pvp changes in 5.3 will ruin the pvp fun (my opinion)

[Hand Banana]

For the 1000th time:

1) All gear is being scaled to ilvl 496 in bgs/rbgs/arenas and pvp gear will be vastly superior to pve gear in those cases except the possible exception of trinkets BUT blizz has already nerfed most of the trinkets in pvp situations. World pvp, I would argue unless they are straight heroic gear your pvp gear will still be better.

2) You arent handed 496 the second you hit 90, you still have to grind the gear to be playable, you just wont get 1shot while doing it. This along with the gear-catchup is honestly the best changes they have made in a long time. You cant tell me you enjoy deciding to start pvp midway through a season just to realize you will be severely gimped in rated play the whole time.

3) The community has been wanting this for a long ass time. Least from what ive seen.

[melodramocracy]

In my opinion, the changes relating to pvp, which occur in patch 5.3 are a mistake (most of them).
If a player does not understand that he needs to equip for pvp to play pvp, then he is not a player psychologically ready to play pvp.
If a player feels "scared" to fight against other players because his armor is weaker he is not a pvp player.
If a player doesn't understand that pvp is for those who enjoy pvp and he needs to work a bit to get his goals, then he shouldn't start playing pvp.
Pvp is similar entering the military with a lower rank and go climbing until you reach the top. Nobody joins the army as colonel or general, the guy has to deserve the promotion.
What Blizzard is trying to implement (equating pvp and pve gear) can ruin the fun and the feel of promotion that exists in pvp.
In vanilla the pvp was always full of players ... changes were happening, always "to improve gameplay", but what we see is a steady decline. Because of all these changes, today the pvp is boring ... everyone can heal, everyone has similar CCs, classes have lost their identity, which made them unique. Blizzard should do serious research with the existing players to find out what the players want to do ... and not change things based on the egocentric delusions of some developers who probably do not play WOW and do not listen the community.
This is my opinion.

What Blizzard is trying to do is eliminate one of the several artifical crutches that can be used to defeat others. The fewer of these the game has, the better of a pvp game it becomes. Class imbalance is another can of worms on its own, and doesnt need anything added on top of it.

When you play someone in chess, you don't get 2 queens because you've been playing 6 months longer than them, do you?

[Xyanide]

I really don't understand how people find the changes to be bad... I thought every PvPer wanted even playing fields? If you're not playing for the challenge, what the fuck are you playing for? Easy kills on lowly geared characters? Doesn't sound like much fun to me

[Shahad]

OP, while you have a right to your opinion, I feel obligated due to the nature of discussion forums to tell you your opinion is bad and irrelevant. That is all.

[melodramocracy]

I thought every PvPer wanted even playing fields?

Very few of them do. See: ganking.

[Riordrian]

Or because I worked harder in pvp? Just think about it for 1 minute: if all gear will be good for pvp why all gear can not be good for pve too?

well my pvp equipped warrior is doing just fine in ToT lfr (compareable with rnd bgs imo) just need some different gems other tinkets (only insignia and even there are is a crit option iirc) and more hit so whats the problem ?
pvp power and resil are no longer in the item buget (exept for weapon i think?) so you can do fine in some lower pve
and don´t try to argue that i can´t go into heoric content with pvp gear its obvious you cant but you would not take somebody in pve gear into your RBG group or arena team

[Antti]

ou are completely wrong about me. Right now I'm doing pvp with a dk lv 90 with no pvp gear (farming to have it).
What I do not want to miss is the sense of entitlement and be a winner despite the difficulties. Life is not easy, but we won because we persevere ... this feeling is what (in my opinion) will be withdrawn from those who really enjoy the pvp, from the moment when any gear iwill be as good as that designed specifically for pvp. I respect your opinion, I just ask you to respect mine too ... . I'm not a coward and don't want to take advantage of those who have no gear. I just want to have progression in pvp and not just in pve. Otherwise, it would be fair to ask my pvp gear to be as good as the top pve gear ... which obviously also not fair (in my opinion).

The best part of PvP is not what I have bolded (and is, in your opinion).
No one likes the grind (except you).

Why does no one like the grind?
People do not want to be ridden into the ground for several weeks while farming up enough points for half decent gear if they got a late start.
The upcoming patch will make that grind bearable, and with any luck will increase the number of people interested in PvP (because it will be bearable).

[blackblade]

Melee classes weren't invincible while they popped coolies for 5-10 seconds,

Paladins.

pets couldn't solo a player,

Infinite spell pushback and ZG bats.

and offhealing from a hybrid class couldn't keep several people alive.

