Heroic Iron Qon 25 advice needed

[Saoron]

Hey.. As a more general question first, between this, primo, and council which one do you think would be the best choice first ?

Regarding Qon tho, I was wondering how you guys handled this fight ? If someone has tips and a basic to do list for each phase that would be quite helpful..

Also, what's the best way to handle the flame stacks in P1 (have 2 rogues in raid) and the one thing I was curious about in P2/3 how do melee drop the lightning debuff ? In P2, we need high dps to push before the 2nd windstorm, so wouldn't be feasible for melee to run out and drop it one by one.. And in P3 they have to stack for unleashed again.. So how is that handled ? Any other tips would be helpful as well.

[Deleted]

We're currently on Qon Heroic, although we have not touched Council or Primordius yet. Qon is not a really difficult fight, I believe some say it's easier on 10heroic, I wouldn't know though.

We have 1 melee group and 2 ranged groups soaking. It typically goes Melee for 3 stacks (I think) > 1 of the ranged groups for 3 stacks > Melee and will continue like that until it's over. Obviously, the ranged group which stacks is determined by which direction he throws his spear. The side opposite to his spear throw stacks. (Sorry if this wasn't the answer to that part you were looking for :P).
You can use 2 or 3 Rogues I think, using 2 melee groups, have them drop stacks (however they do that), and join the 2nd group to soak again. I am not 100% clear on how that works, one of our guild members mentioned it but we do not have the luxury of having more than 2 Rogues atm so we just go with the way I described above.

The Lightning Debuff on melee isn't too bad actually, as far as I know, if one melee get it, they probably all will get it at the same time, so in theory all the debuffs will drop off at the same time. Our main issue was with Ranged / Healers moving slightly too close to others and spreading it, wasn't a big issue for the melee and yes, you want to push it so you get 1 Windstorm, at our worst, we had him transition just as he entered the 2nd Windstorm which made it a little messy.

The overall kill order on the dogs before you start nuking the boss varies between guilds. We have found Quet'zal > Ro'shak > Dam'ren works for us.. that may be something you have to test out for yourself and see how it works.
We've not yet killed it but should do tomorrow I think (with luck) so I can't advise past this point


Sorry if some of this info is slightly off, I just know how to do what I have to do and know the basics of what other may have to do so it may be slightly inaccurate :P
Was just trying to help all the same!

[fangless]

Melee can stack after the tornado phase, and the debuff will expire at the same time.

[Brakthir]

We just have melee take up to 13-14 stacks (depending on how good your dps is). It gets a bit sketchy at times but with proper cooldown usage, you should be fine. We also don't run out for the lightning debuff, we let it expire naturally.

[Skroe]

Iron Qon is pretty easy if you stack melee. The more melee you have the harder the fight is.

The best way to deal with stacks is to have those that can drop it with a button press (rogues, paladins, feral druids with pally symb) do it at 7. Have the classes that cant drop it spread to the side as not to get stacks until they drop to 0, then restarted taking stacks again in P1.

To be honest though, you should do Council before this. Iron Qon is easier, but Council is at the start of the instance and you should collect heroic gear off of them every week asap, gear you'll want later on.

Primordius is an odd case. There are people who will call him the easiest of the 3, but I think he's the toughest. The difficulty varies from guild to guild based upon comp and method of killing it. There are two major ways to do Council, pretty much one way to do Iron Qon, but like at least five major ways to do Primordius. It's mostly a matter of picking a good one for your guild and your comp.

[fangless]

We tackle the melee fire phase by having an even split on both sides, and then anyone who can shed the debuff also left (so that group has more people and gets the boss' attention. That fire group will get 7 or so, and then the few people who can will clear their debuff and run to the right group (so that the right group has more people). They go to 6-7, and by then we're out of phase 1.

[KaPe]

Iron Qon is pretty easy if you stack melee. The more melee you have the harder the fight is.

Huh. Well, that's pretty... deep, I guess.

[Deleted]

Huh. Well, that's pretty... deep, I guess.

"What's your style?"

"My style? You can call it the art of fighting without fighting"

Deeeeeeeeep!

[fangless]

Honestly, as a melee, it's a fight I don't really feel like a hindrance. There have definitely been worse fights :P

[Deleted]

Bumping this a bit. Trying it tonight.

