4th raid difficulty, Easy Mode, should it happen?

[CrusaderNerò87]

I still dont see the issue here. So what if normal is somewhat challenging right now? As said, after getting some new items its getting easier and easier.

We should all expect some decent play from everyone in this game. Ok, its fine if you dont know stuff if you are willing to learn. Its nok ok when you choose to suck and instead spend your time bitching and think of silly ideas to make the content easier for you. Fact is, you dont want to do the little it takes to actually do normal modes.

Dont bother coming with this "OMG I HAVE A LIFE I DEMAND BEING BAD" thing. You can be as casual as you want, if you have leveled 1-90 I expect you to know the basics of your class. Also, when someone gives you the tip "go check out <insert site here> for good info" just god damn do it. It takes you like 10-20 minutes to know everything you need. You dont need to read pages up and down about theorycrafting, numbers and spreadsheets. You do not need to watch videos hour upon end, no video of a boss fight last that long.


Have some patience. As you kill bosses in normal, you'll get gear. As such, content will get easier. There is still plenty of time before next raid comes out.

For those who say they just want a nice time with 9/24 friends doing raids.. Do you do this with the intention of being bad at the same time? is that how it works?

Cause my guild is a OK one and we have alot of fun together when raiding. We dont need to slack or be bad while having fun on mumble.

[Dreknar20]

- Everyone gets Valor, but the loot drops are identical to 10N (2 pieces per boss).
.

Why should this "friend" mode give the same rewards as "normal" mode?

[ScottsdaleHokie]

Three modes is way too many and you want to add a fourth?

There should be one tier, with optional hard modes like Ulduar had. This bullshit with with each raid tier patch negating the previous tier has destroyed the game.

[Ragashii]

think Blizzard should add a raiding mode: Friends Mode.

Short version: allow 15 players into a 10-man instance.

Long version:

- Keep the 10N tuning, but let 15 players zone in. '
- Everyone gets Valor, but the loot drops are identical to 10N (2 pieces per boss).
- No changes to boss tuning, the extra five players should allow beer league raiders to have fun with their not-amazing-player friends while downing bosses and getting some gear.
- All achievements will be disabled in Friends Mode.
- Friends Mode shares a lockout with 10N, the raid leader can downsize to 10N from 15F (what I'm abbreviating Friends Mode to) at any time.

This would be simpler to execute than tuning another actual difficulty while bringing back some of the raid accessibility that posters here remember fondly from WOTLK. Naturally it would be open to certain sleazy tactics - clearing in 15F while giving loot to the 10 chosen ones, for instance - which comes down to social dynamics.

Another potential upside is that going from a raid of 15 to a raid of 25 has got to be more feasible than going from 10 to 25, and Blizzard has mentioned their concerns with the status of 25-man raiding.

The obvious downside is finding another five players to join your 10-man raid team... except I would bet that many guilds have some players who aren't always on, or aren't "good enough" for Normal modes that could fill out a 15F group.

Throwing more people at a problem does not solve it. Just make normals easier, that's all you're doing by adding 5 more people. Ghostcrawler said on twitter than there are almost 0 25N guilds because they all have heroic intentions. Make 25s and heroics as hard as you want, but give the 10 mans back to the players. Even in the world first race people don't consider 10 mans on par with 25 mans. So making them easier doesn't change anything in the eyes of the community because they've always been easier even after they got harder.

[Calaba]

maybe go run T14 then?
There is a reason Blizz nerfed them all and upped the drop rates

iLevel too low without upgrade vendor available. the only reason to do these now is for achives and to get gear to do LFR!

[Dreknar20]

iLevel too low without upgrade vendor available. the only reason to do these now is for achives and to get gear to do LFR!

so then run LFR?
T15 normal mode is tuned for people who ran at least T14 normal

Gearing up to current content isnt a problem at all

[Ragashii]

so then run LFR?
T15 normal mode is tuned for people who ran at least T14 normal

It's pretty obvious the only solution you offer is run lfr. That's like telling someone who wants more money to go to the casinos because they *might* make more money.
Are you afraid you won't be as "1337" if normals are easier? That's what it sounds like.

[Dreknar20]

Make 25s and heroics as hard as you want, but give the 10 mans back to the players. .

so force all raiders into 25 man?

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 11:46 PM ----------

It's pretty obvious the only solution you offer is run lfr. .

Because thats all there is to it.
Gearing up isnt a problem at all

Thats the whole point of it, to offer content to players who just suck too much ass or dont have the time needed for organized raiding

[Calaba]

think Blizzard should add a raiding mode: Friends Mode.

Short version: allow 15 players into a 10-man instance.

Long version:

- Keep the 10N tuning, but let 15 players zone in. '
- Everyone gets Valor, but the loot drops are identical to 10N (2 pieces per boss).
- No changes to boss tuning, the extra five players should allow beer league raiders to have fun with their not-amazing-player friends while downing bosses and getting some gear.
- All achievements will be disabled in Friends Mode.
- Friends Mode shares a lockout with 10N, the raid leader can downsize to 10N from 15F (what I'm abbreviating Friends Mode to) at any time.

This would be simpler to execute than tuning another actual difficulty while bringing back some of the raid accessibility that posters here remember fondly from WOTLK. Naturally it would be open to certain sleazy tactics - clearing in 15F while giving loot to the 10 chosen ones, for instance - which comes down to social dynamics.

Another potential upside is that going from a raid of 15 to a raid of 25 has got to be more feasible than going from 10 to 25, and Blizzard has mentioned their concerns with the status of 25-man raiding.

