World of Warcraft: A victim of circumstance

[Axehandle]

So the sky is falling because numbers are low but it's not something just attributed to wow it's the entire mmo genre. The genre is driven by a certain type of gamer and when wow first came out they attracted the younger versions of this type of gamer. However, age and other interests have seen the backbone of the mmo genre move on leaving only the instant gratification and lazy new generation of gamers with a genre built on patient gameplay. Remember the original EQ and how difficult things were to advance levels? Remember vanilla and the sheer amount of time and gold it took to become a top tier raider? Heck in vanilla only the most dedicated players had high level alts that were geared but now anyone can have 7-8 alts all raid ready. The challenge has been drained from the game. It's not the end but it's a bad sign. Maybe blizzard will take notice and turn this game into one that attracts the remaining certain type of gamer and allows it to grow organically like it once did. Obviously focusing on the new target audience has proven to be short sighed for a long term business model. It's not the end but blizzard need to make the right changes.

[Zenko]

I hope we lose another few million subs. Would make Blizz churn out even better quality content.

[Gamerguy3223]

I hope we lose another few million subs. Would make Blizz churn out even better quality content.

Ya don't worry. We'll be losing more subscriptions. That's what happens, when you make a pay to play game, and then only listen to the lazy gamers.

I'd personally like a magic reset button. I'd hit it right now and put WoW back to BC systems. Back when you earned what you had, the game had immersion, and you had to socialize with the community. Screw everyone "seeing content". Back in the day......you earned that.

Call me old fashioned. However when you earn something....you tend to appreciate it much more.

[Nish77]

I don't know why people talk subs so much unless they're investing. Blizzard is a strong company and WoW isn't going anywhere. The game is pumping out tons of content and will continue to do so. This game will go on even if there are 1 million subs. How many expansions were there to eq that never had more than 1-2 mill subs? Like 25 and it's still going I think?

Anyways, WoW is fine and still the best MMO on the market.

The End.

[Bullettime]

I hope we lose another few million subs. Would make Blizz churn out even better quality content.

Have you even played MoP? This has expansion has been some of their best work ever.

They simply messed up with the Valor Point gear, having dailies linked to the rep which is in turn required to use Valor. The dailies are fine. Forcing them on people to buy Valor gear isn't. This burnt out a lot of people and made the expansion very alt unfriendly.

Asia sub losses (over half of the 1.3m) come from the massively growing F2P market over there. They even said that in the conference.

The best part about the post sub loss threads is that you get to keep reading people citing that their personal opinion is why Blizzard is a failure instead of looking at the actual reasons why. Subscription losses don't always correlate to game quality.

[hulkgor]

Absolutely agree with the original post and the replies.

Blizzard actually 'thought' that players wanted instant gratification, and that they wanted to 'see' the content without adequate challenges (LFR is just... the worst) whilst doing it.. what happened? They don't care. If you don't work towards an objective, and have it handed to you, you won't enjoy it nearly as much as you would otherwise.

I still remember looking forward to 'catch up' and reach the higher tiered raids on my classic\tbc days, and whilst still working on C'thun, we were already looking forward to venture to Naxxramas, never for a second thinking we should be able to just run in as others guilds that were up to that point. Raids had progression... now, whenever new content is released, all the rest is just left behind, and people don't really care about completing it, they just want to 'see the new one', without actually working towards it.

No real reward, no reason to keep playing. BAM, subscriptions plummet.

[Tauren]

Rip in Peace Wow And blizzerd

[Chareoss]

If you go back to the way the game was in vanilla with the amount of "time and gold" it needed to become a top raider, the subs would drop faster than they are dropping now mate. Making the game less accessible to people and more time consuming is NOT going to save it, lol. I can't believe the mind set of some people. The game peaked in Wrath for a reason.

If you think the challenge of the game should be based around how much of life you DON'T have outside of it, then I pity you. The challenge is still there if you pursue it. Do you have 9/9 gold from Challenge Modes? Personally that's probably the one thing that is keeping me subbed right now. Have you completed Heroic Mode raids? Glad in this PVP season? Wake up to yourself, gone are the days of playing this game hours and hours on end and I for one am damn glad they are.

