Most high skill - high reward dps class atm?

[Akraen]

Well like I said, I am not trying to say that it is hard evidence. Just pointed out what the logs say the difference are in dps output between top 25% and top 1% of each class.

A full list from high to low.

Demonology Warlock
Feral Druid
Combat Rogue
Destruction Warlock
Fire Mage
Windwalker Monk
Balance Druid
Elemental Shaman
Fury Warrior
Shadow Priest
Affliction Warlock
Retribution Paladin
Assassination Rogue
Unholy Death Knight
Frost Mage
Arms Warrior
Survival Hunter
Enhancement Shaman
Frost Death Knight
Beastmaster Hunter

Still, not it is not a good evidence. Rather a guideline.

Arrrrrrcane mage!

[schmearcampain]

Wow you must not have understood OP's question at all. It was completely valid, you didn't have to invent ur own just to give an answer. Start a new thread for that.

Relax guy, it was a joke. hence the smiley face.

[Volitar]

Max theoretical damage = Warlock
Hardest Rotation = Sub Rogue, Feral Druid and maybe (JUST MAYBE) Boomkin/ShadowPriest

[Deleted]

Arrrrrrcane mage!

As only 4% of mages~ play arcane the logs are not that accurate measure. Same goes for sub rogue and MM hunter.

[Rife]

Anyone in here who says Warlock has probably never played one in MoP.

Destro rewards skilled play but the ceiling on that skill-cap is abysmally low.

Affliction and Demo CAN pull very nice numbers and CAN reward skilled play but it is 100% reliant on good RNG. No matter how well you play, your DPS is going to suck major balls if you get procs at bad times. That also means that good procs means amazing DPS even if you fuck up a few times. Skilled play is an important factor but it's not even close to the importance of good RNG.

The biggest problem with Affliction in particular is that you're almost never going to have 6/6 (or 7/7 or however many RNG procs you have from trinkets/enchants/meta) of your procs go off together. Most of the time you'll proc 4/6 or 5/6 and you do the best you can with those procs. You have no way of knowing if the 3/6 you just procced is going to be the best combination of procs you'll have in the next 10 seconds or the next 2 minutes. So you make a judgement call when you proc 4/6 or 5/6 and you consume your RNG resource to maximize your damage during that proc window by dotting where optimal and by keeping as high a haunt up-time as you can manage.
But 10 seconds later you get that 6/6 proc which is your Lei Shens trinket or some other powerful proc and all of a sudden you're better off redotting and using haunts with those procs but you've already used 2 or maybe 3 shards and you didn't RNG proc any more so you do your best with the shards you have left but you know that your DPS isn't going to be anywhere near as strong as it could of been, because you're going to be missing 16-24 seconds of significantly more DPS because you're lacking haunt.

So pretty much every few seconds as Afflic you're gambling on proccing better procs in a few seconds than you have now or that your next good proc window is going to wind up hitting a minute or so apart for the whole fight so you have time to bank shards accordingly, or you're praying to RNGesus that you happen to proc 6 shards in 15 seconds exactly when you need them. Either way you're never going to be doing the best DPS you could possibly be doing because you can't see into the future.

RPPM trinkets have roughly 3 possible outcomes over the course of an encounter:
1. Time between RPPM procs is roughly average and are fairly evenly spaced out, perhaps 2 minutes apart.
2. Time between RPPM procs is less than average and sometimes even back to back.
3. Time between RPPM procs is greater than average and often more than 2 minutes between procs.

Affliction can only benefit from 2/3 of those outcomes. When RPPM trinkets/meta procs back to back, affliction gains very little compared to if those procced farther apart because we need to bank shards between proc windows to make full use of the windows.

If I proc my trinkets at 0:01 and then again at 2:00 I'll be able to re-dot with SB:SS and Haunt 3 times during each proc window for a nice 24 seconds of Haunt up-time which would be 100% uptime during my trinket 20sec proc windows.
If I proc my trinkets at 0:01 and then again at 0:40 I'll be able to re-dot with SB:SS and Haunt probably once or twice depending on whether or not I RNG'd shards back with my 5% proc chance. My haunt up-time in this case might be only 16 seconds or 8 seconds. Or maybe I SB:SS'd 10 seconds before my second proc window to dot the add, or had to save a shard to slow turtles, or had to run out to drop lightning, or me second proc window hit when the 2nd magaera head was already on 10% so my powerful dots are useless, etc, etc.

I've found that my DPS has little to do with my performance as a player once I got to the point where I knew what I was doing. Knowing what you're doing as an affliction lock mostly boils down to; know the fight, know when to overwrite dots, know when to use haunt, spam MG the rest of the time, have 100% dot up-time. Consider that 'when to dot' and 'when to use haunt' are dictated by RNG in more ways that one and you'll understand why I say that RNG and luck plays a much larger factor in DPS output than player skill.

