Are Free Action MMORPGs losing popularity?

[Olrox]

NOPE!

When you swung your sword you were rooted for half a second. (the duration of the swing)

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 11:58 PM ----------



When during an animation, you are immobile.

IE: Swinging a sword causes you to stand still for half a second.

---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 12:06 AM ----------



Shooters tend to not have action locking. the idea being that you can shoot while running and the power behind the attack comes from the gun itself, whereas swinging a sword or war hammer is difficult to do unless it's a sort of charging attack. There's less power if you are just flailing your weapon around while sprinting.

And yeah, the animations are usually off when the legs and arms don't match up. Sometimes it looks like your character think's hes on fire as he flails wildly.

Ok, that is about what I kind of thought it was - thanks for the clarification.

So in your opinion, is that sort of thing feasible in an MMO game that doesn't use any kind of "hotbar" or "hotkey" style ala WoW and company?

Like, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. A game like TERA I think would feel really odd if I could move while doing my "combo" attack...I mean, I played a Berserker and almost all of my moves were charge abilities - I could move freely (at reduced speed, of course) during the charge so it didn't feel that odd to me but I remember my Slayer having moves that were just ol' button presses.

In fact, aside from the guy above who mentioned ye olde Intellivision DnD game - I seriously can't think of an action game with independent movement of upper/lower that DIDN'T have weaker/variable attacks while moving - again, Metal Gear Rising is my best example because Raiden can very freely attack while he's sprinting and he doesn't get locked in any way but the attack is not what he would do had I initiated it while standing at "ready" position.

I guess I'm just not getting it - when I played GW2, the combat did NOT feel exactly the same as Tera or NW - I had hotbars and whatnot - I mean I guess it didn't have any targeted abilities like WoW but it didn't feel drastically different from Tera to me. Maybe I just didn't notice?

[Berethos08]

So in your opinion, is that sort of thing feasible in an MMO game that doesn't use any kind of "hotbar" or "hotkey" style ala WoW and company?

It's definitely feasible, it's just that some players really, really don't like action locking in any sense of the word. There's this idea that gets bandied about that action locking is terrible and the way WoW handles it is the only way it should be done, rather than it being one of several valid options.

I personally enjoy systems that use action locking when they are done well - like Tera (or for offline, Demons Souls and Dark Souls) - as it gives combat a bit more weight in how it feels. Slamming down an axe in Tera with a Beserker is a lot more satisfying than it is in WoW in my opinion, but it is based on personal preference.

[RoninaThorstone]

It's definitely feasible, it's just that some players really, really don't like action locking in any sense of the word. There's this idea that gets bandied about that action locking is terrible and the way WoW handles it is the only way it should be done, rather than it being one of several valid options.

And this is what I take issue with.
The second generation MMOs are like... the handful of RPG kind of games that don't have action locking. Almost every other aRPG/h&s/fighter game does, and the rest of the world doesn't have an issue with it. It seems to be mainly the people who haven't played many games other than WoW.

[Valeron]

The one big issue I have with animation lock is the length of time. Vindictus has it but everything is so quick that you hardly even notice it. While in Tera it is a lot slower and so it is noticeable with just about everything you do. It's my biggest gripe against Tera's combat really.

[RoninaThorstone]

The one big issue I have with animation lock is the length of time. Vindictus has it but everything is so quick that you hardly even notice it. While in Tera it is a lot slower and so it is noticeable with just about everything you do. It's my biggest gripe against Tera's combat really.

Yeah. It's all a matter of execution.
edit:
For me, from best to worst arpg fantasy combat thing it's like
Vindictus,
Neverwinter,
Tera,
Gw2 (With combatmode 1.1)
Age of conan
And then like 3rd person shooter combat is like
Warframe
Firefall
Defiance

[Arkenaw]

I'm playing one currently, Dragon Nest by Nexon, it's got a pretty sizable community. Not huge, but decent.

[Valeron]

Actually Dragon Nest has the best combat I've played in an mmo, closely followed by Vindictus.

Haven't played it in a while. When the new character Kali gets put in I'll probably give it another go.

Edit: with your list, Bardarian, I prefer GW2's combat over Neverwinter and Tera. But everyone has different tastes.

Oh and also Age of Conan has the single best aspect in their combat over all of them, fatalities.

