class. They don't know you and don't care and just want their welfare epics for no effort. Hardly anyone guild raids simply because it's easier to use LFR.

    That's not casual enough?

    Blizz need to make guild raiding more rewarding again. Make more 5 mans especially to encourage people to play together in consistent groups, and add a higher difficulty setting that isn't a race to the end that's also really rewarding.

    You have your LFR now. Don't destroy the game even more.
    No it wasn't. Pokemon gives you nothing. Dailies give you nothing (unless you commit all the time and treat wow like a job). Scenarios give you nothing. Casual isn't just a matter of difficulty. Casual is a matter of time to reward investment. The game doesn't pay out for players who don't have all that time or frankly can't stomach the fucking girnd. They leave. In masses.

    I agree about guild raiding and I agree about 5 mans. However (and watch this cause this will really blow your mind) you could run 5 mans in consistent groups at higher difficulties AND STILL BE CASUAL. Casual has less to do with being bad and more to do with your tolerance for grind and your "skill" as a player.

    What they gave casuals was fucking MEANINGLESS IN THIS EXPANSION. In fact that's why people are up in arms about lfr not paying out and all this rng horseshit. It's the only casual content (and it's not all that casual if you spend an hour just waiting in que) they can run in a reasonable semblance of time that will pay out in epics BUT ROUTINELY DOESN'T. It's why loot protection is on it's way.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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