I was wondering about the kill order and why so. I read frost > Fire > wind, but I don't see why frost would be more dangerous than fire. I guess this is because the dogs land later than frost which is already there.

Anyway, are there any subtelties I should be aware of ?

For now, we're planning to have 3 groups for p1 with a melee grp and 2 ranged grp (only one will take stacks, just depending on where the spear lands). So grp1 : 3 stacks. Grp2 or 3 : 3 stacks. Then grp 1 etc...

For P2, I understand you just need to look out for not spreading the debuff and melee should always stack up at the end of a storm to drop their debuffs. You need to push dps to only have 1 wind storm.

P3, just stay spread and get rid of both lightning and ice debuffs before p4. Lust at around 35% after a deadzone to get him down quickly before the other dogs land.

Focus Fire as soon as he lands and keep same rotation as p1 ( ideally a grp with no lightning debuff shall stack after melee) Get a big cooldown for this phase so you can survive 1st smash + explosion. Then kill last dog, spread till you cleared all debuffs, then stack up and start using raid at 40% health.

Last would be using anly 1 tank and 6 healers due to the insane vengeance (boping before 1st windstorm and before p4). Though we have at least 2 pallys in the raid so I guess using 3 + and extra for last phase would be a little help.

So, anything I'm missing ?

[Fluorescent0]

With two rogues, the best thing to do would be to have four more melees in raid (tanks not included). You get groups of five going, with the rogues always in and feinting at 4+ stacks, resetting at 7 via clok of shadows and the others switching at three stacks. The tanks are going to be switching based on soaking instead of stacks, but that debuff doesn't hurt too much to begin with, and if it's giving you problems you can bop it off. That way ranged will not need to move unless it's for freeing people, which allows for less debuff spreading. Phase two is pretty much identical to normal, you're already spread so the added mechanic only means more damage on the raid. Phase three, just have all the melees standing together and ranged spread out. Phase four, blow bloodlust when all the three dogs come down, kill dam'ren->ro'shak->quetzal while all melees just stay stacked up, as soon as quetzal is dead every ranged without the debuff goes in melee to stack up, while those with the debuff wait outside until it expires. You should only have to tank one fist smash while spread out, two tops.
Frost is getting killed first due to his shield affecting all dogs (it's actually a debuff on players) even if he's tanked 50+ yards away.
Don't bother saving CDs only sub 40%, you're only going to get 7-8 smashes through the whole phase, cycling them is much safer.

[Brakthir]

Over complicating things in P1 in my opinion. Just stack all melee right behind the boss. Stack as many as you can. We start using raid cooldowns around the 8th stack, and we go till the 14th or so. Melee have to move to avoid the spear lines of fire but other than that, with good healing+proper usage of cooldowns, you should be fine.

P2 is easy, just burn boss before 2nd windstorm goes out. P3 is also easy, avoid things on ground, focus dps. Have someone call to hold dps, we usually stop around 30% and then a few seconds before deadzone is cast, call for a full burn+blood lust. Kill Frost guy fast, then swap over to fire dude, then wind dude and then finally boss. Make sure cooldowns are going off for fist smashes.

[Deleted]

Yesterday, we did something pretty simple which was doing a group of 3 rogues going from a group of 3 melee to another for 3 stacks each. Rogues would just shadow cloak at 6-7 stacks and then asap. It makes things very simple. We didn't have enough dps though but that's because we had a bit too many apply and lacking heroic gear. Anyhow, thanks for advices guys. Much appreciated.

[Saoron]

well just stacking all melee together and making them go till 14 stacks is the simplest way but how many melee would you need for that to be feasible ? 14 seems a bit high to me.. And can you afford to blow major raid cd's during p1 ? like would you need it for p2 ? During windstorm or right after to heal ppl back up cuz everyone will be debuffed etc..

[Rezhial]

This fight in my opinion is probably the easiest fight in the instance, minus Jin'Rohk. We killed it on our 5th pull with this Strat.

Phase 1: melee stack to 9-10, then one ranged group take the remaining stacks, typically only 3.
Phase 2: basically spread out trying to rid the debuff as fast as possible, making sure you only get one storm.
Phase 3: I don't think we changed anything from normal mode, just stay out of the blue lines.
All dogs: lust and burn fire > wind > ice. Typically the wind and ice will die at the same time due to ice already being in front of you as the others still need time to land.
Just Qon: this phase with the right coordination of raid CDs is a joke. Our kill had 6 dps dead and we still managed to kill it with a full minute or so left on berserk.

