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  1. #121
    I'm with all of the people who said any flavor of DPS spec Druid. I've played most classes, and they are the class I've found that in order to play at the peak level, you have to manage about 20 more things than the next class. You pull them off? You pull amazing numbers. You miss one refresh of dots, or are a second late on your Savage Roar? Bottom of the meters. Also. Warlocks.

  2. #122
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    but the perfect execution of the rotation would be the micro for me both have in common. as the tanks rotation is (was) rather blunt and unimportant ild call its impact and skillcap rather low. whereas as a dps always gains more of perfect execution as hes in a direct comparison with his classmates/wol.
    tldr: if you learned your tanking macro, youre pretty much settled as a tank. if you are a dps, improve steadily or you lose your raidspot.
    if that's how you few tanking, then your not min/maxing so in turn your not reaching the potential of your tanking class. i could go out and only keep up shuffle and cycle my cd's as needed, and live just fine hoping the dps will meet the enrage timers, or the burst aoe, whatever and do 90k dps, or i could do all those things while watching all my timers making sure not to push back KS, not waiting on energy, not letting my energy saturate much if ever, choosing between offensives and defensive's with my chi, take a more dps oriented talent then a tanking one because i know i could be doing more to help the raid then just standing there and holding the boss in place, so now i do 150k dps

  3. #123
    Deleted
    Not to mention, atleast as a paladin tank, watching the boss swing timer is vital. Timing in your SotR as close to a boss swing timer as possible to get maximum coverage.

    DPSers dont really need to track boss swing timer and a miss timed spell could be equal to raid wipe.

  4. #124
    Feral Druids and affliction locks are probably at the tougher end cos of the micro management but when done right put out big numbers. On the other hand destruction is one of the easier specs to play and still puts out big damage.

  5. #125
    It really depends on how big of a difference you'd want. Personally I play a moonkin. We perform well on most bosses & we're range (HIGH FIVE). However, Moonkin isn't the hardest class to maximise (might be on top 5, not quite sure), but I think It's one of the most complex classes to learn. Basicly if you're a good player that have played dot classes or just range class such as Mage/Spriest/Lock then learning it should be simple. If you're talking about the difference between a player doing a normal "Lunar DOT DOT STARFIRE ---> Solar DOT DOT wrath" rotation then the difference is huge.

    I would think that feral is the best answer to your question though. The DPS difference between a DoC player & a HOTW player is huge. On a fight such as horridon (a fight that includes a lot of adds dying) then affli might become harder as the haunt management will be very different from a normal single-target fight.
    My personal opinion.

  6. #126
    Hotw feral and doc feral is roughly 5% difference. And that's assuming perfect play of doc which is imo pretty difficult to pull off. A matter of opinion but I wouldn't consider a less than 5% delta as "huge". Also you bring another raid cd with hotw/tranq.

  7. #127
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    I think Demo fits the bill more than Affliction, especially with the ULVS Dooms right now. If I play Demo perfectly on Council, I'm at 400k two minutes in, but if I mess up, it's like half that. Demo doesn't get the luxury of starting with full resources, and fury requires a little more finesse to manage than shards.

    Personally I don't think Aff is all that hard to play very well, even on a fight like Horridon, but I've yet to rank on 10heroic Horridon as Aff yet (236k last week), so what do I know. Lots of adds dying is something we Locks love though. Moar Shards.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Wot about MM Hunters? They have high Focus regeneration from bonus Haste, having to cast a Focus-gaining Ability two times, and from sometimes casting Focus-free Shots, thus being left behind with a narrow Timeframe to dump their focus for their Abilities so I believe that MM Hunters have a high Skill cap.
    The only problem is high Reward because even playing MM Hunter in a very skillfull way does not yield competetive DPS.
    MM hunter isn't really that difficult and at the same time the reward for executing flawlessly is about the same as a bad warlocks DPS.

  9. #129
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    Don't just say "warlocks" cus Destro is fucking faceroll, time your CB's with procs. EZ.
    Though i must say, feral is annoying as fuck..
    - Moonkin is hard as you say, but as a dot class, Aff locks are alot harder than moonkins.
    As previous stated, runes are hard too, so i must say DK's (frost is bit easy though) and Affliction.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    Classes with energy, rage, focus, runes/rp whatever you want to call it, classes that doesn't use mana.
    and what about specs that use Mana AND another resource? I.e Demo Locks Mana and Fury or Boomkins with mana and luner/solar power?
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  11. #131
    Any class that requires you to take advantage of snapshotting during trinkets for your damage over time abilities. This is why you keep seeing feral, warlocks, and boomkins mentioned. As someone to tell you the rotation for any of the above with their tier 15 trinkets and their struggle to explain to you because its not easy to tell you that sometimes you do things and other times you don't. Boomkins have a retardedly easy rotation UNTIL you add in a 30% haste meta gem, a 100% crit trinket, and a trinket with stacking int. Or any of the other trinket combinations that are viable.

