Vegetarians and milk - a question to vegetarian people

[44104]

Did I say against? Well, talk about parapraxis XD I meant in favor of. Massive typo.

I suggest you read Practical Ethics by Peter Singer if you want the argument in its totality.

I am well aware of Peter Singer, read Animal Liberation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xxdMUuZXUY

Great video with Singer and Dawkins on eating animals.

I have to say I am rather put-off by the vitriol of so many here against vegans/vegetarians. Not sure I understand why what someone else is eating or not would cause so much anger in people, I find that very strange.

[Deleted]

Save the food chain, eat a vegan.

[Elegiac]

Did you know they color ground meat so that it looks red?

Fun Fact: Do you know that food grade dyes are actually in a huge range of products ?

I honestly do not give a shit. I treat organic meat as what it is; a luxury product.

Nothing, I mean NOTHING, is better than an actual free-range animal that has had a REAL outdoor life and a good life. All this farmed, generic meat doesn't compare.

Do you know how it does compare?

It allows for the feeding of a lot more people more cheaply. Rail all you want against chemical fertilizers, pesticides, GMO crops, etc; doesn't change the fact that it was vastly more better than the famine and feast system that preceded them.

The meat industry is just that, an industry. It doesn't treat it's animals well and the end product is inferior as a result. But what would regular people know? They barely ever see a damned cow in their entire life, let alone care about the things they stuff in their mouthes.

"Well" is extraordinarily relative. As said, most livestock are kept in climate controlled, clean environments with constant access to food and clean water because the health and stress levels of most animals has a bearing on the quality of the final product.

That is not to say there are not problems in the meat industry. But a lot of it is overstated as a marketing ploy for organic growers.

[belfpala]

I honestly do not give a shit. I treat organic meat as what it is; a luxury product.

...But a lot of it is overstated as a marketing ploy for organic growers.

Speaking from my profession, I can very much tell the difference between, for example, grass fed, corn fed, and grass fed/corn finished beef. And it's important to me, for taste.

I'm pretty sure there's also a nutritional difference, in terms of the fats produced by different feeding methods.

"Organic" is very often a marketing ploy, I agree. But I'll take a blind taste test on various meats and tell you which were raised factory-style and which were not.

[Deleted]

It probably has gelatin in it

This is why. It's not because of the milk.

Alot of these stuff, smoothies, some ice creams etc, include gelatin, which is a product from animal fat. (at least i think it was the fat)

[belfpala]

This is why. It's not because of the milk.

Alot of these stuff, smoothies, some ice creams etc, include gelatin, which is a product of animal fat. (at least i think it was the fat)

Gelatin comes from connective tissue and bones, mainly. It's the reason low and slow cooked meat, for example, seems tender and juicy even though it's actually cooked way beyond well-done.

There are plenty of other thickeners and emulsifiers that would work (xantham gum, guar gum, various corn products).

[Elegiac]

Speaking from my profession, I can very much tell the difference between, for example, grass fed, corn fed, and grass fed/corn finished beef. And it's important to me, for taste.

I'm pretty sure there's also a nutritional difference, in terms of the fats produced by different feeding methods.

"Organic" is very often a marketing ploy, I agree. But I'll take a blind taste test on various meats and tell you which were raised factory-style and which were not.

Which is, as said, a luxury product. I personally like having practically everyone having access to cheap meat (nutritionally it's really no different except for the hormones/antibiotics).

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 10:07 PM ----------

Gelatin comes from connective tissue and bones, mainly.

There are plenty of other thickeners and emulsifiers that would work (xantham gum, guar gum, various corn products).

I'd rather they used the whole animal.

[belfpala]

Which is, as said, a luxury product. I personally like having practically everyone having access to cheap meat (nutritionally it's really no different except for the hormones/antibiotics).

This is one thing I was kind of asking about, and it's out of my realm of expertise. I know I've read that cows produce different types of fats when fed corn versus grass, and that the corn-induced fat is far less healthy for humans. Like I said, asking. I'm bringing this out of a shadow of a memory.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 12:09 AM ----------

I'd rather they used the whole animal.

Same. I try to, when I can.

You up for some pig brains? They're really nice when poached in milk, breaded, and fried.

[Elegiac]

This is one thing I was kind of asking about, and it's out of my realm of expertise. I know I've read that cows produce different types of fats when fed corn versus grass, and that the corn-induced fat is far less healthy for humans. Like I said, asking. I'm bringing this out of a shadow of a memory.

