How would you like to handle the "gap" between LFR and Normal raiding?

[Mormolyce]

Yeah, it is fine the way it is. If they made a different difficulty mode to suit absolutely everyone the game would have 100 difficulty settings and it'd take them 3 years to release a raid.

Normals really, really aren't that hard. Might be a culture shock moving from LFR where you can steamroll things without any organisation or teamwork, but the only way to change that is to remove organisation and teamwork from normals which is absurd because that's the whole point of organised raiding.

I would be okay with LFR getting harder though. Am I the only person who really enjoys taking on Lei Shen every week? Highlight of my LFR!

---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 02:29 AM ----------

Should be LFR and a Normal mode, that's it. And normal mode should be half puggable and eventually have increasing debuffs. I really don't think there's a good market for hardcore players anymore. If there are any hardmodes I think it should be like Ulduar where you do the encounter differently.

I think all those heroic mode guilds that clear NM the first week they're released every single tier would disagree with you. It may be a small market but it's a passionate one.

[Thirtyrock]

If they make 10 man easier and lower ilvl like Wrath raids I'll quit raiding. I don't want to be in a 25 at the moment, since most of my friends can't/won't go to one. It's also hard for a tank to find a raid spot in guilds that are decent, as they are decent, in part, because they have stable tanks.

If they made normal modes overall easier I'd quit raiding, because it wouldn't be fun for me.

An increasing debuff lets me and my guild go through it at our pace, we get stuck and it will eventually get easier for us to get through. Hence my vote for this option.

I don't see an opening for a 4th raid difficulty, who would run it? would it share lockouts with normal? Would it be an upgraded form of LFR? Would it drop loot. I don't like this idea, but I doubt it would make me quit raiding; if my guild decided to run the easy mode instead of normals it might.

[Socialhealer]

Should be LFR and a Normal mode, that's it. And normal mode should be half puggable and eventually have increasing debuffs. I really don't think there's a good market for hardcore players anymore. If there are any hardmodes I think it should be like Ulduar where you do the encounter differently.

no thx captain casual.

[Eggers]

Why is there not an option for leave the game the way it is? This is totally bias IMO... This poll is worthless as those of us who don't agree that people who can't clear normal should be babied anymore are not getting any voice.

[jbombard]

Why is the gap an issue?

If Normal is too easy or too hard, that has nothing to do with LFR?

Seriously what is the problem you are trying to solve?

The biggest problem with LFR is queues spread out across too many raid wings pushing up queue times. What they need is catch up dungeons, that way the majority of your players are queing for the same raids(the latest) thus keeping queue times down. The current system just makes the situation worse and worse everytime more raid wings get added.

[Bombercloner]

I haven't read through the responses that other people have given but I think that I have an idea that might work.

Have 25m Normal and Heroic on one lockout
have 10m and lfr on one lockout similar to how lfr is now. Basically you can do 10m or lfr as much as you want, but the gear that drops is lfr hear and it only drops on the first kill (And they drop the same gear and the 10m is tuned slightly harder than lfr and slighly easier than 25m normal, about halfway in the middle)

There is no more hardcore 10m raiding scene (I know some people will dislike this but, eh, its my opinion <3)

This will allow for the lfr guys to step into 10m for fairly easily so that they can hone their skills as "real raiders" as opposed to "lfr raiders."

This would also allow the 25m normal mode raiders to choose to do 10m or 25 lfr because lets face it. It is going to be hard to convince hardcore raiders that lfr isn't mandatory, because of trinkets, tier, etc.

Ultimately there would be 4 difficulties (25NHC, 25HC, 10m, and 25lfr) this would allow for slighlty less work to go into each tier, and people would stop arguing about 10 vs. 25.

The only thing I really dislike about this idea is that hardcore 10m guilds would a) be forced to break up and have the members join 25m guilds b) become significantly more casual c) combine with other 10m hardcore guilds to form a super guild with likely awful leadership conflicts or d) just quit the game.

but seeing as how this a thread on how to shrink the gap from lfr to normal I think that would work. Main reason I like it is because it would allow me to not have to do lfr ^.^

[Deleted]

blizzard lost 1.3 million subs

Why do people always bring up this argument? Of fucking course they're losing subs. It's an old game. It's bound to happen when you run with outdated grahpics etc. It'll probably never be fixxed.

