Could blizzard really remove something this ingrained in WoW?

[teddytous]

The answer is incentive world PVP. Not take away ways to avoid it.

[Baine]

No flying mounts? Over my dead body.

[ComputerNerd]

The answer is incentive world PVP. Not take away ways to avoid it.

If you need to bribe players, then that proves that something is horribly wrong with the community.

It simply is not feasible to do any more with any sort of reward or incentives due to the inherently unbalanced nature of it.
That is why battlegrounds are rewarding, and outdoor pvp is not.
Because one is as close as we will get to balance, and the other has none.

[Seranthor]

Most people find it very convenient and a small few point to it as one of the worst additions to the game. I'm talking about the world pvp killer, yes friends im talking about flying mounts. Now for those that want it gone I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation of how it could be removed without hurting certain parts of the game for example without flying it would've been impossible to do any of the Eye dungeons or TK. So please I am very curious to how the designers could remove flying entirely and I welcome your thoughts and opinions.

the Answer is NO they cant, NO they wont, NO they shouldn't, and YES you should stop trying to campaign for it...

[Sinndra]

jeez.. flying mounts are not in any way shape or form the "WPvP killer". lack of incentives are. there is no incentive to the other people who prefer flying to avoid gankers, to getting down and handling their business. give people a reason to fight and the fighting will ensue. we dont need to punish those who are not interested in the first place.

problem solved. crying over.

[hyphnos]

No. The world is sized assuming that players have flying mounts and the speed and ability to go over things that goes with it.

Let's think about this for like 15 seconds. How long would it take to get to Isle of Thunder from the cities? How long from there to Oondasta's island?

What about the zones that require flying?

They MIGHT be able to add a new expac area that is sized appropriately and leave flying elsewhere, however, given that flying mounts abound and that flying is one of the things that set WoW apart when it was introduced, it would be a huge mistake.

Also, world PVP matters not in the slightest to the much larger number of players on PVE servers.

TLDR: No

[Deleted]

No, they couldn't. Most of the game is now designed around time efficiency.

The second the change dropped, people would be complaining that they spend more time traveling everywhere than they do playing the game.

But I have to say, not that I disagree entirely, but what if everybody started walking again then everybody would start figthing each others again so that's what a pvp realm should be like right?

[dokilar]

like everyone here has already said, flying mounts didnt kill world pvp in any shape or form, all it did was give people easier access to the questing areas in the particular zone theyre in. people still run around on the ground in the area where their quests take them. most quests havent changed over the years, its still a bunch of kill X, gather Y quests. if you truly want to engage in wpvp hang out in those areas.

i love pvping, its the main thing i look forward to in just about any game i play. sadly wpvp is generally the worst form of pvp. i actually played on a pve server but i was almost always flagged for pvp because i just came out of a bg or an arena and just never turned it off. people only engaged me when i was either low health or had 2 or 3 mobs beating on me.

id also like to point out that wpvp wasnt dead in BC, in fact id wager a bet that on my server, more wpvp took place during BC than in vanilla. halaa, hellfire towers, zangarmarsh towers, and terrokar towers were always a hot point. just my opinion however

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 03:28 AM ----------

But I have to say, not that I disagree entirely, but what if everybody started walking again then everybody would start figthing each others again so that's what a pvp realm should be like right?

maybe, maybe not. ive rolled alts on pvp realms where people would just run by me and not attack me or anything

[Calzaeth]

The only way I can imagine that would even be close to possible ("close" is relative), would by having rental flying mounts.

X [currency] = A flying mount for Y minutes. "Loaned" mounts for quests that require flying, Storm Peaks-style.

It would suck hard. But it would also take into account zones made for flying, people couldn't just mount up willy-nilly to avoid wPvP, but they could simply avoid landing in the first place as well.

Like I said, not a good solution, but the only one I can imagine being possible.

[Florena]

Looking back at all the debates of what did or didn't 'kill' wpvp makes me wonder...

Do people really enjoy it? BGs (and later arena/rbgs) give a way to get the pvp gear and rewards much more efficiently than wpvp, and a lot of the wpvp dries up. They also provide a structured, relatively fair setup, at the very least balancing numbers if nothing else.

Flying mounts come out, and it becomes easier to avoid wpvp when questing/farming. People could, in most areas, not use them at all, and only pull the flying mount out when they HAVE to fly to get somewhere. Yet everyone flies.

Blizzard puts wpvp objectives out in the world at times, yet people don't seem to fight over them much.

Which makes me wonder. Is there a significant playerbase that really does enjoy wpvp but needs to be given incentive to justify doing it? Or are those that actually enjoy WPvP just a minority that aren't willing to go out of there way to do it, and want it to just happen?

All of that said, there are some realms that do have some healthy WPvP going on like Emerald Dream.

[Sinndra]

Which makes me wonder. Is there a significant playerbase that really does enjoy wpvp but needs to be given incentive to justify doing it? Or are those that actually enjoy WPvP just a minority that aren't willing to go out of there way to do it, and want it to just happen?

i think there is room for WPvP, just that it needs better rewards. something unique to itself. yes people want rewards for their daily activities. if you want this to flourish, a Halaa, or WPLagueland, type of thing isnt the way to go, mostly because its restricted to those zones. that is Zone PvP. world pvp needs to be something can has no restriction to zones but yet rewards the players who take part.

add special titles/mounts/tmog gear.. paid for by currency only gathered by fighting in the world. and there we go. battles would erupt all over,

as it is now, players are simply doing the things that offer them a reward and stopping to pvp is only slowing them down from getting those rewards.