LoH, Tranquility, (to a lesser extent, innervate) Several other big cooldowns that still exist today.
The only difference is that there are more hybrids overall and fewer people playing warriors (where in TBC/Vanilla, everyone PVP'd as a mace spec rogue/warrior)

There weren't a billion get-out-of-jail-free cards given to every class. The way the game exists now, every class has 1+ silence, 1-2 immunes, offheals/self healing that will get them at least 30-50% hp back or more, and several charge/tele mechanics. That is how they have attempted to balance the playing field. I'd really enjoy if they took all of that away and made it a distinct class based game again.

On one hand CC is not very fun. On the other hand, it's a very necessary evil. I agree that there's too much CC, overall, and it does feel like every class has a basic set of tools (An interrupt, a dispel, a stun, a self-heal, a mobility ability(har har), and so on)

The changes that have taken place (and following suit in 5.3) have just made the game even more casual and pick-up-and-play oriented, which while I agree helps new players get into the game and not get "frustrated," challenges exist in RPG's for a reason. Without barriers or challenges, there is little to no reward in actually doing anything in the end, which is the direction pvp is going.

I don't know that dropping resilience from gear or capping ilvl is going to make it more casual. PVE Raiders aren't going to have an easy time because they're without PVP power. PVP players still have to get over that initial hump. I wouldn't say that these changes push gear out of the equation completely, but instead put a glass ceiling on how big the gap is between pvpers. (intro, honor, conquest, better conquest) while giving PVE players a bit of a lifeline should they try and PVP without PVP gear. The reality is closer that we've moved away from resil and over to PVP power.

[Laphog]

OP, while you have a right to your opinion, I feel obligated due to the nature of discussion forums to tell you your opinion is bad and irrelevant. That is all.

Amen.
IMO: 5.3 changes are the best changes to PvP in a LONG, LONG time.

Except for EXTREMELY rare World PvP situations, people with 496 PvP gear will have incredible advantage over pve players(arena/bg).

[Chestbrah]

Amen.
IMO: 5.3 changes are the best changes to PvP in a LONG, LONG time.

Except for EXTREMELY rare World PvP situations, people with 496 PvP gear will have incredible advantage over pve players(arena/bg).

More of an advantage than they already have right now?

[Osmeric]

I think the changes are good, but I'm concerned that PvE gear will be superior to honor gear, even in PvP instances. If this is the case, there will be little gear motivation for casual PvP.

[Sajek]

Throughout the years, there's always been uproars over changes that are made and when they're implemented and it's usually not as bad as we thought it would be (generally speaking).

If you do Arena's/RBG's to any extent, your experience will not change at all. You will be matched with players that have a combination of skill/gear that will be similar to yours and be a challenge. Considering the changes apply to everyone, not just you.

If you look forward to smacking badly geared people in BG's, you'll be able to do that less but the badly geared people on your team will also not be at such a big disadvantage either so really, is it impacting you all that much? It'll raise your game to stay competitive, as it will mine. It may reduce the absolute (usual) crazy dominance of 5 heavily geared people joining as a premade but is that bad? I'm not convinced but hey, when I do that myself, I'm on vent and we can coordinate (HUGE advantage) but when I'm solo, I might not groan as much when facing a 5 man premade on the other side...I'm geared but at least my poorly geared teammates won't explode like a ripe pimple and we might have more of a real match on our hands. You'll still have an advantage wearing pvp gear.

[Deleted]

OP, while you have a right to your opinion, I feel obligated due to the nature of discussion forums to tell you your opinion is bad and irrelevant. That is all.

Says the guy who doesn't even PvP.

[yurano]

Amen.
IMO: 5.3 changes are the best changes to PvP in a LONG, LONG time.

Except for EXTREMELY rare World PvP situations, people with 496 PvP gear will have incredible advantage over pve players(arena/bg).

The 496 ilvl cap is the stupidest thing ever. The resilience change was fine though.

What they should have done is buffed amount of PvP Power on PvP gear such that 496 PvP > T15 Heroic gear for damage. Of course this will increase damage by quite a bit so the solution is to increase baseline PvP Resilience to 65 or 70%.

This would fix all of the problems without letting PvE players dominate World PvP.

They shouldn't have removed Elite PvP gear though. Their grind system wasn't all that bad.

[Deleted]

PvP is only fun when i fight against players who can't even overcome my Warlock self healing abilities while simultaneously i thrash them for 50% of their HP with every one of my spells.