The above applies for Demo too, except that Lei Shens trinket and 4pce is mandatory if you're expecting Demo to live up to the hype and that you need Lei Shens procs at opportune times. Then replace haunt up-time with time spent in meta and it becomes apparent why both specs are in the same RNG boat. Demo can be a slight exception on a select few fights though. If you have UVLS and you're doing a fight like council then 1 good openeing proc window can set you up for the whole fight because of 100% crit doom feeding you enough demonic power through imps that you can stay in meta for most of the fight and ignore the RNG aspects of metadancing.

There are a few fights where affliction locks with lei shens can ignore encounter mechanics and abuse an unintended oversight though to push insane numbers like 590k on Magaera though. But once that is fixed you can expect affliction DPS to drop back down to normal levels on council, horridon, magaera and pretty much any multi-dotting fight. I'm guessing gimmick DPS isn't what you're after though.

[Dysheki]

-Insert class here- CAN pull very nice numbers and CAN reward skilled play but it is 100% reliant on good RNG. No matter how well you play, your DPS is going to suck major balls if you get procs at bad times. That also means that good procs means amazing DPS even if you fuck up a few times. Skilled play is an important factor but it's not even close to the importance of good RNG.

Fixed.

In other words: Everyone can do decent dps. Everyone can be proc reliant. Everyone has a certain fight or role they excel in. /yawn

You completely missed the mark of the OP. (imo every class can be easy to play, hard to master)

[Deleted]

At first I was going to say fire mage, I have no idea how you're meant to get good combustions without an addon but with an add on its pretty easy. I'd say affliction warlock.

[Rife]

Fixed.

In other words: Everyone can do decent dps. Everyone can be proc reliant. Everyone has a certain fight or role they excel in. /yawn

You completely missed the mark of the OP. (imo every class can be easy to play, hard to master)

Every class is proc reliant and has RNG, sure. But nothing I've seen comes close to the variation that affliction can see. Most classes show variations from proccing 31 lava surges rather than 25 or something like that. It's RNG but it only accounts for 1-2% DPS variance.

Afflictions RNG from haunt alone is about 30% of your overall damage. It is also doubly affected by how powerful your current dots are which is more RNG. I can literally double my DPS with 1 trinket proc. Can any other class do that?

My DPS can fluctuate by over 100% on some fights while doing the same thing from attempt to attempt. That is insane. It gets even crazier on fights with damage modifiers where 1 single proc lining up with a pool or not is the difference between first and last on the DPS meters.

I've also had fights where I've had no trinkets proc for the first 1:53 of a fight. At that point there is nothing you can do to make up for it; it's just going to be a shit pull and regardless of what you do at that point, your DPS is going to suck.

I'm not saying locks are bad. I'm saying they depend more on luck and RNG than player skill if you want to push great numbers. I don't see how that is up for debate to anyone who has taken even a cursory look at how affliction does damage, the haunt tooltip and the nature of pandemic.

The OP asked for a class that rewards excellent play, affliction and demo warlocks simply don't. They reward mediocre play and excellent play the same as long as RNGesus is with you.

[Mazda]

The OP asked for a class that rewards excellent play, affliction and demo warlocks simply don't. They reward mediocre play and excellent play the same as long as RNGesus is with you.

Maybe for affliction you're correct (and even then, it's a bit exaggerated), but demonology isn't based on RNG at all. The only RNG is UVLS (which, even then, has a skill component). And that WILL proc eventually. The skill from demo comes from knowing when to be in meta, when and when not to cast SF in meta, HoG weaving (obviously), if you run sac then twist your felguard's felstorm, oh there are now 3 targets around me while in meta? use immo instead of single target SF, oh it's a council fight? need to ToC micro my corruptions on all targets for 99% uptime on each, and PLANNING your abilities at least 30 seconds ahead of when you need to use them (*cough* felstorm + DS not lining up). I could go on and on about certain subtle complexities for Demo, but it would get tedious. Once you REALLY start to play it, then you realize how much you have to learn. To say that demo is based on RNG means that you aren't playing it correctly. Additionally, demo has the most utility of all 3 lock specs, so maxing dps while being asked to perform utility raises the skillcap in a similar manner to a hybrid dps/healer. Not to mention lol1secGCDlol.

I dropped Aff/Destro for Demo/Destro because Demonology rewards high skill with high dps. Add that to the fact that demo is extremely under-appreciated in 10 man, and it makes it very rewarding to do well.

[SirReal]

Nah, he was equally geared to our rogues and he was doing more than them, he did as much as me(warlock) or our DK who usually top meters. I think feral dps is extremely underrated and propably least played of all specs/classes.

without being an asshole ima say ur rogues are/were under performing. my 2 cents.

[Deleted]

without being an asshole ima say ur rogues are/were under performing. my 2 cents.