For your third person shooters, didn't really like Defiance but I enjoyed Firefall's combat a lot. However, I never used third person view in Firefall, it was always first person.

[RoninaThorstone]

You know, this is the third time I've heard about this "dragon nest" game...
I will have to check it out as I trust Doozerjuns judgment on these things.

[Valeron]

It's super instance heavy. Like more loading screens than Vindictus even. So just a heads up in case that bothers you, Bardarian.

[Arkenaw]

You know, this is the third time I've heard about this "dragon nest" game...
I will have to check it out as I trust Doozerjuns judgment on these things.

It's a ton of fun, I'm only a level 21 priest so far, the combat is kinda like TERA with the crosshair targeting thing, but I'm enjoying it a lot more than TERA so far.

[RoninaThorstone]

It's super instance heavy. Like more loading screens than Vindictus even. So just a heads up in case that bothers you, Bardarian.

Eh, I play vindictus, warframe, and starconflict.
The instancing doesn't bother me so long as the load times aren't extreme and excessive (like taking 4-8 load screens just to get from one zone to another... swtor...)

[Rukh]

MMOs need to have things that keep people coming back. Good combat is fun but wears off quickly and doesn't keep people coming back. You simply cannot have that be the only thing there is in an MMO.

[Deleted]

Yes, they are. F2P games will never be able to offer quality content or stick with it for a long time. There is just no motivation to work for free, and the micro-transactions aren't really helping. I have no problem paying for the good stuff. If it's good - I'll gladly pay. But so far I haven't seen anything -good- that comes in the same sentence with -free-.

[Edge-]

Yes, they are. F2P games will never be able to offer quality content or stick with it for a long time. There is just no motivation to work for free, and the micro-transactions aren't really helping. I have no problem paying for the good stuff. If it's good - I'll gladly pay. But so far I haven't seen anything -good- that comes in the same sentence with -free-.

I can list about a dozen MMO's that transitioned from subscription based to F2P/hybrid and are either still around, or still getting content updates today because of it. I can list other MMO's that launched F2P and have been pretty good in quality and seen some pretty good updates. Also, many of these games can easily be argued to be "good" in part, or in whole.

You're talking about bad games. They exist regardless of business model. The business model doesn't fundamentally alter the gameplay itself, it alters the perception of the gameplay.

You're right, people have no problem paying for good stuff. But they don't like being forced to pay for it. Give them options without requiring anything, and they will gladly pay. There's a reason F2P makes money hand over fist when done right.

[Syroa]

Personally, I'm almost sick of the action game formula that has been used so much recently but I feel that has been down to execution. Most of these games come with the tag "action" because there is hit detection, the ability to dodge, and very limited use of a hot key bar. To me, that is just more tedious than needed.

The only action game out there that has truly captured the essence of the genre to me is Vindictus. It is very fast paced combat, with click combinations to perform different attacks (on most characters) and dodging can come down to a fraction of a second to perform it properly. Combat never feels unwelcomed when I play this mmo.
Dragon Nest was similar in this regard but it has been a very long time since I have played it.

But to the point of the thread, perhaps a decline could be partly due to the over-saturation of such games coming out. Instead of action combat being the "new" thing, it has become the norm so the hype isn't there anymore.

[Deleted]

I can list about a dozen MMO's that transitioned from subscription based to F2P/hybrid and are either still around, or still getting content updates today because of it. I can list other MMO's that launched F2P and have been pretty good in quality and seen some pretty good updates. Also, many of these games can easily be argued to be "good" in part, or in whole.

The problem is, no sub > f2p game has been out long enough to really suffer the effects. A lot of games I have played previously, Drift City, Perfect World, have been made p2w over the course of its life, when developers know people will spend ludicrous amounts of money to win. Not only that but this "cosmetic items only" wares off quickly. People buy the stuff they like, and never have to buy it again, and games like Tera, which allows you to sell the items in the cash shop, just hurts the game as a whole because it'll only speed up the process in which they will start to add items to the cash shop that people actually need to progress. Cosmetic items only last a small amount of time, then companies need to find a new way to fund the game, that's when you find p2w kicks in.