I honestly haven't seen anything to this effect. Then again, a lot of studies are still saying saturated fat is bad for you (it isn't).

[belfpala]

I honestly haven't seen anything to this effect. Then again, a lot of studies are still saying saturated fat is bad for you (it isn't).

Did you see my addition to my last post?

There's no such thing as "saturated fat". There are many fats, all (most?) of which can be saturated. I'd like to see reports on this topic, actually. I'm sure some have been done. But we're deviating from the purpose of the thread.

[Elegiac]

Same. I try to, when I can.

You up for some pig brains? They're really nice when poached in milk, breaded, and fried.

"They" meaning the corporate farmers :P They can grind up the brains and put them in dog food or something.

I'm not so hot about much else besides the flesh and muscle.

[belfpala]

"They" meaning the corporate farmers :P They can grind up the brains and put them in dog food or something.

I'm not so hot about much else besides the flesh and muscle.

Nah, I'm talking about brain nuggets. lol.

It's a hard sell. I get whole pigs and I'd like to use all of their parts (well... they come as half pigs, but I usually get them in multiples of 2...). People are coming around and realizing the cheek meat is the second best part. Slowly.

[Chimera-Lothar]

My wife is Vegan, she does it primarily for health reasons.
She's trying to keep away strokes, heart disease, etc (which have been common in her family).

I eat whatever is put in front of me, which just happens to be Vegan stuff when she's cooking, but when she's not, I prefer chicken.
Which in my case is more because I'm all for protecting the environment. Overfishing is a real problem.

[belfpala]

Overfishing is a real problem.

Squid. It's good.

[zazuch]

You can't blame a vegetarian for thinking that their fake meat tastes good. They have nothing to base the comparison off of, it's no wonder they think the saw dust they eat is tasty when 90% of what they eat are leaves and tree moss.

No point in living life if you are just gonna deny yourself all of it's simple pleasures in the naivety that you are somehow "changing the world" lol, what a waste of energy (even more so when you've got so little to expend in the first place).

My brother is actually a vegetarian so when I eat meals at his house his wife cooks with vegetarian products. If you know how to cook you for most meals cant tell a damn difference. We had a party one time where we had vegetarian meat balls(soy based meat substitute with sauce) and regular meat balls in two separate crock pots. I kid you not almost everyone were eating both and didn't realize that one was a meat sub and one pot were regular. Only after they had it pointed out(aka they forced themselves to dislike them) did they notice a diffidence.

I wont lie some of the meat replacement(ex i dont like any veggi hotdog ive tried) are still not good. But there is a turkey(its made of mushrooms not tofu) that i kid you not if you didnt know you would think its turkey. The taste and texture is 100% that of turkey. You just haven't tried any good options yet.

[Elegiac]

Squid. It's good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaculture

[belfpala]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaculture

I'm very much in favor of aquaculture, however, I'm wary of practices around the world. We're also going back into the nutrition issue here; farmed fish generally doesn't have the same fat distribution as wild caught.

If done right, I have no problem with farmed fish or seafood. Pretty much that requires "Product of USA" on the label, for me. Again, you'll say luxury. And that's fine. I mentioned squid in particular because it's highly sustainable, high in protein, low in fat, delicious when cooked properly, and... damn it, those things are like crazy extraterrestrials in our oceans and deserve to be eaten.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 01:03 AM ----------

I wont lie some of the meat replacement(ex i dont like any veggi hotdog ive tried) are still not good. But there is a turkey(its made of mushrooms not tofu) that i kid you not if you didnt know you would think its turkey. The taste and texture is 100% that of turkey. You just haven't tried any good options yet.

Do this:

Large portobello mushrooms (about the size of a burger bun). Enough for 1 "burger" per person, or more if you're hungry peeps. Scrape the gills out of the bottom with a spoon, rinse.

Marinate in:
Light drizzle of olive oil
soy sauce
sugar
minced garlic
smoked paprika
cayenne pepper
(i'd usually add Worcestershire sauce, but that's not vegan).
(No quantities... should be just enough to coat everything, mushrooms aren't made to swim).

Let sit at least 30 minutes, or up to overnight.

Fire up the grill.

Dab off excess marinade with a paper towel, cook just like you would a beef burger. About 3-5 minutes on each side. I usually flip once when the edges start wilting. Start them stem side down so their moisture drips, rather than pools.

Put it on a bun with whatever you like on your burger. Good stuff.