Can you understand China? (and WoW)

[Magemaer]

I think in WOTLK they got tons of casuals to be fair.

The game was in a fast sub increase curve over wotlk launch and it stood quiet after that. It was a defeat as they expected more growth that didn't come to be. I'd say it's because t7 and t9 were awful, and instead of actually making casual content they just made raids easy, and that didn't really work.

And yet in current WoW, everything present should please every type of crowd, but it isn't good enough apparently.

Well it is, raiders are pleased with raiding, and casuals are pleased with the amount and quality of casual content out there (tho it could be more). They never did so much casual content, and there's a lot to do now.
Thing is, that's not everything. Thematic plays a huge role in "selling" the game, in keeping people engaged. Tbc and wotlk had incredible thematics, landscapes and villains. Damm, so did cata, which is one of the reasons it did better than it deserved. Now MoP thematic is very very weak, everyone knew that when it was announced, blizzard did oversight the importance of a strong and epic thematic.
Also there's the whole asia thing going on, which we don't actually grasp.

[Gimlix]

I'm hopeful. Guess that's where we differ.

I am a massive WoW fan and these news are heartbreaking for me, but if they don't do something amazing like a expansion that is like TBC, or WOTLK alike (Badass end boss and lore) Then i fear WoW won't be #1 MMORPG in a while.

[Kaneiac]

Cata lost how many subscribers? 4 million?

2 million, I'm quite sure. And NEVER as much as they lost now.

[Pann]

The problem was not that MOP represented Chinese culture more that it represented a Western view of Chinese culture.

[Gimlix]

2 million, I'm quite sure. And NEVER as much as they lost now.

3Million.
12M to 9.1m.

And total lose of MoP is atm 1.7M

[Magemaer]

The problem was not that MOP represented Chinese culture more that it represented a Western view of Chinese culture.

Or is it because they made a western attempt of not showing western view, but legit chinese culture? They tried to be really serious about representing chinese cultutre, and it came out lame.
Maybe they should have gone full Enter the Dragon and made a western-asian martial macaroni.

[Kaneiac]

3Million.
12M to 9.1m.

And total lose of MoP is atm 1.7M

Yeah, I missed the dip to 9.1. Only a 1.1m drop though - this was 1.3m.

Still quite different, though - that was a month before a new expansion and after the last raid had been out for 9 months.

This includes people who might have resubbed for 5.2 since it cut off at the end of March and as we're right in the middle of a new raid cycle.

Anyone denying that there's something wrong with the game (in either side of the globe) needs to have their head examined.

[Gimlix]

All we can hope for is that they haven't lied.
Which i mean that the next expansion will be real badass to lure all the people back in :P

[apepi]

All we can hope for is that they haven't lied.
Which i mean that the next expansion will be real badass to lure all the people back in :P

Every expansion is suppose to be badass.....or so they say. The next expac will fix all your problems!


I think the chinese really did not want a game based on them, that is not what they were looking for, maybe they could have felt...insulted? And I do not think blizzard can really understand the asian chinese market...not as well as they can themselves.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

China pretty much freefell because some new F2P MMO called Age of Wushu came out.

[Sansnom]

I admit i don't understand chineses and China at all and i look for some enlightenment in this regard (maybe from players from China). As a dumb westerner, what i see is this:
-Blizzard values asian market a lot, for $ reasons ofc
-They move heaven and earth to adjust WoW to China's government demands
-They build an expansion aimed at the asian market, wholly chinese inspired.

-The expansion is out and WoW loses millions of subs in China.

It is difficult to say if MoP was made primary to expand their present in China.

China is a different market, different people, different culture. What works in the US does not mean it would work in China.

[gx240]

The asian market is smart. And they won't keep paying for a game when there are games that are better out there that are free.

Please, by all means, name some of these excellent "free" games.

[Magemaer]

I think WoW is a pretty boring game too unless you're playing with friends.