    It all depends why you are asking the question though. Are you looking for people to see how skillful you are? And guarantee that raid spot for yourself? Then don't play DPS. People can easily be "good enough" at dps and make the raid. If you want to stand out you should consider becoming a healer or tank that really understands how your class stands out. Alternately, be a dps player with multiple geared toons, and a high knowledge of which fights your toons are advantageous on.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Incrediblade View Post
    Any class that requires you to take advantage of snapshotting during trinkets for your damage over time abilities. This is why you keep seeing feral, warlocks, and boomkins mentioned. As someone to tell you the rotation for any of the above with their tier 15 trinkets and their struggle to explain to you because its not easy to tell you that sometimes you do things and other times you don't. Boomkins have a retardedly easy rotation UNTIL you add in a 30% haste meta gem, a 100% crit trinket, and a trinket with stacking int. Or any of the other trinket combinations that are viable.
    I think this is definitely something, although personally I never found snapshot stats too much extra difficulty. I certainly wish they'd bring them back fully for everyone though as it makes things a lot more interesting as one of the classes who now scales.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Assassination Rogue

    There's a huge difference between one who mashes buttons and one who plans out their rotation 10+ seconds into the future.
    lolwut assassin is prob the one of the easiest specs in the game atm..Sure you have to plan ahead but its very easy to plan ahead a 3 button rotation

  14. #134
    Mechagnome Layuth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankz0 View Post
    What about the different resources? Which one do you guys think is most forgiving and most punishing when handeled wrong or right? Energy, rage or mana?
    Most Punishing = Eclipse Bar
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  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layuth View Post
    Most Punishing = Eclipse Bar
    Oh please...

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well like I said, I am not trying to say that it is hard evidence. Just pointed out what the logs say the difference are in dps output between top 25% and top 1% of each class.

    A full list from high to low.

    Demonology Warlock
    Feral Druid
    Combat Rogue
    Destruction Warlock
    Fire Mage
    Windwalker Monk
    Balance Druid
    Elemental Shaman
    Fury Warrior
    Shadow Priest
    Affliction Warlock
    Retribution Paladin
    Assassination Rogue
    Unholy Death Knight
    Frost Mage
    Arms Warrior
    Survival Hunter
    Enhancement Shaman
    Frost Death Knight
    Beastmaster Hunter

    Still, not it is not a good evidence. Rather a guideline.
    Too bad not every class scale the same with gear...

  17. #137
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by schleimhaut View Post
    Too bad not every class scale the same with gear...
    Yes that is of course the other issue which is why I said
    'Still, it is not a good evidence'

  18. #138
    - Active mitigation tanks (Monk, DK)
    - Healers with big toolkits and/or healing-through-damage capabilities (Priest, Monk)
    - Pure DPS classes (Rogue, Mage, Warlock, Hunter)

    Those are, generally, and currently as well I think, the classes with a slightly higher skill cap than most other classes, but also very rewarding if played right.

  19. #139
    Deleted
    I would definitely say warlocks. The warlock as a class got revamped in MoP so hard and it has become such a complex class in terms of everything. Just think of the viable talent choices (pet vs no pet), all the different resource types they have on different specs (soul shard, demonic fury, burning ember), not to mention that all the 3 specs are fairly viable (as far as I know demonology is nearly as good as affliction in high-end gear, not to mention that destruction is already a must for some fights). Playing skillfully, seizing the opportunities, feeling the class, and using all that the class got is far more rewarding of when it comes to fun (enjoying the character you are playing with) and to performance (warlock dps is quite nice if played properly) in this expansion. I would say that this is how a class should look like in 2013 and not as retarded as mage, for example. I've been playing with mage since the beginning of Wow, and I do feel that mage as a class is nowhere near in terms of complexity or possibilities as locks. The state of the mage class feels pretty much the same as it was 2 expansions before, there's basically nothing new to it. Mages would desperately need a pet (on all specs) to make things a bit more interesting, or at least a resource system which would bring the need for some brain to the class instead of hoping for crits. The only talent that makes mage specs somewhat different to play (apart from the lvl 90 talents among which Invocation is the only viable for pve) is the Bomb tier. I am fairly disappointed because if blizzard could revamp locks this good, why didn't they try to export just a fragment of locks' complexity, variety and awesomeness to the mage class?

  20. #140
    Arms today is WAAAAYYYY easier than it used to be. However, you can fuck up or curb dps pretty significantly if you heroic strike without enough rage.

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