The obvious downside is finding another five players to join your 10-man raid team... except I would bet that many guilds have some players who aren't always on, or aren't "good enough" for Normal modes that could fill out a 15F group.

Very much NO! - for all sorts of reasons, some of which you've already spotted - just the fact you could EASILY run half alts and half mains and thus priorise gear to mains makes this a very bad plan. Thats why gear from such easy modes would NEED to be marginally above LFR gear at most. (like 4 - 8 ilevels higher at most)

[Deleted]

this game does need a 4th raid difficulty,the exact same version of LFR but hold on...without any gear.
Yes.A place for casuals that really want to experience the feeling of raiding with a group of people that only want to enjoy the content and its fights.
Without the invisible monster of gear progression pushing an atmosphere of haste,intolerance of errors,intolerance of new players,greed,anger and frustration at every wipe,basically the shit that is LFR.

So yeah it would be nice to add what would LFR should have been all along.

[Ragashii]

so force all raiders into 25 man?

Why is it okay to force everyone into 10 mans and LFR? People run 25 mans and do not dabble in normals for long, they go for heroics. So why do all the people who want to run normal have to run 10 man?

[Calaba]

Because thats all there is to it.
Gearing up isnt a problem at all

NOT RUNNING LFR EVER AGAIN.

Hope I've made that clear.

[Maelstrom51]

I don't consider myself to be anything but a slightly-above-average player, and we regularly clear through iron qon, often with pugs.
It may be because I'm on stormrage, however.

If you look on wowprogress, an "average raider" is currently at 5/12.

http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter...kh-the-breaker
http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/megaera

[La]

this game does need a 4th raid difficulty,the exact same version of LFR but hold on...without any gear.
Yes.A place for casuals that really want to experience the feeling of raiding with a group of people that only want to enjoy the content and its fights.

There is no point in putting time into things that do not reward you at all. Plus LFR is also used by casual players who are good players and just don't play the game to raid or play enough to raid. It's ALSO a gateway for people into normal raids and beyond.

But yea, we can't have dem casuals be takin' dat crappy ilvl lewts compurd to dem dare normee and heroic raiders mayne. That effects people too much.

[Dreknar20]

If you look on wowprogress, an "average raider" is currently at 5/12.

so then whats the problem?
The tier isnt even half way over yet

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 11:56 PM ----------

That effects people too much.

why shouldnt it?
Whether something is awsome and worth doing is connected to how many other people can do it.

Doing something only a few can do? Awsomeness
Doing something even a nut-less monkey can do? Not so awsome

[Deleted]

There is no point in putting time into things that do not reward you at all.

But yea, we can't have dem casuals be takin' dat crappy ilvl lewts compurd to dem dare normee and heroic raiders mayne. That effects people too much.

I'm actually trying to help the casuals,but behind your glasses tainted with simplistic hate towards elitism you cannot even recognize someone who stands behind the same cause as you do.
Who the hell cares about rewards really?LFR was supposed to be the place where casuals and retired raiders can enjoy new content.
They don't have the time to learn the encounters,they don't have the time to assemble a group of people,that's where LFR comes in.
It was never about the pixels called gear,5-man heroics were the places to gear up.
Do you get it?It's about the experience.Right now there's no experience in LFR,because of what?Gear.How hard is it to get?

Gear makes people shitty.Biggest fail is that it brings in actual raiders who can use the LFR gear,raiders who have no business in a monkey version of a real raid,they the place,they ruin the atmosphere with their ''rush,rush'' attitude and next thing you know LFR is not about the experience but about downing the bosses asap and getting the fat loot.
''Tank sucks?kick him''
Fucking amazing,how can people not see how LFR was supposed to be?

[Relapses]

Just create a button that allows you to sit in queue for about 45 minutes, then when it's up, it fills your bags with randomly assigned loot. You'll never actually use any of the gear, but it serves the exact same purpose as an "easy mode" raiding difficulty.

[Osmeric]

If you look on wowprogress, an "average raider" is currently at 5/12.

http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter...kh-the-breaker
http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/megaera

Average of the raiding guilds that continue to raid. Many raiding guilds (from T14, from Cataclysm, and even more from Wrath) just stopped raiding.

[CrusaderNerò87]

I'm actually trying to help the casuals,but behind your glasses tainted with simplistic hate towards elitism you cannot even recognize someone who stands behind the same cause as you do.
Who the hell cares about rewards really?LFR was supposed to be the place where casuals and retired raiders can enjoy new content.They don't have the time to learn the encounters,they don't have the time to assemble a group of people,that's where LFR comes in.
It was never about the pixels called gear,5-man heroics were the places to gear up.
Do you get it?It's about the experience.Right now there's no experience in LFR,because of what?Gear.How hard is it to get?

It's because he and others wants the easiest way possible to aquire gear. This gear should also be at the same ilevel as those who raid normal modes and some even say heroic mode.

They are proud of being supercasual and preach that "they have a life" and therefore are allowed to be bad in this game. They believe they are entitled to get whatever those who invest more time(or maybe not more time, but people that wants to be good).

Ideally, they want to do something that requires you to enter raid, autoattack boss while talking about random stuff.

[Ragashii]

why shouldnt it?
Whether something is awsome and worth doing is connected to how many other people can do it.

Doing something only a few can do? Awsomeness
Doing something even a nut-less monkey can do? Not so awsome

Yeah that's what HEROIC mode is for. Anyone* can join the army, few can join the marines. But they are both important.
You're one of those psuedo-elitists that think everything should be unavailable to people because it's my toy! Mine! Mine! Mine! "It's hard for heroic raiders so it should be hard for everyone!"
*So long as you don't have a heart defect or something you can't control.