[Deleted]

PvP is only fun when i fight against players who can't even overcome my Warlock self healing abilities while simultaneously i thrash them for 50% of their HP with every one of my spells.

You should try the level 90 brackets!

[Marco89]

I too find it hard how people reject Blizzard's idea of making PVP more balanced. I'd like to voice the same view as a lot of people have - These changes will make the grind more bearable, make new players in PVP feel they won't be two shot of every thing that moves and contribute more than just fodder. I do find the ilvl cap a poor response to PvE gear/trinkets in BGs - For those who remember the smart nerf of Warrior Colossus Smash (100% effective in PVE, 50% in PVP) the sort of changes were welcomed as it addressed the PVP issue while keeping PVE warriors happy. There are some changes to the power of PVE trinkets to make them less appealing over PVP power trinkets which in time we shall see if the nerf worked.

I've always seen the increase in CC to be a direct response to burst, that is people do not like to be nerfed, they don't like to see a reduction in damage. Chaos bolt ought to be a hard hitter, it's designed to be. My Mage should be able to plough HP when CDs are up with Deep Freeze, and warriors should be a worry when skull banner/Avatar is popped. Now, for those who let classes burst without using CC available speaks more about their competence than the burst. CC which is ineffective (Poly vs Cloak of Shadow or Stuns v IBF) are unfortunate part of the game.

All classes need strengths and weaknesses vs other, however this shouldn't mean total dominance. Blizzard should maintain class balance but the changes to PVP (imo) seem to be a step in the right direction. Time will tell for 5.3 but I think most of the PVP community and new, would be community like these changes. Balance and skill = fun to me, and I think most would agree.

[Kreeshak]

These changes will make the grind more bearable

And will remove the enjoyment of progression for those that are not bothered by the grind.

make new players in PVP feel they won't be two shot of every thing that moves and contribute more than just fodder

Are there any new players out there? I see the population is declining. And do we need to screw veteran players (and their progression) over such a minority as new players?

If you do Arena's/RBG's to any extent, your experience will not change at all.

Progression driven players will have their experience changed.

I really don't understand how people find the changes to be bad... I thought every PvPer wanted even playing fields? If you're not playing for the challenge, what the fuck are you playing for? Easy kills on lowly geared characters? Doesn't sound like much fun to me

Is playing the current fotm class fun? Yet every season you see a few classes dominating the ladders. With the gear gap smaller, you will see even more of these few dominating classes. Most of 3s will mirrors in 5.3 onwards. Fun times!

[Ultima]

For the 1000th time:

1) All gear is being scaled to ilvl 496 in bgs/rbgs/arenas and pvp gear will be vastly superior to pve gear in those cases except the possible exception of trinkets BUT blizz has already nerfed most of the trinkets in pvp situations. World pvp, I would argue unless they are straight heroic gear your pvp gear will still be better.

2) You arent handed 496 the second you hit 90, you still have to grind the gear to be playable, you just wont get 1shot while doing it. This along with the gear-catchup is honestly the best changes they have made in a long time. You cant tell me you enjoy deciding to start pvp midway through a season just to realize you will be severely gimped in rated play the whole time.

3) The community has been wanting this for a long ass time. Least from what ive seen.

Correct. Now post this in the other five threads on the first page featuring complaints without knowledge or research.

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 03:09 PM ----------

And will remove the enjoyment of progression for those that are not bothered by the grind.

What removal of progression? They will raise the iLVL cap each Season to match the iLVL of the new Conquest gear.

Are there any new players out there? I see the population is declining. And do we need to screw veteran players (and their progression) over such a minority as new players?

Yes, there are always new players joining the game. People who were born 14 years ago are starting to play. People who can only now afford to buy a decent computer, gained broadband in their place of living, introduced by a friend, etc. We do not screw over "veteran players" (Hi, by the way). There is no removal of progression other than Elite Gear which was causing more trouble and balancing issues in the long run.

Progression driven players will have their experience changed.

Please explain what this progression is? Progression in PvP is rating and gaining 496 Tyranical gear. Nothing has changed.

Is playing the current fotm class fun? Yet every season you see a few classes dominating the ladders. With the gear gap smaller, you will see even more of these few dominating classes. Most of 3s will mirrors in 5.3 onwards. Fun times!

To be fair, it probably is fun playing FotM class. I've never tried but I don't see why not. With gear no longer being a concern, focus can be shifted to other aspects. The removal of Resilience and reliance put upon PvP Power now allows Blizzard very easy tweaking of the numbers to scale damage up and down.

[Tocha]

Watch this video. A PvP player point of view.

.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCkr0mjcSk