LFR has to go

[Deleted]

If they decided to ditch LFR now that 1.3m subs loss would have looked more like 4m.

[melodramocracy]

I wouldn't mind LFR being gone if they went back to the Wrath model of 25>10 man in terms of difficulty and loot (and being able to do both in one week, most importantly).

Folks didn't like that doing both felt mandatory (hey, I see a pattern here), nor was every 25 encounter harder than 10. Many were easier actually. Seperate loot is something I miss as well, especially when unique items dropped on 25 only (Patchwerks bow, for example).

[Lucetia]

It lessens the incentive to raid proper difficulties. When you can see all the bosses in LFR, why would any casual bother doing normal modes?

If Blizzards wants to give out welfare epics, they can do so in another way. Perhaps by reimplementing 3.3-esque dungeons.

Because people who don't want to do normal/heroic difficulties only did them to see the story/bosses. Now that LFR is available they can see them on their own time. So you are wanting to force people back into a model that they didn't find enjoyable to start with to satisfy some artificial epeen you might have about it all?

[Tomana]

But raiding has always been an element of the game that the majority of players don't participate in... yet they're still considered a primary element of patches, expansions, etc. And again, it's likely that they develop one raid, and then simply add / remove numbers and abilities to create the rest.

That's because the WoW devs are "old school". And also because now, you can justify creating raids because people who are not regular raiders can participate in them through LFR. What they will no longer do is something like SWP.

[Nobleshield]

These threads have to go.

That and the dead flogged horse in the corner, it's stinking up the place

Not only that but its always the same type of person who posts this shit. The OP has "the Fearless" title. According to WoWProgress his guild is #5 on his realm, and #856 in the West. He's not the type of person to run LFR for any reason other than getting a 4pc or maybe a trinket/weapon that never seems to drop in normal or heroic mode. And yet LFR "has to go" presumably because it means that the unwashed scrubs will have gear that is kind of like his but not really.

[RoKPaNda]

LFR is fine as it is.

You are right though about it leading some casual people to not want to do the "proper difficulties." - I ran an LFR with a guild on my server a couple weeks back and afterwards they asked me if I'd like to join because it appeared that I knew what I was doing and they had an open DPS spot. I politely declined, and said it was because my schedule isn't set in stone and doesn't allow me to follow a raid schedule, which is true ... However it got me thinking, if my schedule would allow me to raid, would I want to? And the answer is no, I'm quite content with LFR. I honestly don't even miss "real raiding."

[Nobleshield]

Folks didn't like that doing both felt mandatory (hey, I see a pattern here), nor was every 25 encounter harder than 10. Many were easier actually. Seperate loot is something I miss as well, especially when unique items dropped on 25 only (Patchwerks bow, for example).

The solution to this is to make the item drops the same, but 10 has a bit lower iLevel. It's no longer mandatory because before 25M had BiS drops while 10M usually has shit drops, but if you can do 25s you get gear that's slightly better.

[Facepalmer3]

It lessens the incentive to raid proper difficulties.

That's not true. According to Blizzard, before raid finder, people weren't raiding at all. They say a substantial increase in Raiding thanks to raid finder. I can attest personally that because of raid finder I started normal raiding. It's a good stepping stone.

[Tomana]

Not only that but its always the same type of person who posts this shit. The OP has "the Fearless" title. According to WoWProgress his guild is #5 on his realm, and #856 in the West. He's not the type of person to run LFR for any reason other than getting a 4pc or maybe a trinket/weapon that never seems to drop in normal or heroic mode. And yet LFR "has to go" presumably because it means that the unwashed scrubs will have gear that is kind of like his but not really.

Obviously. How do those casuals dare getting epic gear!!!

[whatthefudge]

It lessens the incentive to raid proper difficulties. When you can see all the bosses in LFR, why would any casual bother doing normal modes?

Seeing and enjoying the aesthetics of a dungeon/raid and its bosses is only a small part of what raiding is. The enjoyment for people who enjoy doing normal mode over LFR, or heroic mode over normal, is solving and executing more and more raid boss puzzles with the set of tools you are given and pushing their abilities to their maximums. For players that primarily play for the aesthetics, LFR gives them another way to do that without the trouble of getting an organized group or putting in time learning encounters.

The reality is that LFR allows more players to enjoy the game, not less.

[JohnBrown1917]

Then go raid!

I don't enjoy scheduled raiding.

[urasim]

Haha, i love that term, 'welfare epics'. As if somehow casuals for some reason don't deserve to have epic quality gear.

Normal mode offers higher difficulty which in turn, in my opinion, means it offers more fun, which (my own opinion again) is reward enough considering this is a game...

This post is semi-elitist and is not constructive.

Edit: By 'this post' i mean your thread.