T: I can't really see the gap...
But, I say. Ramp the difficulty on RF up. Hell.. Even ToT RF Was amazing the first 2 - 3 weeks. Because noone knew what they were doing and people actually had to THINK to come up with tactics (Or just follow the big yellow text in the middle of the screen). But nontheless. It was actually FUN. Nowadays I really can't be arsed to RUN RF since
1: The queues are too long
2: Almost never gets loot (Bad luck, Yep. That's me)
3: It's boring. Since people don't even talk in there now.

EDIT: Didn't vote btw. None of the answers felt right.

[Deleted]

Just nerf normal modes. With the normal difficulty of ToT or DS we'd clear it in the first week anyways

[Deleted]

I don't get why heroic isn't just unlocked right away for people who want to do it anyway - normal isn't meant for them. Top guilds already have a knowledge of the fight from PTR anyway. Personally I like the normal difficulty, I just don't like mechanics that allow one player to wipe nine other people and waste a try.

[Pua]

Tuning raids for "speciel needs" would destroy raiding. Normal mode are EASY. If you can't handle them stick to LFR, it's created for people like you.

I've been on these forums for a while, and that's potentially the most arrogant comment I've ever come across. You're judging someone (me, in this case) whom you don't know, have never seen play, and have no basis to judge his ability on. Luckily, we can remedy this; my signature gives you the option to figure out who you're talking to so, before coming back with more elitist twaddle, take a look through my details.

Firstly:

Nobody is talking about "tuning raids for special needs" (I fixed your spelling, by the way - no need to thank me). The issue is that normal raids are statistically too difficult for players approaching raiding as beginners, and the WoW Progress numbers insinuate this very, very heavily. It's not rocket science. You may say that a progress raider should enjoy the hard work and wipes, but new players will not enjoy it - particularly on normal mode encounters where they may play perfectly, and it only takes one person to wipe them.

Part of the problem with normal mode raiding, particularly for newcomers, is the time investment involved. A "casual" player is one whose playtime is limited, commonly it's completely divorced from a person's ability to play. In order for them to beat the gearing hump, they're forced into a thankless LFR farm, dailies and valor grinding. To learn an encounter, a commitment to outside sources will be required so that encounters can be studied before pulled; good luck figuring out Dark Animus with only the Dungeon Journal to help you. Now, you've already proven that you lack any semblance of an understanding of other people, so I'll make this clear:

The current raiding model is pricing casuals out entirely, because it's demanding a time investment many can't hope to meet. The "gap" discussed has as much to do with time as it does with skill. Potentially more so.

Secondly:

You're utterly ignoring the individuals who simply want to play with their friends and enjoy a bit of progression on their own terms - these are the players that were brought in and given the best content during Wrath of the Lich King, but have since been utterly ignored by Blizzard because Cataclysm heralded the developers decision to listen to people like you. Except, your own argument is self contradictory and you don't see why. You said "normals are easy", an implication that you burned through them in no time and started work on heroic modes. Is that a fair assumption? In which case, let me ask you this:

Why are you so bothered about "easy" content being made more accessible for other people?

Heroic modes are there for the committed and dedicated players, and LFR is there for those who can't (or choose not to) commit to a set raiding schedule. The ultra-casual and the ultra-committed have their areas for raiding. So who does normal mode serve? Currently, it's hammering the people it's supposedly aimed at, something that's statistically proven by the way, so we can safely say that IT'S TOO HARD.

Thirdly:

Let's forget your rambling comment and stick a pin in the fact that it was a snowflake comment designed to look impressive to those who lack the capability to think for themselves. It's fine, there are plenty of you.

Let's instead concentrate on what could be described as the "recruitment churn". Recently, two very well-known American guilds tried to band together for progression and have since called it a day. Prior to the launch of MoP, the best progression guild in the world (our Finnish chums) called time on 25-man progression due to a lack of recruits that fitted their own criteria. Hell, many top progression guilds are now closing the doors on recruiting tanks because the recruits they're getting just aren't up to it. The problem here is that the players YOU presumably want in YOUR guild are barely getting out of the gates because the raiding model isn't helping them to learn the game, or properly develop as players. The way it used to work saw a casual player enjoy his 10-man content, find he was one of the better players in his guild, and then look to join a 25-man guild. If he then wanted to make the bigger commitment, he could look for server leading guilds and apply for consideration if they had a spot available.

That individual had probably hit the big ding, done some heroics to gear up, learned to ply his trade in the relatively forgiving environment of 10-man content, then made the step up if he had the time and ability to do so.