Well how can they be? When our DK was getting like top5 rankings in WoL 25m HC and the druid was on par with the DPS with him, and DK is propably best single target DPS class. The feral kitten druid had many top3 rankings when we progressed/farmed T14. Maybe rogues scale better with good gear, i dunno, but i know he was doing good DPS and feral kittens are extremely rare sight.

[Deleted]

Well how can they be? When our DK was getting like top5 rankings in WoL 25m HC and the druid was on par with the DPS with him, and DK is propably best single target DPS class. The feral kitten druid had many top3 rankings when we progressed/farmed T14. Maybe rogues scale better with good gear, i dunno, but i know he was doing good DPS and feral kittens are extremely rare sight.

were your rogues getting top5 ranks as well because thats what hes asking you essentially. if your guild ranks high (although rather few competitors for your feral exist) but your rogues dont, they are underperforming be it due to personal skill or gear.

I think some people here as missing the point of the question, but probably hunters/ locks *maybe* feral druids.

idk if serious. even if performed mich better than your other raiders hunters are only middle of the pack (unless those other raiders are extremely poor ofc). fortunately they usually have a slight gear advantage in progression.

[Warbrokyn]

I've played several different DPS classes this tier, and done at least LFR on most, and raiding main on a lot of them through normal and heroics.

I have to say that Warlocks (Affliction) specifically is the most rewarding if played properly, but seem average at best if played sub-par. While their alternate specs (Destro/Demo) are much more forgiving if you aren't performing 100%. Mashing buttons and keeping track of several dots/procs/buffs vs mashing buttons checking a few procs/buffs.

[Pacab]

Well how can they be? When our DK was getting like top5 rankings in WoL 25m HC and the druid was on par with the DPS with him, and DK is propably best single target DPS class. The feral kitten druid had many top3 rankings when we progressed/farmed T14. Maybe rogues scale better with good gear, i dunno, but i know he was doing good DPS and feral kittens are extremely rare sight.

T14 was great for Feral, as is every expansion early on because of their abysmal scaling compared to most other classes. They definitely were worth a slot if you could find a very good one but in T15 not so much, they only thing they bring is somebody to use the agi staves that nobody else will use and to increase the demand on Vanq tokens in a raiding environment where most guilds run a roster that consists of majority Vanq users.

[Bryntrollian]

The term for this is skillcap

[Akraen]

As only 4% of mages~ play arcane the logs are not that accurate measure. Same goes for sub rogue and MM hunter.

Yet unlike MM and Sub, it's potentially the highest DPS spec (apart from Afflock cheesing).

And that's more or less my point. The reason only 4% of mage parses are arcane is because it is damn near impossible to maximize your DPS as arcane unless you get your raid to adjust around you or you happen to never be picked for any random mechanic stuffs. You can get lucky and if you're possibly a psychic you can anticipate minor movement, some of the time.

Devs need to recognize the impossibility of the arcane spec and either rethink encounter design or rethink how movement plays a role in DPS.

[NeverStop]

Arcane is good enough on Ra-den.

[Deleted]

Wot about Rets? Yu have to do your DPS Rotation while at the same time preparing for incoming Raid Damage and place your defensive Raid CD Spell accrdingly. Not only that, but you have to watch out for people dropping low to cast Lay on Hand on them all the time some dangerois Damage is incoming, whic his I would imagine almost all the time on Hardmodes.
I don't play a Ret but doing what DPS do and watching all Raid Members' HP at the same time seems to be pretty Skill challenging.

If you see that as skill cap, then you might want to go with a feral druid in stead. The dps rotation is challenging AND they have to watch out for stuff like that, as they have free heals to give. Also using devotion aura is not something the ret himself has to worry about, that is done by the raid leader!

[Purpleisbetter]

Dotter specs can be trivialized with Affdots for lock/boomies/spriest.

You just need to react to the green light, its not hard, not hard at all. Its clunky with Wooshulay or the UVLS but not hard, that's sure.

WW monks with RoRo trinket if u want something not so RNG, rewarding and totally akward: chi banking while energy starved must feel good <3

[Deleted]

Dotter specs can be trivialized with Affdots for lock/boomies/spriest.

You just need to react to the green light, its not hard, not hard at all. Its clunky with Wooshulay or the UVLS but not hard, that's sure.

WW monks with RoRo trinket if u want something not so RNG, rewarding and totally akward: chi banking while energy starved must feel good <3

Dunno about others, but i don't really watch colors from affdots and the addon itself is not that helpful. For me it's just fun to watch your dot power compared to your dots now if you were to refresh them. I watch my procs and generally know my current dot powers, sure if you are "beginner" or "not so good player" it might take brains out of dotting and just react to affdot colors without understanding dotting on more deep level. And what i mean by "deep level" is that there are lot of micro decisions should you refresh your dots or not and how should you refresh them.