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  1. #1

    Legendary meta for blood tanking

    Our MT is a DK blood tank, currently sitting around 522 and I know he is doing a Mastery/Stamina build. I noticed last night that he has the stam/armor meta gem but not the legendary one. I asked him why he does not have it and he told me that for DK tanks it does not go well. I tried looking up some information in regards to his statement but only found more positive then negative. Can anyone help me out to help with this issue?

    Thank You in advance.

  2. #2
    Well the legendary tank meta is definitely better than the regular one.
    And.... if you're doing 10m he might even want to consider using the DPS one since it it's about 10-20k dps (depending on vengeance levels)

  3. #3
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    20% extra damage reduction with a fairly low ICD?

    That's quite a bit more then 4% extra armour.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    20% extra damage reduction with a fairly low ICD?

    That's quite a bit more then 4% extra armour.
    It only mitigates physical damage, which isn't "bad" but its hardly "good" either.
    I would just run the dps meta, it scales insanely good with vengeance, our bear was getting 800k procs.
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  5. #5
    Deleted
    The normal tank meta only mitigates physical damage too. Other than the stam the legendary meta is a straight up boost and there's no reason not to use it.

    The point of using the dps meta is completely separate and while valid, has nothing to do what the OP was asking.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Damyou View Post
    The normal tank meta only mitigates physical damage too. Other than the stam the legendary meta is a straight up boost and there's no reason not to use it.

    The point of using the dps meta is completely separate and while valid, has nothing to do what the OP was asking.
    Unless the DK the OP was talking about was having trouble living in his current content, he (and the raid) will get far more mileage from the DPS meta than the tank meta.

    If he is survivng now with ~300 stam and 2% armor, going to ~300 stam and random 20% mit procs will very minisculely increase his TDR. Woop-de-do.
    If he is survivng now with ~300 stam and 2% armor, going to ~300 crit and a vengeance scaling free attack will provide ~8-10% more overall damage for him. Maybe more, not sure; its ~12% of my dmg as a haste protpal, so I assume a bit less for a 2H user. Either way, thats ~20k DPS from a meta.

    If he is NOT surviving now, then ofc go with the tank meta, although don't expect miracles from RNG phys-mit procs.
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  7. #7
    I would like to point out that just because you are surviving the content doesn't mean you can't be harder/easier to heal. DPS matters, but it's not your top priority.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Out of curiosity, what's the internal cooldown of the tanking meta ?

  9. #9
    none. it's on the rppm system. I've had it proc while it was already up. It has anywhere from 40-50% uptime.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    none. it's on the rppm system. I've had it proc while it was already up. It has anywhere from 40-50% uptime.
    Sounds quite solid to me...

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheriah View Post
    Sounds quite solid to me...
    Which is why I would suggest it to anyone asking about it. Sure the dps meta is an option but if you have to ask how good the tank version is then chances are you will need it.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    I would like to point out that just because you are surviving the content doesn't mean you can't be harder/easier to heal. DPS matters, but it's not your top priority.
    That may be true for 25-man but for 10-man I would personally say that damage is your top priority, or at least close to. Having tanked heroic Horridon in full crit gear, including DPS gems and enchants, I can say that for the majority of 10-man encounters you should be focusing on damage. An extra 50-100k DPS makes a very large difference. Obviously your number one priority is surviving but you can afford to take a lot more damage to increase your DPS.
    Last edited by mmocc7215da24b; 2013-05-09 at 12:05 AM.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    That may be true for 25-man but for 10-man I would personally say that damage is your top priority, or at least close to. Having tanked heroic Horridon in full crit gear, including DPS gems and enchants, I can say that for the majority of 10-man encounters you should be focusing on damage. An extra 50-100k DPS makes a very large difference. Obviously your number one priority is surviving but you can afford to take a lot more damage to increase your DPS.
    fairly sure haste sims to be higher dps for blood after hit and exp ofc.