Alas, that curve is now entirely broken. Players going into LFR don't learn anything because you can literally AFK your way through an encounter. If that player then wants to step up, being relatively new to the game, he's likely to get utterly smashed when he attempts this difficulty of normal mode, and will probably be vilified by the likes of you. Because only masochists, idiots and children put up with that type of scorn from prepubescent tough guys on the Internet, decent people find better things to do with their time and depart. This takes more potential emerging talent out of the raiding pool and makes the top guilds have less capable players from which to draw from.

TL, DR?

You haven't a clue what you're talking about, your argument is nothing more than a baby spitting its dummy out because someone else has a toy, and you don't even realise that your opinion is hurting your own guild.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Nobleshield]

Why is there not an option for leave the game the way it is? This is totally bias IMO... This poll is worthless as those of us who don't agree that people who can't clear normal should be babied anymore are not getting any voice.

Because it's not fine the way it is. This isn't Fox News; repeating a lie over and over again and having other people with agendas validating that lie won't make it true.

[smokii]

in a perfect world, raids would be 1 difficulty (imo) with a blanket 10% nerf to LFR and determination adding 5% every wipe.

in a 12 boss raid, it'd be split into 4 separate LFR queues, each progressively harder than the last (so every 3 bosses there is a step up in difficulty).

additional activated "ulduar style" hardmodes on bosses where it felt appropriate to add a hardmode (so not forcing every boss to have hardmode).

separate 10 and 25 man raids - not lockouts, raids, like tier 4. none of this 1 size fits all bollocks which just leads to fighting over which is more difficult. if you dont have a 25 man guild, do it in LFR or god forbid, work with other guilds on your realm (promoting realm communities), but also...

add 10 man raids to LFR

add a separate queue to LFR with activated hardmodes enabled, but require a minor attunement (killing last boss in normal LFR) 10% nerf and determination buff turned off.

[Pua]

in a perfect world, raids would be 1 difficulty (imo) with a blanket 10% nerf to LFR and determination adding 5% every wipe.

in a 12 boss raid, it'd be split into 4 separate LFR queues, each progressively harder than the last (so every 3 bosses there is a step up in difficulty).

additional activated "ulduar style" hardmodes on bosses where it felt appropriate to add a hardmode (so not forcing every boss to have hardmode).

separate 10 and 25 man raids - not lockouts, raids, like tier 4. none of this 1 size fits all bollocks which just leads to fighting over which is more difficult. if you dont have a 25 man guild, do it in LFR or god forbid, work with other guilds on your realm (promoting realm communities), but also...

add 10 man raids to LFR

add a separate queue to LFR with activated hardmodes enabled, but require a minor attunement (killing last boss in normal LFR) 10% nerf and determination buff turned off.

Sounds quite convoluted to me, but it's hard to disagree with much of what you've said.

[Enosh]

Why do people always bring up this argument?

because it is what happened?
and because they most probably aren't happy about loosing subs and would like to prevent further sub looses (and get new and old players back)

why is "blizzard will do what it can to keep as many players as possible" such a crazy statement to make...

[Lumineus]

I've been on these forums for a while, and that's potentially the most arrogant comment I've ever come across. You're judging someone (me, in this case) whom you don't know, have never seen play, and have no basis to judge his ability on. Luckily, we can remedy this; my signature gives you the option to figure out who you're talking to so, before coming back with more elitist twaddle, take a look through my details.

Firstly:

Nobody is talking about "tuning raids for special needs" (I fixed your spelling, by the way - no need to thank me). The issue is that normal raids are statistically too difficult for players approaching raiding as beginners, and the WoW Progress numbers insinuate this very, very heavily. It's not rocket science. You may say that a progress raider should enjoy the hard work and wipes, but new players will not enjoy it - particularly on normal mode encounters where they may play perfectly, and it only takes one person to wipe them.

Part of the problem with normal mode raiding, particularly for newcomers, is the time investment involved. A "casual" player is one whose playtime is limited, commonly it's completely divorced from a person's ability to play. In order for them to beat the gearing hump, they're forced into a thankless LFR farm, dailies and valor grinding. To learn an encounter, a commitment to outside sources will be required so that encounters can be studied before pulled; good luck figuring out Dark Animus with only the Dungeon Journal to help you. Now, you've already proven that you lack any semblance of an understanding of other people, so I'll make this clear:

The current raiding model is pricing casuals out entirely, because it's demanding a time investment many can't hope to meet. The "gap" discussed has as much to do with time as it does with skill. Potentially more so.