I don't agree with alot of things that have changed with the game since BC, especially stuff like raid finder, but I can garuntee you making it more difficult and more time consuming is NOT going to stop the sub count from dropping. Quite the opposite, probably.

[jax]

So the sky is falling because numbers are low but it's not something just attributed to wow it's the entire mmo genre. The genre is driven by a certain type of gamer and when wow first came out they attracted the younger versions of this type of gamer. However, age and other interests have seen the backbone of the mmo genre move on leaving only the instant gratification and lazy new generation of gamers with a genre built on patient gameplay

.

Not sure what your point is? We all know that todays youth are IG brats... but if you want to remain relevant and make money in todays world... thats who you cater to. End of discussion.

Remember the original EQ and how difficult things were to advance levels?

I dont remember any level being difficult, I remember them taking along time to get the exp... level 51 hell level was one of the worst offenders! But by no means was any of the leveling actually hard, just mind numbing time sinks.

Remember vanilla and the sheer amount of time and gold it took to become a top tier raider?

Now your speaking the right language... time sinks is what Vanilla was all about... the fights were not even close to being hard... but it took alot to be ready for them.

Heck in vanilla only the most dedicated players had high level alts that were geared but now anyone can have 7-8 alts all raid ready.

Again, Blizz has to cater to todays gamer, no big secret here.

The challenge has been drained from the game.

I respectfully disagree with you, challenge modes are hard core, heroics raiding is hard core, hell the time sinks that are dailies for rep and gear at the beginning of MoP was pretty hardcore.

Maybe blizzard will take notice and turn this game into one that attracts the remaining certain type of gamer and allows it to grow organically like it once did. Obviously focusing on the new target audience has proven to be short sighed for a long term business model. It's not the end but blizzard need to make the right changes.

Not sure if your playing the same game as the rest of us but the last 2 expacs have been aimed at the hardcore raider and MoP is such a time sink alot of casuals have just said goodbye. (1.8 million in the past 6 months to be exact) Blizz themselves admitted that MoP just didnt resonate with the casual player yet you think making things "harder" (not sure if adding even more time sinks is harder but w/e) will somehow arrest the masses leaving in droves because what???

/boggle

[mistahwilshire]

WoW isn't going anywhere for another few years. You all are so easily excited and frankly dumb.

[JhanZ]

I hope we lose another few million subs. Would make Blizz churn out even better quality content.

I hope we only have 5,000 subs at the end of the day. Can you imagine the sheer quality of content Blizzard would be pumping out at that point? Dear Lord Almighty, it would be glorious.

[Shampro]

8.3 million is low LOL (actually laughed). All these threads are hilarious, suddenly everyone is a Game designer and knows better. Be back in a week.

[Zenko]

Have you even played MoP? This has expansion has been some of their best work ever.

They simply messed up with the Valor Point gear, having dailies linked to the rep which is in turn required to use Valor. The dailies are fine. Forcing them on people to buy Valor gear isn't. This burnt out a lot of people and made the expansion very alt unfriendly.

Asia sub losses (over half of the 1.3m) come from the massively growing F2P market over there. They even said that in the conference.

The best part about the post sub loss threads is that you get to keep reading people citing that their personal opinion is why Blizzard is a failure instead of looking at the actual reasons why. Subscription losses don't always correlate to game quality.

Did you read my post? I never said MoP was bad. Its awesome compared to past efforts.

If WoW had like 4-5 million subs with healthy competition from other games then this game would be even better than how good MoP is right now.

[Usagi Senshi]

Call me old fashioned. However when you earn something....you tend to appreciate it much more.

*gets his fist weapon off Alar finally*

week later.....

*gets the fist weapon from Hyjal trash that's better and vendors the Alar weapon*

No appreciation at all, loot is a means to en end for me and I only care about boss kills, mounts, and achieves. I don't even care if other people get them easier after I do as long as they're having fun.

Also, I wanted LFR back in TBC after they hinted towards it after Xrealm BGs.

[darkwarrior42]

I never understood why making something time consuming somehow made it automatically more satisfying.