    edit: also there are no bosses currently that have a major dps check maybe DA and leishen. so there shouldn't be need to and personally i focus more on surviving and taking least damage as possible over doing max dps ofc its always fun to run in dps gear for a clear or 2 just to get them ranks.
    Last edited by mmoc21768dc9d0; 2013-05-09 at 02:56 AM.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ultimatehawk View Post
    fairly sure haste sims to be higher dps for blood after hit and exp ofc.
    I thought haste wasnt that good for blood with the 20% rune regen from blood presence, also Tanks no 1 prio is survivavility tanks seem to be getting mixed up thinking there just dps that are being hit in the face with vengence. Having said that I think the best thing to do is ask your raids healers if they feel you require the dmg reduction from the tanking meta (or you should prob know yourself if you have tank survivability problems) if there no problems with the dmg intake then take the dps meta.
    The standard meta gem has no use if you have access to the legendary even if using stonestkin rune the armor doesnt stack up to the legendary.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pipastrilo View Post
    I thought haste wasnt that good for blood with the 20% rune regen from blood presence, also Tanks no 1 prio is survivavility tanks seem to be getting mixed up thinking there just dps that are being hit in the face with vengence. Having said that I think the best thing to do is ask your raids healers if they feel you require the dmg reduction from the tanking meta (or you should prob know yourself if you have tank survivability problems) if there no problems with the dmg intake then take the dps meta.
    The standard meta gem has no use if you have access to the legendary even if using stonestkin rune the armor doesnt stack up to the legendary.
    Physical damage doesn't seem to be much of a danger for my dk, running 240% mastery, it's magical damage which is a threat to me. Not saying the tank meta is bad, and it's certainly a ton better than the sta/armor meta, but it's a random proc 20% physical damage reduction, and the odds of it being up for those timed big hits is nowhere near that 50% uptime. Sure if you could time it for example ji-kun 2nd talon rake on hm, it would be pretty awesome.

    I personally run dps meta and fallen crusader, they give me constantly 20~30k more dps. Raiding 25m btw.
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  16. #16
    If you're running 10's go with the DPS meta with the exception of a few fights. Heroic Horridon you might want to use the tank meta. I can't give advice on 25's as that is out of my experience level.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Not really sure why people think so poorly about the tanking meta, it's really quite amazing and in a typical tankswap fight (it seems to have some of the "bad luck protection", so it procs immediately after a tankswap) it'll typically have a 50% uptime while you are tanking, if you aren't tankswapping around 30%. Sure, if you are doing 10 man and got decent gear you can get by using the dps meta on most fights (I am), but for some fights (like horridon or tortos) or 25 man in general it's well worth using it.

    Physical damage doesn't seem to be much of a danger for my dk, running 240% mastery, it's magical damage which is a threat to me.
    What fight in ToT is having scary amounts of magic damage for the tank really? Almost all relevant tank damage in this tier is physical.

    and the odds of it being up for those timed big hits is nowhere near that 50% uptime.
    actually it kinda is a 50% chance of it being up if the uptime is 50%. You can simply base your cd usage on if it's up or not, quite useful.

    I personally run dps meta and fallen crusader, they give me constantly 20~30k more dps. Raiding 25m btw.
    So you are basically taking well over 10% (meta+no SS) additional damage on most fights (around 3% of the raids damage intake, depending on the fight) to ensure that your raid deals less than 1% additional damage (and that's with me assuming that you do ~300k dps on most fights, which I seriously doubt).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Not really sure why people think so poorly about the tanking meta, it's really quite amazing and in a typical tankswap fight (it seems to have some of the "bad luck protection", so it procs immediately after a tankswap) it'll typically have a 50% uptime while you are tanking, if you aren't tankswapping around 30%. Sure, if you are doing 10 man and got decent gear you can get by using the dps meta on most fights (I am), but for some fights (like horridon or tortos) or 25 man in general it's well worth using it.



    What fight in ToT is having scary amounts of magic damage for the tank really? Almost all relevant tank damage in this tier is physical.



    actually it kinda is a 50% chance of it being up if the uptime is 50%. You can simply base your cd usage on if it's up or not, quite useful.



    So you are basically taking well over 10% (meta+no SS) additional damage on most fights (around 3% of the raids damage intake, depending on the fight) to ensure that your raid deals less than 1% additional damage (and that's with me assuming that you do ~300k dps on most fights, which I seriously doubt).
    Magaera25HM breaths hurt..alot. We don't kill green (so 100% attack speed) and it's still easier than the red head as it's physical damage increase compared to stacking ticking fire DoT.
    The only dangerous physical hit I have seen so far is Jikuns 2nd talon rake - which isn't that hard as you can build up blood shield during quills - and Horridon after some stacks. Horridon is the one fight I would use the tank meta on, as it's 100% physical damage and quite bursty.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    Magaera25HM breaths hurt..alot. We don't kill green (so 100% attack speed) and it's still easier than the red head as it's physical damage increase compared to stacking ticking fire DoT.
    The only dangerous physical hit I have seen so far is Jikuns 2nd talon rake - which isn't that hard as you can build up blood shield during quills - and Horridon after some stacks. Horridon is the one fight I would use the tank meta on, as it's 100% physical damage and quite bursty.
    Do you have logs? Something isn't right if the green head isn't the primary threat to the tanks. Are you guys getting 4 breaths?

  20. #20
    3 stacks of the fire debuff are already extremely painful even on 10H. Don't know about 25H but the green head's auto attacks seem fairly managable compared to that. (and tbh. I feel like even the green breath is more dangerous)

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