[Florena]

i think there is room for WPvP, just that it needs better rewards. something unique to itself. yes people want rewards for their daily activities. if you want this to flourish, a Halaa, or WPLagueland, type of thing isnt the way to go, mostly because its restricted to those zones. that is Zone PvP. world pvp needs to be something can has no restriction to zones but yet rewards the players who take part.

add special titles/mounts/tmog gear.. paid for by currency only gathered by fighting in the world. and there we go. battles would erupt all over,

I know there are some people that legitimately do like WPvP. But I wonder more and more, just how big is that group? If people only do WPvP to get the rewards you mention, and then stop doing WPvP, are they doing it because they like wpvp or because they just want the rewards and that's the only way to get it>

[Steelangel]

Your idea has been heard before, rejected for a raft of excellent reasons, and needs to be buried in the earth and forgotten.

[Sinndra]

I know there are some people that legitimately do like WPvP. But I wonder more and more, just how big is that group? If people only do WPvP to get the rewards you mention, and then stop doing WPvP, are they doing it because they like wpvp or because they just want the rewards and that's the only way to get it>

yah its prolly a bit of both.. but adding in better rewards would help those that would just rather avoid it since it slows them down. i mean it seems the bigger issue is how to encourage WPvP? wouldnt the people that enjoy WPvP be happy if they had more people to fight? who cares why they fight...

[MMKing]

It's to late for that. It was to late a couple months after BC launch. Reworking the entirety of the game in order to remove flying mounts from it would probably take allot of time. And Blizzard has stated that players leave, then return later when new content is available. So i doubt Blizzard will gamble on ground mounts bringing back millions of players.

Also, i have serious doubts removing flying mount would make the situation solve itself by a month or two. Since classic, Blizzard has made very drastic changes in the way PVP works. Changes that encourage BG pvp over open world PVP.

[Florena]

The tricky balance is to give people an incentive to WPvP, but not make WPvP feel mandatory in any way. And the fact that wpvp is inherently unfair and unbalance doesn't help things either. You can't make the rewards TOO good or people feel forced, even if they aren't, to do wpvp just like with dailies at MoP launch. Or you run the risk of exploits like the Tol'Barad win trading that was rampant for a while when capturing it on offense got you lots of points.

In the end, the more I think about it, I think blizzard's current methodology is pretty much the best we can hope for. Give us reasons to be out in the world (gear vendors out in the world and not capital cities, conflicting daily quest hubs, rare spawns, world bosses etc) and let the players make the WPvP themselves.

[The Madgod]

Yeah as has been said, flying mounts don't mean anything in regards to the decline of world PvP.

The community simply no longer really has the desire to participate in it. It doesn't provide any rewards and in today's community that means it's not worth one's time.

[Thelxi]

There is no way Blizzard can outright remove them at this point. They do however limit it more and more, with no flying zones and level restrictions. Of course this is Blizzard so you never really know.

[Shakari]

Don't need ramps. As someone stated earlier, ropes and other means can be used to gain altitude. It works in other games. Attach to a rope, move vertically. GG.

Flying is not necessary. Adding climbing ropes and ladders to get to cliffs and other high areas would force us to explore and actually experience the world instead of fly over it. People who fly from A to B to just get shit done don't really care about the game, they're just doing the grind they're addicted to or forced to do because of X reason.

Indeed so your saying there not enjoying what there doing or are forced to do it... and your suggesting forcing them to take even longer doing it by removing flying mounts? How is that going to improve there game or even make them want to keep playing it.

If I don't want to stop and look at the scenery (that I have seen 5-6 times before btw), the ONLY think removing flying mounts is going to do is annoy me to the point I do not want to play. You cannot force people to enjoy looking at the scenery, its a time sink and thats all lol

And there are plently of times I've gone to look at something on a flying mount for an unusual scene or view that I would not have noticed on the ground.


There are zero good reasons for removal of flying and many for the benefits it gives. If you don't like em don't use em its that simple.

[Thimagryn]

If you need to bribe players, then that proves that something is horribly wrong with the community.

It simply is not feasible to do any more with any sort of reward or incentives due to the inherently unbalanced nature of it.
That is why battlegrounds are rewarding, and outdoor pvp is not.
Because one is as close as we will get to balance, and the other has none.

"An incentive is something that motivates an individual to perform an action."

Doesn't mean it has to be rewards, but it means goals or at the very least something meaningful to achieve outside of griefing. Because that's what most World PVP is without any real goals to achieve. Why are you fighting an army of other faction if you have nothing reasonable to gain out of it? Now if they gave an actual reason to sack towns or capture territory, then it could be fun. Their previous attempts at world PVP goals have been pretty lackluster. 5-10% bonus EXP for the zone? But what if it was like Wintergrasp, where you actually get access to special quests and vendors, as well as to a zone with a special boss? Now you have a reason to fight.