Things that take a long time in real life tend to take a long time because there is a lot of different or necessary work involved, which is satisfying. Tasks that take a long time but don't require such tasks typically aren't satisfying because of the time involved. Cooking, for instance, can be immensely satisfying to me... but I get no more satisfaction out of cooking for 3 hours than I do for 30 minutes, because typically the former involves about 30 minutes of prep work and 2.5 hours of waiting for the oven to cook my food.

*shrug* Challenge is good, immersion is good, pointless time sinks are pointless.

[dacoolist]

This is literally like thread 200 on this topic.

-> The games OLD FOLKS!!! IDK how many times it takes to say it

[Rizendragon]

Ya don't worry. We'll be losing more subscriptions. That's what happens, when you make a pay to play game, and then only listen to the lazy gamers.

I'd personally like a magic reset button. I'd hit it right now and put WoW back to BC systems. Back when you earned what you had, the game had immersion, and you had to socialize with the community. Screw everyone "seeing content". Back in the day......you earned that.

Call me old fashioned. However when you earn something....you tend to appreciate it much more.

Even back to pre-nerf ICC. take out dungeon finder and lfr and you're in business. Wrath wasn't a ton different from BC really. Main thing I can think of is that there was a 10 and 25 version of every raid. That imo is a good thing.

[dusselldorf]

Obviously focusing on the new target audience has proven to be short sighed for a long term business model.

Nearly 10 years at the top of a genre. What do you consider "long term?"

[Axehandle]

Nearly 10 years at the top of a genre. What do you consider "long term?"

Right, wow has been out for near a decade but did they always target the same audience?

You seem to think so

[mjolnir1122]

Ya don't worry. We'll be losing more subscriptions. That's what happens, when you make a pay to play game, and then only listen to the lazy gamers.

I'd personally like a magic reset button. I'd hit it right now and put WoW back to BC systems. Back when you earned what you had, the game had immersion, and you had to socialize with the community. Screw everyone "seeing content". Back in the day......you earned that.

Call me old fashioned. However when you earn something....you tend to appreciate it much more.

If we were talking about real life situations, then I would completely agree with you.

But were talking about a video game here, and to be honest it's one of the few luxuries I can still afford, and most of my guild members are in the same position. None of us have the time to dedicate to the game like it was back in TBC. Remember TBC came out 6 or 7 years ago, back when alot of the player base was in High School or College. People had the time because they didn't have the same responsibilities they do now. The economy was also alot stronger, and it wasn't a dead end struggle just to find a minimum wage job.

Right now I can't find work, my bills are piling up, I'm in debt. My Fiancee is a freelance writer and even her business is struggling. I can't afford to go to the movies, or buy movies, or buy new video games, or even go out on a nice date with her. My days are spent sending in job applications, fending off debt collectors, or doing various work around the house. WoW is literally one of the only things I have in the way of entertainment, as well as a way to manage stress. I know many who are in my same exact position.

If I'm paying my 15 bucks a month like you are, then why in hell should I be limited to 10% of the content, when either the way it is now, or the way it was then, people like you lose absolutely nothing? So that the 5% of the WoW community can have that special snowflake feeling back? Listen, I'm never going to be able to set foot in current Heroic raids, that's a fact. I'm probably never going to even make it through normal mode when it's current.

When I first started playing, I had both time and money. Nowadays I have neither. But the difference between people like you and people like me, is that I don't see a need to limit people who aren't as fortunate from playing something that they truly enjoy. I didn't back then, and I don't now.

This isn't about being old fashioned. That term has real life applications. The fact is, you've got an elitist attitude. You played back in TBC? Whoopdeefuckingdo. Noone gives a shit about that. Every time I hear that Nostalgia schpiel, I just have to say stop seeing things through rose tinted glasses. Sure, the social aspect of the game may have been better, but that's about it. Guaranteed theres at least 3 things they've added since WoTLK that you enjoy and wouldn't want to see removed.

And one last thing, don't fucking assume that all "casual" players are "lazy" players. Get off your fucking high horse brah, I have to work 10 times harder than you to get to the same point you're at, simply because I don't have the time to devote to the game like you do. You're the one who's basically getting everything handed to you, not me.