Would you prefer Garrosh killed, exiled, imprisoned, or redeemed?

[Aquamonkey]

DisneyVillainDeath
HoistByHisOwnPetard
KarmicDeath

[Rend Blackhand]

Tell me what he done to gain the title of Overlord and what he done during his time as Overlord. And no, what the others did from him doesn't count.

If that's the case, what did Thrall do to become Warchief? Bugger all, he was just an important orc standing around when Doomhammer died.

[Zulkhan]

Not stable? If it wasn't for Gul'dan's betrayal Azeroth would be 100% Horde right now. People are quick to dismiss the Old Horde as savages and idiots, but they actually got very close to the total annihilation of the Alliance. Something the new Horde can't begin to imagine.

When you put it like that, the new Horde is quite incompetent.

Comparing the New Horde with the Old one it's silly by the basic. The Old Horde was nothing more than an unstoppable war machine created with the sole purpose of destroy anything and anyone, no wonder that was so powerful.
They were just a bunch a addicted monsters, with an unbending leadership and a greedy and egoistic attitude, all the chieftains cared to fight one another for elevate their power in the Horde even more than actually fight for it. There was no union, they were just "united" by their common lust for brutality, blood and power.

Plus, they became so powerful because they decided to become the humble slaves and pets of the Burning Legion; they were nothing more than scroungers that defeated an enemy and conquered a world, they had to find a new enemy and a new world for just not destroying themselves, prey of their bloodlust. They were like the Scourge, but with minds and functioning brains, and this is ironically the reason for which they failed to defeat the humans in the end, because of their personal and egoistical goals.

The New Horde indeed is not that powerful because they didn't give themselves to any demon for obtaining awesome powers, they are simply as the Alliance was and is, but with a different mindset of course.

[Deleted]

If that's the case, what did Thrall do to become Warchief? Bugger all, he was just an important orc standing around when Doomhammer died.

Not even close. A well known gladiator that was looking for supporting from whatever orcish clan was around (Frostwolves and Warsong) and later defeated an old orc that insulted Thrall and the Frostwolves. That old orc was Doomhammer.

Doomhammer was the one that brought the plan, but Thrall was the one that brought the strenght and the numbers. He was already Doomhammer's second-in-command.

Garrosh became Overlord because he was Grom's son, that's it.

[Rend Blackhand]

Not even close. A well known gladiator that was looking for supporting from whatever orcish clan was around (Frostwolves and Warsong) and later defeated an old orc that insulted Thrall and the Frostwolves. That old orc was Doomhammer.

Doomhammer was the one that brought the plan, but Thrall was the one that brought the strenght and the numbers. He was already Doomhammer's second-in-command.

Garrosh became Overlord because he was Grom's son, that's it.

Thrall was only well known as a gladiator to humans. The orcs didn't know about it at the time.

Garrosh earned his place as overlord during the Northrend campaign, argue what you saw in quests all you want. Various books and that have said he is a very skilled warrior and tactician so that's the way it is.

[Zulkhan]

These are all from page 19-20 of Tides of War. While it's certainly true that it's not purely for domination... it's rather obvious that's the primary goal. All of his talk has one thing in common: Horde dominance. It's not just about resources or land, it's about proving that the Horde is superior.

Dominion means little else than just submit the Alliance and conquer the lands they hold. All that you quoted is the desire to corner them in their lands, in the Eastern, and be sure that they will never try to threatening the orcs if they are crushed with no spirit or courage to counter-attack.

[bledgor]

Thrall was only well known as a gladiator to humans. The orcs didn't know about it at the time.

Garrosh earned his place as overlord during the Northrend campaign, argue what you saw in quests all you want. Various books and that have said he is a very skilled warrior and tactician so that's the way it is.

Everything else suggests he isnt that great of a warrior. Lets be honest, in duels he is 0-2, Thrall WOULD have dropped him and Carine WAS dropping him with poison turning the tide.

[Deleted]

Thrall was only well known as a gladiator to humans. The orcs didn't know about it at the time.

Doomhammer did.

Garrosh earned his place as overlord during the Northrend campaign, argue what you saw in quests all you want. Various books and that have said he is a very skilled warrior and tactician so that's the way it is.

Wrong, Garrosh was given the position of Overlord just because he was Grom's son. That's the point. He had absolutely no Horde background before Thrall found him in Nagrand. And even in Nagrand it was Saurfang Junior that done all the work.

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 08:52 PM ----------

Everything else suggests he isnt that great of a warrior. Lets be honest, in duels he is 0-2, Thrall WOULD have dropped him and Carine WAS dropping him with poison turning the tide.

You did brought a good point. Besides Cairne, that we all know what happened, did Garrosh ever won a duel against a major or even minor character?

[Rend Blackhand]

Everything else suggests he isnt that great of a warrior. Lets be honest, in duels he is 0-2, Thrall WOULD have dropped him and Carine WAS dropping him with poison turning the tide.