I think that you should work for your epics. Handing them out like they are nothing diminishes their value, and makes for really, really boring game play. Also, LFR lessens the social aspect of the game.

Lets see.....

Can't pug because I have no experience. Can't get experience because they won't take me in a pug. Infinite loop is awesome!

No. Just no. Stop posting this crap.

LFR is not the place to learn content. Mostly because there are mechanics that differ between them, and strategies are different depending on raid comp and raid size. Watch videos and read guides, and try to understand the mechanics. There are so many tools out there that basically hold your hand through the content.

[Bizerk]

Its too late to remove lfr now, would be nice if it never existed though.

[melodramocracy]

Seeing and enjoying the aesthetics of a dungeon/raid and its bosses is only a small part of what raiding is. The enjoyment for people who enjoy doing normal mode over LFR, or heroic mode over normal, is solving and executing more and more raid boss puzzles with the set of tools you are given and pushing their abilities to their maximums. For players that primarily play for the aesthetics, LFR gives them another way to do that without the trouble of getting an organized group or putting in time learning encounters.

The reality is that LFR allows more players to enjoy the game, not less.

He has a point though. LFR should stay in some form, and it does all the things you state, but it also certainly impacts guilds in this game, and participation in normal modes.

Fewer guilds are killing even a single boss in this tier, and it's not because they can't. It's because less people are bothering with it to begin with.

Long term, this is going to be VERY unhealthy for the game. The further this game essentially leans towards a single player experience, the faster players will realize that they're paying a sub for very little benefit.

[urasim]

Seeing and enjoying the aesthetics of a dungeon/raid and its bosses is only a small part of what raiding is. The enjoyment for people who enjoy doing normal mode over LFR, or heroic mode over normal, is solving and executing more and more raid boss puzzles with the set of tools you are given and pushing their abilities to their maximums. For players that primarily play for the aesthetics, LFR gives them another way to do that without the trouble of getting an organized group or putting in time learning encounters.

How are new players even going to know the joy of raiding harder things when they don't need to? They see LFR and they are content with just doing them without ever knowing that there is joy in raiding harder stuff. Also, who are you to say what is and isn't enjoyable for other people? Do you represent everyone?

[ZakAtack]

Lfr killed what was already the near dead social aspect of wow for most players. What a shame they turned an mmorpg into a single player lobby game with a grouping feature.

I agree, I feel like this is the part of LFR that's actually really bad. It was a little disheartening to see everyone and their mom kill Sha of Fear and now to see everyone complain about wiping 4-5 times on Lei Shen, but that's not as bad as what these queue tools are doing to the social aspect. We can debate community vs convenience all day long, but you can't say that nothing at all has been lost in return for the ease of creating a group.

[SoulForge]

LFR is not the place to learn content. Mostly because there are mechanics that differ between them, and strategies are different depending on raid comp and raid size. Watch videos and read guides, and try to understand the mechanics. There are so many tools out there that basically hold your hand through the content.

I don't think I ever said it was. I said I can't learn them or get experience because no one will take me without already knowing them.

[whatthefudge]

He has a point though. LFR should stay in some form, and it does all the things you state, but it also certainly impacts guilds in this game, and participation in normal modes.

Fewer guilds are killing even a single boss in this tier, and it's not because they can't. It's because less people are bothering with it to begin with.

Long term, this is going to be VERY unhealthy for the game. The further this game essentially leans towards a single player experience, the faster players will realize that they're paying a sub for very little benefit.

Fair enough. The group of players that like to just see content once and move on can now just do LFR and then unsub, leading to less players and potentially down the line less effort from developers. We haven't seen that yet though, as content in the game is as high a quality as it has ever been.

How are new players even going to know the joy of raiding harder things when they don't need to? They see LFR and they are content with just doing them without ever knowing that there is joy in raiding harder stuff. Also, who are you to say what is and isn't enjoyable for other people? Do you represent everyone?

If someone wants more of a challenge they'll make an effort to take the next step, if they don't want to then they want. Need has NOTHING to do with it.

And where on earth do you get the idea that I'm trying to tell people what is and isn't enjoyable for them? The ENTIRE point of my post was that enjoyment is subjective and different people like different things and since LFR adds another option to the game it makes the game enjoyable for a larger number of people.

[Penguintamer]

If they decided to ditch LFR now that 1.3m subs loss would have looked more like 4m.

Eh, aside from them killing off 25 man guilds, LFR is one of the biggest changes to the game that are making so many subscribers quit in the first place. The whole system of raiding is cheap now.

[whatthefudge]

Eh, aside from them killing off 25 man guilds, LFR is one of the biggest changes to the game that are making so many subscribers quit in the first place. The whole system of raiding is cheap now.

Anything to back up your completely baseless claim?