Secondly:

You're utterly ignoring the individuals who simply want to play with their friends and enjoy a bit of progression on their own terms - these are the players that were brought in and given the best content during Wrath of the Lich King, but have since been utterly ignored by Blizzard because Cataclysm heralded the developers decision to listen to people like you. Except, your own argument is self contradictory and you don't see why. You said "normals are easy", an implication that you burned through them in no time and started work on heroic modes. Is that a fair assumption? In which case, let me ask you this:

Why are you so bothered about "easy" content being made more accessible for other people?

Heroic modes are there for the committed and dedicated players, and LFR is there for those who can't (or choose not to) commit to a set raiding schedule. The ultra-casual and the ultra-committed have their areas for raiding. So who does normal mode serve? Currently, it's hammering the people it's supposedly aimed at, something that's statistically proven by the way, so we can safely say that IT'S TOO HARD.

Thirdly:

Let's forget your rambling comment and stick a pin in the fact that it was a snowflake comment designed to look impressive to those who lack the capability to think for themselves. It's fine, there are plenty of you.

Let's instead concentrate on what could be described as the "recruitment churn". Recently, two very well-known American guilds tried to band together for progression and have since called it a day. Prior to the launch of MoP, the best progression guild in the world (our Finnish chums) called time on 25-man progression due to a lack of recruits that fitted their own criteria. Hell, many top progression guilds are now closing the doors on recruiting tanks because the recruits they're getting just aren't up to it. The problem here is that the players YOU presumably want in YOUR guild are barely getting out of the gates because the raiding model isn't helping them to learn the game, or properly develop as players. The way it used to work saw a casual player enjoy his 10-man content, find he was one of the better players in his guild, and then look to join a 25-man guild. If he then wanted to make the bigger commitment, he could look for server leading guilds and apply for consideration if they had a spot available.

That individual had probably hit the big ding, done some heroics to gear up, learned to ply his trade in the relatively forgiving environment of 10-man content, then made the step up if he had the time and ability to do so.

Alas, that curve is now entirely broken. Players going into LFR don't learn anything because you can literally AFK your way through an encounter. If that player then wants to step up, being relatively new to the game, he's likely to get utterly smashed when he attempts this difficulty of normal mode, and will probably be vilified by the likes of you. Because only masochists, idiots and children put up with that type of scorn from prepubescent tough guys on the Internet, decent people find better things to do with their time and depart. This takes more potential emerging talent out of the raiding pool and makes the top guilds have less capable players from which to draw from.

TL, DR?

You haven't a clue what you're talking about, your argument is nothing more than a baby spitting its dummy out because someone else has a toy, and you don't even realise that your opinion is hurting your own guild.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Nairobi]

TL, DR?

You haven't a clue what you're talking about, your argument is nothing more than a baby spitting its dummy out because someone else has a toy, and you don't even realise that your opinion is hurting your own guild.

Here endeth the lesson.

Welcome back. You and I haven't seen eye to eye, and while I still am of the camp that further reducing the difficulty level of raiding is not the solution to the "raiding problem", I admit that it is not likely a problem that can be solved. I'm looking at this from a perspective of a previous/current World/US/Server first raider since Vanilla, so of course my idea of what is "easy" or "simple" is vastly different than (most) others'.

I've got no real issue with making normal modes easier, since most/all heroic guilds just clear them on week one then go on to progression. It doesn't really affect us, but I have 2 concerns.

1) It sets a bad precedent that "if things are too hard, we can just complain enough to make them easier". There's some blue post that basically says this, tongue-in-cheek, that "it's sometimes easier to ask for buffs than to actually kill something". There is certainly a feeling of accomplishment from creating, refining and successfully implementing a strat to defeat a fun, difficult encounter. However, a LOT of players now really only desire the log-in and queue type of playstlye, and either do not want or do not have the ability to defeat challenging content, either via lack of time, skill, or coordination. It's a shame, really, as the high you get from that first kill after 5, 10, 50+ wipes is a rush that is hard to replicate (in the virtual world, anyway). It's tragic, but it's what the vast majority of the community prefers. Instant gratification.

2) If we nerf normals to DS levels (and leave heroics untouched), we'd see a ton of 12/12N guilds. That's cool. Really, it is. But the inevitable problem comes when those guilds clear Lei Shen, and then have an interesting decision to make. Do they a) go try heroics, or b) just keep farming normals? Outside of JinRohk, they're gonna hit a SERIOUS brick wall in heroics, BUT if they opt to just farm normals, that's a lot of burout waiting to happen. No progression, no new challenges, just farming the same, nerfed fights over and over. Sure, it would likely take them a few weeks or maybe even months to get to 12/12, but then they've hit their ceiling. Capping out on progress for progression raiders happens too, but it's a finish line for us. It means less time invested, options to play alts (or not play at all) outside of farm nights in prep for next tier. "Normal" raiders may not feel that same sigh of relief upon finishing their content, but maybe they will.