And that's probably why Age of Wushu is so popular, it's much more focussed on the social interactions than anything. You create real 'meaningful' relationships with other players, make enemies ... have to help your friend break out of jail, prevent them from being kidnapped or murdered by enemy factions. From what I've read the chinese players say it seems to be mostly a popular game because it really makes their circle of friends feel involved with the world, the faction wars, but most important with eachother.

LFR and LFD and crossrealm completely took this engagement and involvement with the other players in the game away. The only "involvement" and engagement in WoW right now is being in a 10 man raidguild ..

Personally i don't play wow because of friends. But your analysis is pretty spot on. WoW was never amazing in social interactions, and it became worse with ques and x-realm. Players are prompted to play alone or with randoms most of their time in wow, and not to actually forge alliances and partnerships. And killing 25s was lame. Lots of bad moves.
They didn't handle well social interaction. They didn't handle well making the game welcoming to new players. The game is in so many senses not good for new players. Plus weak thematic on mop.

[StaeleAilar]

All we can hope for is that they haven't lied.
Which i mean that the next expansion will be real badass to lure all the people back in :P

Well, i wouldn't get my hopes up about them not lying. Metzen said the alliance would have a fist pumping moment, and apparently that "moment" was Jaina having a tantrum and expelling the sunreavers... uh.. yay?
Didn't make my fist pump...

[Deleted]

Please, by all means, name some of these excellent "free" games.

Well, since you just said good ''free'' games.

League of Legends seems very popular.
Path of Exile is a really good game, and it's free.
Isn't Neverwinter free too?

There are many other free games out there, I haven't played that many though.

[Yalingo]

6 500 001 subs lost in china
6 499 999 subs lost in EU/NA

"Most of the decline in subscribers came from China"

Please, by all means, name some of these excellent "free" games.

http://www.freemmorpglist.com/

33 pages of free mmos there. Some shit, some great. Try some of them, lots of other people have.

[Magemaer]

Well, since you just said good ''free'' games.

League of Legends seems very popular.
Path of Exile is a really good game, and it's free.
Isn't Neverwinter free too?

There are many other free games out there, I haven't played that many though.

PoE is meh. Tho better than d3 by all means.
Neverwinter is bad and vastly inferior to WoW.

Now LoL is pretty decent, but it's a different genre. It's a moba and wow is a mmo. But it took a lot of attention out of Wow, i'll agree with that.

[Magemaer]

Opinions, not facts. Are that your arguments really?

You call what i said argument? I didn't, you did. You dismiss an argument that was never an argument, rather a personal appreciation, aka opinion.
And why the need to be so aggressive?

WoW is a MMO. That is a fact.
It is by far the best MMO out there. That is an opinion (mine, surprise).
Neverwinter is a bad game, i wish it was good, i love Forgotten Realms. It isn't however. (do i need to clarify this is an opinion?)

[ablib]

People forget that the majority of WoW players aren't in North America. Last numbers I saw were that North America only made up of approximately 3 to 3.5 million subs (way lower now).

The only thing Blizzard has stated is that the majority of the losses from the past few quarters have been in the East -- this could mean just 51% of 1.3 million or 675,000 subs in the east lost. This isn't as substantial of a loss than in the East, as loosing 650k subs in the west would be.

They're trying to downplay the losses (rightfully so, it's an investor meeting), by saying the majority of the losses are where the majority of the players are, which means a smaller percentage of players lost, than in the West where it's a much larger percentage of the playerbase lost.

If that makes sense.

[MAXCAVALERA]

i think wow is a pretty boring game too unless you're playing with friends.

And that's probably why age of wushu is so popular, it's much more focussed on the social interactions than anything. You create real 'meaningful' relationships with other players, make enemies ... Have to help your friend break out of jail, prevent them from being kidnapped or murdered by enemy factions. From what i've read the chinese players say it seems to be mostly a popular game because it really makes their circle of friends feel involved with the world, the faction wars, but most important with eachother.

Lfr and lfd and crossrealm completely took this engagement and involvement with the other players in the game away. The only "involvement" and engagement in wow right now is being in a 10 man raidguild ..

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