[Gurg]

"Firefall" is currently in Open Beta, but you need a keycode to enter, there are a tons of forums/topics with keys from community mebmers cause you always get 5keys when you get an invite. Its good game, a bit.. clumsy for now since its Beta1 but it does really look promising. Ill prolly stick to it as for alternative way of fun. I like the idea of one character - all classes system where you only need to change your battleframe to change class. Frames are upgraded with XP, so no character upgrades at all (except cosmetic). I like idea of "active events" and constant moving to do something. Game it self will remind you heavily on starship troopers.

"Marvel: Heroes" will be released around 2nd June, even so release date is so close the game is currently in heavy closed beta phase with tons of heroes/content/talents to be added prior to release. I had a beta weekend invite and i liked it. As far as im informed its the team that worked on Diablo 2, and atmosphere is exactly the same (isometric view, similar UI and skill panel, similar world feel with mini dungeons as quest). The thing is that you can p2w, by doing so you only "buy hero packs" but, all of them can drop trough normal gameplay, which i like cause then it has high replay value. Dunno my feelings about it yet cause its still in Heavy beta phase, but i like its so far.

"Tera" is really nice gem in F2P world, its unique combat and gameplay system is pretty much "you love it or you hate it" there is no between. I moved from WoW as soon as 5.1 hit LIVE cause i really hate grinding stuff, and dailies became exactly that, a daily obligation if you want to progress. I had really hard time getting used to Tera combat system (playing archer - pretty much 3rd person shooter) but over the time i grew to like it. I would recommend it to anyone that is willing to try new combat system. Endgame bosses will pin you down to your keyboard not because they are insanely hard as in wow, but cause complete combat at end level is insanely fast and powerful, with Unreal 3 Engine behind it, combat AND game looks simply amazing.

"Defiance" I had preorder pack and got early game access.. I do like concept behind it, but on release date game was so insanely buggy, servers were crashing, people had insane number of errors that it was simply unplayable for first 7-10 days. I hear that people really like it, they are all giving good words about it, but as for me.. That launch event simply put me away from game.. 60$ wasted.. but ill return to it one day since i love postapocalyptic games.

"DCUO" Technically action combat, its good and interesting for whoever wants to see their heroes/villains in game. I did like it, but over the time i lost interest in it cause gameplay was a bit clunky.

"Vindictus" i have tried but somehow i dropped out on day 1.. Dunno why but game felt far more as Single player slash em up than actuall MMO, with heavy instancing that feeling just got stronger and i abandoned that ship long time ago.

With several others upcoming releases as Blade & Soul, Phantasy Star new MMORPG and several others, taking in the fact that WoW keeps constantly loosing SUBS scene is starting to look interesting. Mainly because people are getting bored of WoW and starting to look for alternatives, huge dev companies noticed that and now they can compete with WoW investing more resources in better quality titles.

[Deleted]

"Tera" is really nice gem in F2P world, its unique combat and gameplay system is pretty much "you love it or you hate it" there is no between. I moved from WoW as soon as 5.1 hit LIVE cause i really hate grinding stuff, and dailies became exactly that, a daily obligation if you want to progress. I had really hard time getting used to Tera combat system (playing archer - pretty much 3rd person shooter) but over the time i grew to like it. I would recommend it to anyone that is willing to try new combat system. Endgame bosses will pin you down to your keyboard not because they are insanely hard as in wow, but cause complete combat at end level is insanely fast and powerful, with Unreal 3 Engine behind it, combat AND game looks simply amazing.

So you moved to a game which is similar in terms of rep/daily grinding? Tera is a fun leveling experience, the combat system, if you are coming from a hotkey mmo is new and fresh, but it very quickly grows old. The problem with Tera, and a lot of these "new gen mmos" is that the end game still sucks. As you said it, MCHM (the final dungeon) is a cake walk if you are use to heroic content, heck even normal content in WoW. Other then that its rather nexus, do dailies or grind ET/LoT(solo) or KN. That's pretty much it. I would only recommend this game to anyone that is looking for someone to pass time between WoW patches. The end game will not suck anyone in that is use to having more then 3 bosses as end game content.

[Edge-]

The problem is, no sub > f2p game has been out long enough to really suffer the effects.

LOTRO and DDO have, and they still both seem to be doing pretty well. Don't get me wrong, they've had their issues in their cash shops but they've remained alive and haven't gone down the P2W road IIRC.

[schwank05]

There is also The Secret World: Great game, cool unique Horror theme. No levels, and Skills based off weapons. Fully customize your spec/build.