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  1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    What the hell are you talking about. I actually agree that LFR isn't raiding. But Blizzard counts people who do LFR as raiders, either we like it or not.
    And yes, you and me agree that LFR isn't raiding. But I bet there are loads of ppl who think LFR is raiding because then there wouldn't be millions of ppl in LFR.
    Blizzard counts it as raiding. But in the sense of providing the social linkages that keep people in the game, it isn't the same as non-LFR raiding. It's a socially empty experience that gives loot.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  2. #1282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I want to point out that to Blizzard, a player that has a high skill cap but doesn't try, and a player with a low skill cap that does try, are indistinguishable. .
    There is no skill cap
    People have no magical DNA that somehow makes them a better raider
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    This may amaze you but most people that buy a game actually want the challenge. A game with a rep of being too easy isnt purchased by most but a game that is known to be really hard and challenging is a top seller. Pop into most games and you will see that there is no one to hold your hand or lower the challenge for you.
    ?? A lot of games I have played have a difficulty setting. Right at the start you can choose easy/normal/hard/ and usually a super hard difficulty. Actually pretty much every game I have on steam has a difficulty setting :P

  4. #1284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raone View Post
    ?? A lot of games I have played have a difficulty setting. Right at the start you can choose easy/normal/hard/ and usually a super hard difficulty. Actually pretty much every game I have on steam has a difficulty setting :P
    and WoW has that, in fact many levels

    From questing to heroic raiding there is a huge range of PVE content
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  5. #1285
    speaking of handicaps. Anyone remember the BLIND raiding enhancement shaman?
    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/01/12/gu...ildmate-steer/

    These players are admirable and I respect them. The people in this thread? Respect is the last thing you deserve. You aren't even worthy of spite. You should just be ignored and hopefully dissappear from the community.

  6. #1286
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    There is no skill cap
    People have no magical DNA that somehow makes them a better raider
    You are obviously wrong.

    There are personal variations in reaction time, in size of working memory, in visual acuity, in intelligence. All of these affect ones ability to perform in a raid.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  7. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    This may amaze you but most people that buy a game actually want the challenge. A game with a rep of being too easy isnt purchased by most but a game that is known to be really hard and challenging is a top seller. Pop into most games and you will see that there is no one to hold your hand or lower the challenge for you.
    The first heroic Lich King kill was at 5% buff. I also see that you did not kill H LK for weeks after Sindragosa. Was that not a good challenge?

  8. #1288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There are personal variations in reaction time, in size of working memory, in visual acuity, in intelligence. All of these affect ones ability to perform in a raid.
    all of which can be improved upon
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    and WoW has that, in fact many levels

    From questing to heroic raiding there is a huge range of PVE content
    not in terms of raiding. For raiding there is 2 only difficulty modes, normal and heroic, LFR is not a difficulty mode for raiders it's a solo experience completely separate from raiding.

  10. #1290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You are obviously wrong.

    There are personal variations in reaction time, in size of working memory, in visual acuity, in intelligence. All of these affect ones ability to perform in a raid.
    You are right but those differences aren't huge enough to make a person unable to raid if we're talking about a person of average intelligence.

  11. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    The heck that I'm talking about is what you agree with. At first I thought you were confused, then I read the 2nd sentence you wrote and realized you got it, so that made me happy.

    What doesn't matter is what Blizzard calls it. They can call it whatever they want, but you and I, and all the people quitting know it's not raiding. So Blizzard can keep putting their heads in the same while they post LFR numbers to board members, while behind the scenes the subs keep dropping.
    Thing is, people need challenging content which they do with friends and guilds. That is what keeps people to stay. If everything in game is made for solo play people will leave after a while because you can't play single player game for years.
    And I consider challenging content beer league, normal and heroic.

  12. #1292
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    all of which can be improved upon
    And all of which have caps that are subject to personal variation. Or do you think you could be as smart as Einstein if you just tried hard enough?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raone View Post
    not in terms of raiding. .
    Raiding is the pinnacle of PVE content, just to get to it you need a certain level

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 04:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And all of which have caps that are subject to personal variation.
    Really?
    So the absolute, complete, tip of the edge capabilities of these players, the best they can ever humanly possibly achieve gets them no farther than LFR?
    Do you even realize how insulting that is?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  14. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    You are right but those differences aren't huge enough to make a person unable to raid if we're talking about a person of average intelligence.
    You don't know that.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #1295
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Blizzard counts it as raiding. But in the sense of providing the social linkages that keep people in the game, it isn't the same as non-LFR raiding. It's a socially empty experience that gives loot.
    I think we can all agree to that. WTB content which requires guild effort - not only in raiding.

  16. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Raiding is the pinnacle of PVE content, just to get to it you need a certain level
    Which is the entire point of Easy difficulty setting, to get a player to that point to where they can raid, to where they can practice at getting good. You won't magically get good by stepping into normal mode you need to learn outside of normal mode.

    You will not get to that point threw Heroic Dungeons/Scenarios/LFR, you will learn nothing from these difficulty settings except how to AoE and even then you could be AoEing completely wrong and have no idea.

    Easy mode could be this setting. A difficulty where the DPS/HPS requirements are lower but the mechanics will still kill/wipe your raid if you fail to do them.
    Last edited by Raone; 2013-05-11 at 04:52 AM.

  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Really?
    So the absolute, complete, tip of the edge capabilities of these players, the best they can ever humanly possibly achieve gets them no farther than LFR?
    Do you even realize how insulting that is?
    I remind you that we were talking about people whose ideal difficulty is above LFR and below current normal.

    Insulting? It's not insulting to recognize facts about player demographics, that the bell curve has a certain shape and width.

    The contrary position, that these people can achieve but are too morally degenerate to do so, seems much more insulting to me.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #1298
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    Thats not evidence of anything but possibilities as to why less people are raiding. That is all it is. LFR takes a ton of people away from normal raiding, people growing old of the game, not being able to afford it anymore, and a million other reasons that i dont care to list.
    DS had LFR, 62k guilds killed Morchok before MoP. 24k guilds have killed Jinrihk so far (42k killed Stone guards before 5.2)

  19. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    DS had LFR, 62k guilds killed Morchok before MoP. 24k guilds have killed Jinrihk so far (42k killed Stone guards before 5.2)
    and the tier isnt even half way over, not to mention the upcoming item lvl upgrades
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  20. #1300
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    DS had LFR, 62k guilds killed Morchok before MoP. 24k guilds have killed Jinrihk so far (42k killed Stone guards before 5.2)
    DS was out how long - 9 months? ToT is out 2 months.

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