Just my musings, anyway.

[Razamith]

"Hi I'm a marathon runner and when you average american get winded after a mile or two on a half-marathon I laugh and tell you you suck and that half-marathons are fine for the average american. Go walk 200 feet down the street and be happy." That's what so many of the "fine as is" people sound like in this thread.

#1 wont happen by bliz for many (valid) reasons so no need discussing it
#2 solves it but I dont like it cause it shifts the gap to just a less-vocal complaint group, but will still exist.
#3 similarly works but forces your hand over time and may bleed into heroic difficulty which is a bad thing.
#4 is really the solution, especially if it can just apply the "next-tier nerf debuff" as only changes, and mark loot as "easy-mode" lower iLvl (or just drop LFR quality for all i care) therefore saving on future development and opening up raiding to a much larger population (good for the game, would have prevented dozens of people i know who have left).

[Pua]

Welcome back. You and I haven't seen eye to eye, and while I still am of the camp that further reducing the difficulty level of raiding is not the solution to the "raiding problem", I admit that it is not likely a problem that can be solved. I'm looking at this from a perspective of a previous/current World/US/Server first raider since Vanilla, so of course my idea of what is "easy" or "simple" is vastly different than (most) others'.

We've rarely seen eye to eye, but I'm 100% with you on this; with the way the raiding endgame has evolved, there simply isn't an easy fix and I don't envy the developers that have to try and come up with one. Almost every "solution" has multiple pitfalls, and either way Blizzard are going to have to do something. Raiding numbers have utterly crashed since WotLK, and the more casually-orientated guilds that were brought into the fold during that expansion have, essentially, been tossed on the scrapheap.

1) It sets a bad precedent that "if things are too hard, we can just complain enough to make them easier". There's some blue post that basically says this, tongue-in-cheek, that "it's sometimes easier to ask for buffs than to actually kill something". There is certainly a feeling of accomplishment from creating, refining and successfully implementing a strat to defeat a fun, difficult encounter.

I think we need to be a little realistic, though. Horridon is the first wall in normal ToT and when people say "it's easy" I almost tear my hair out. Sure, it's easy for some - but the numbers don't lie. Horridon is the latest guild killer in this expansion, following nicely on from Garalon in the previous tier, and I don't think it's good for the game.

Ultimately, I think normal modes should do one thing in particular - let you carry people. During WotLK, I was one of the strongest performers in my guild along with our owl and Restoration shaman. The chance to play with friends meant that we were happy helping them out because playing with friends is a pleasure. It's not a burden. Now, the content is just too punishing on each individual member of the raid because it only takes one mistake from one person to blow everyone else up. We all had a good laugh with four people finishing off 25-man Heigan, but that's just not possible now.

That said, I understand why this is happening to an extent. Those casual guilds I spoke of still used things like VOIP programs or DBM, so the developers have had to come up with encounters with random elements that can beat (for want of a better word) very sophisticated mods. Funnily enough, though, I think that's a pretty good barometer. If you need a boss mod and VOIP program for a normal encounter, I would argue it's mechanically too hard.

However, a LOT of players now really only desire the log-in and queue type of playstlye, and either do not want or do not have the ability to defeat challenging content, either via lack of time, skill, or coordination. It's a shame, really, as the high you get from that first kill after 5, 10, 50+ wipes is a rush that is hard to replicate (in the virtual world, anyway). It's tragic, but it's what the vast majority of the community prefers. Instant gratification.

I think this argument is overplayed somewhat. Yes, it's easy to demonize casual players into a shower of crying babies, just as it's easy to demonize committed raiders as elitist no-lifers. The biggest problem with this game is that both sides of this debate are at each others throat, and neither side is trying to understand the other. The most tragic part of this is that Blizzard caused this rift in the community by blaming one half of the community for decisions that negatively impacted the other half.

I'm not sure the community has ever recovered from it.

2) If we nerf normals to DS levels (and leave heroics untouched), we'd see a ton of 12/12N guilds. That's cool. Really, it is. But the inevitable problem comes when those guilds clear Lei Shen, and then have an interesting decision to make. Do they a) go try heroics, or b) just keep farming normals?