[Fluorescent0]

well just stacking all melee together and making them go till 14 stacks is the simplest way but how many melee would you need for that to be feasible ? 14 seems a bit high to me.. And can you afford to blow major raid cd's during p1 ? like would you need it for p2 ? During windstorm or right after to heal ppl back up cuz everyone will be debuffed etc..

Try looking at my suggestion with rogues. Doing that has all the melees getting 3 stacks tops but rogues. Rogues howeever have, with feint, a 50% damage reduction on the damage done by all aoes, so they're getting much less damage than they should. Resetting t 7 helps them by making them waste less energy on feint + taking less damage.

[Mctriple]

I'd say Council is a little easier. Primordius is about the same as Iron Qon. Just pick one at a time and work on them. Council and Iron Qon have tier!

For phase 1, having ~8 melee/MW monks makes it a bit easier. It's pretty simple to not stack for a while and let him do 1 overload where he AoEs the whole raid. After that, have melee stack and rotate CDs for them until he reaches 25%. You can also have 1 ranged group take some stacks if you don't want to try healing through his raid wide attack for a while, but it's very doable and easier to coordinate this way.

For phase 2, having DPS pop cds asap to burn him down before a 2nd windstorm can be a big help. Really it's the same as normal but people need to be clicked out of clouds quickly and dodge tornadoes properly.

For phase 3, people should save their DPS cds. It's an easy phase, and you want all of your cds for what comes next.

Once you have all of the guardians together, pop lust and every dps CD you have to burn them all down, starting with the one you were just on. If you stop DPS around 27% and wait for a dead zone before pushing him, you can buy even more time to drop him. I think we've gotten him down to 10% before the others are there. Then kill ro'shak asap and clean up the last one, spreading out to drop the lightning. You need to stack up for the final phase, and you can't do that if you have lightning on you.

After that just coordinate defensive raid CDs and finish him off.

[Cirque]

We're currently on Qon Heroic, although we have not touched Council or Primordius yet. Qon is not a really difficult fight, I believe some say it's easier on 10heroic, I wouldn't know though.

From my experience, having done both, they're both the same. 25 means a lot of mechanics mean jack all as always, the flame is way less scary for example. 10 means you have more leeway with the storm phase, having 2 is not a problem at all while I heard that in 25 you kinda want to avoid that (never had 2 on 25, so I can't say if this is true). Iron Qon is actually one of the few fights where I'd say difficulty is equal on both modes (that is to say, rather easy).

Now from what I remember, and my memory is a bit hazy, but we used one melee group. We had 2 melee groups in another week, which worked fine as well, but it was a bit risky if tanks had to move. I can honestly not remember how many stacks melee took, but I believe it to be more than ranged. Furthermore, we started with melee taking as many stacks as possible with some minor raidcooldowns like smokebombs, then ranged taking some stacks, and then melee. Ranged stacks varied wildly, we adapted on every try - if our HP allowed it we took more, if not then we spread earlier. We have ranged group split in 2, one on each side of the room (make sure to spread properly), and the amount of crap on the floor would basically dictate which group would hug up. It's hard to give a good indication on how this should be done as that largely depends on your setup and your individual players' skills in moving when they need to, so best thing I can say here is to try out different things.

As for the lightning debuff - if ranged spread out properly, eventually it will drop on its own accord. Melee will lose it eventually too. It doesn't really matter until the last phase, honestly - it's a huge bonus if you can get rid of it earlier but so much shit can happen that may prevent that. By the time you get to last phase, even if some people still have lightning, the rest of the raid can start stacking. In short: don't worry about it too much. Make your ranged try to lose it fast, so melee's don't get refreshed and you're good. You definitely do not want melee to "run out" at any point, there's enough crap going as it is, and as you mentioned, if you want to make the DPS check before the next storm, you'll need every dps on top of their game (and the boss ).

Any other tips... Well, warlock portals are a huge bonus. Have all your ranged take that shit so they can start dpsing the boss while he's still airborne, it will make or break preventing the second storm. It's not a very complicated fight, but it's the kind of fight where if 1 thing goes wrong, you may as well wipe it. Oh, and I found out you can reset the boss by standing to the back of the room, next to the stairs!

Good luck, sorry I couldn't give more help.