I know a lot of guilds that managed to get through the entirety of WotLK without killing a single end boss, but they still raided consistently throughout it. I actually agree with some of the recent blue commentary that more casual players just want their characters to develop and that requires progression, something which is actually divorced from "killing the last boss".

Outside of JinRohk, they're gonna hit a SERIOUS brick wall in heroics, BUT if they opt to just farm normals, that's a lot of burout waiting to happen. No progression, no new challenges, just farming the same, nerfed fights over and over. Sure, it would likely take them a few weeks or maybe even months to get to 12/12, but then they've hit their ceiling.

This always has to be a consideration. However, I'm going to graphically convey what I think the gaps in raiding should look like by using a seven-point scale:

1. LFR entry.
2. LFR completion.
3. Normal entry.
4. Normal farm.
5. Normal completion.
6. Meta-achievement.
7. Heroics.

More or less, that was how it worked during WotLK and it was generally pretty well staggered for casual players, intermediates and the more committed. Now, we're (broadly) seeing this:

1. LFR entry and completion.
2. -
3. -
4. -
5. -
6. Normal entry and completion.
7. Heroics and meta-achievement.

It's a blunt overlay, but you see the point - everything is crammed in at the top end. I'm a big fan of the meta-achievements because they're an inventive way of giving players who can complete normals some more progression if they don't have the guys for heroics, but with a tangible reward at the end. Unfortunately, Blizzard then chose to lump heroic kills onto the meta, taking it away from everyone else.

What I'm trying to say is that if Blizzard were to make normals easier, there are ways in which to keep people interested once they've found their level. Now, it's pretty much a commitment to heroic raiding or you may as well call it a day and queue up for the ghetto.

The whole approach just seems backward to me. While Brian Holinka is busy trying to get people into PvP, Ion Hazzikostas is trying to run people out of raids.

I just don't see why.

[Raelbo]

Having had the weekend to think this one over, and being in a guild that is the epitome of the problem Blizzard have identified and want to rectify, here is a shot a good, sensible solution that I believe is reasonable to implement and has the least impact on the rest of the raiding community:

But First a bit of background: We need to identify who this problem is affecting:

In short, casual 10M raiding guilds who want to raid together but lack the time to commit 2-3 proper raid nights plus doing all the weekly chores necessary to be properly prepared for the current level. LFR is not necessarily a problem for these people, but they actually want to play the game together as a group, not as a part of a random mob.

This problem does not really affect the 25 man community so much because people committing to 25 man groups are already going to be at a level where they are coping in normal modes, however this solution might appeal to some 25 man raiders as an alternative source of fun/gearing alts.


So without further ado, here is what I suggest:

A 10 man "easy" mode:

This mode is set at the same difficulty level as LFR:
This means minimal dev effort. The same restrictions to mechanics applies. The scaling of damage and boss hp between 10 man and 25 man LFR will be matched to the scaling of damage and boss hp between 10 man normal and 25 man normal. So the tuning of difficulty is basically no effort for the devs. The determination buff is, however, not necessary in this mode since it is an organised group who all want to learn the fight and improve.

This mode shares loot items with LFR:
This means again no effort for the devs. The same items drop in 10 man easy as in LFR.

Like LFR, mounts, titles and achievements are not available in easy mode:
Because to do otherwise would take away the sense of accomplishment of getting these things and push normal/heroic raiders to do easy mode for them.

This mode shares a lockout with 10/25 Normal/Heroic:
This means it does not interfere with those modes, or force the people doing them to do easy mode as well. The people doing easy mode will do so because they are not coping in normal, so it gives them a chance to do some progression as a group. Once they feel confident on easy mode, they can progress to normal mode.


For my guild, I think this would be a pretty neat feature. It would give us a chance to experience the fight and mechanics in a not so punishing environment, together as a group. It would also give our weaker players a chance to gear up to LFR levels on their terms. Getting together for guild night (which for some of our guildies is most of their playtime in a week) and then hitting LFR with 15 odd strangers isn't nearly as fun as having our own 10 man instance would be.

This would also give a nice alternative for pugs and alts who are currently unhappy with LFR.

I see this solution as something not to replace either normal modes, or LFR. But as something to complement them and make the content reach a larger audience.

[Lumineus]

You guys are deluded. No one will waste their lockout on LFR loot, whether you cut fifteen players out or not. I can't believe relegating 10-man to second-class is actually winning the poll, either. That would instantly cost Blizzard another million subs, easily.