True, but Thrall and Cairne were the greatest warriors of the Horde. Fighting in a battle, Garrosh is a greatly talented fighter.

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 08:56 PM ----------

Doomhammer did.



Wrong, Garrosh was given the position of Overlord just because he was Grom's son. That's the point. He had absolutely no Horde background before Thrall found him in Nagrand. And even in Nagrand it was Saurfang Junior that done all the work.

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 08:52 PM ----------



You did brought a good point. Besides Cairne, that we all know what happened, did Garrosh ever won a duel against a major or even minor character?

He was a high ranking orc already, he was the chieftan of the Warsong Clan in Nagrand and before he was made Overlord. He justified his promotion with his success in Northrend.

[Dreknar20]

Tell me what he done to gain the title of Overlord and what he done during his time as Overlord. And no, what the others did from him doesn't count..

Well according to Metzen Garrosh was given the titel because Thrall was all "hey you seem like a confident guy, why dont you lead my armies"

What has he done? He established Horde footholds throughout Northrend and eventually pushed to the gates of Icecrown. What others did? You mean the players? If thats the case all NPCs everywhere are just as much of failures as Garrosh.

[Ironscroll]

Heres hoping for Vol'jin as Warchief.

Yeah so he can drop to the ground and scream for help after he gets stabbed by a random Rogue.. No thanks. If he get's Warchief I'm done with the Horde for good.

On Topic, I hope for Exile or imprisonment, death is so over done and I would love to have a possible reoccurring Villain, eve n if he runs away and starts his own Dark Horde,make him a reoccurring Mini Raid Boss, he can be the new troll Raid every expansion.

[Dreknar20]

Dominion means little else than just submit the Alliance and conquer the lands they hold. All that you quoted is the desire to corner them in their lands, in the Eastern, and be sure that they will never try to threatening the orcs if they are crushed with no spirit or courage to counter-attack.

pretty much the rule of thumb dealing with your enemies/rivals
You want them to be as weak and pathetic as possible so that when push comes to shove, you can kick their ass

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 08:00 PM ----------

True, but Thrall and Cairne were the greatest warriors of the Horde. Fighting in a battle, Garrosh is a greatly talented fighter..

Cairne himself described Garrosh as a "striking figure of orcish power, musucalr and proud"
Even when trying to kill him he had a moment of guilt over how Garrosh would be a loss to the Horde "as a fine warrior if nothing else"

[Deleted]

He was a high ranking orc already, he was the chieftan of the Warsong Clan in Nagrand and before he was made Overlord. He justified his promotion with his success in Northrend.

There was no Warsong Clan in Nagrand, he was equal among many Mag'har, like Jorin and Dranosh. For some reason Thrall intended to make Dranosh Warchief, and not Garrosh.

He justified his promotion by doing what? I keep reading this but I fail to see it back-upped with sources of his doings.

[Zulkhan]

You did brought a good point. Besides Cairne, that we all know what happened, did Garrosh ever won a duel against a major or even minor character?

I think there is only the suggestion in Tides of War that he "held his ground" against Varian this time, compared to Ashenvale, maybe even having the upper hand, but the duel was interrupted again, excatly like in Wolfheart.

My guess is that actually Garrosh is a pretty powerful warrior, still he wasn't in Wotlk/Shattering because he was inexperienced, compared to veterans like Thrall and Cairne.

[Durandro]

If that's the case, what did Thrall do to become Warchief? Bugger all, he was just an important orc standing around when Doomhammer died.

No. Thrall personally lead the assault that took out Blackmoore after Doomhammer was killed, from the front. He then led his clan from the front, personally negotiated with other faction leaders to form alliances, and faced a Pit Lord in personal combat. Not to mention he spearheaded the assault on Undercity.

Don't pull shit like that if you're going to be ignorant of the facts. Thrall took leadership because of his ability, and was the Orc that formed the new Horde. Garrosh got leadership because of his father's name, and has been busy destroying the new Horde and reducing it to an Orcs Only shadow of the old Horde.

[Deleted]

Well according to Metzen Garrosh was given the titel because Thrall was all "hey you seem like a confident guy, why dont you lead my armies"

Exactly my point.

What has he done? He established Horde footholds throughout Northrend and eventually pushed to the gates of Icecrown. What others did? You mean the players? If thats the case all NPCs everywhere are just as much of failures as Garrosh.

He established one and it failed. Who pushed to the gates of Icecrown was the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade. It was Saurfang that led the Horde assault.

[The Madgod]

Dominion means little else than just submit the Alliance and conquer the lands they hold. All that you quoted is the desire to corner them in their lands, in the Eastern, and be sure that they will never try to threatening the orcs if they are crushed with no spirit or courage to counter-attack.

Yeah... I know this. Hence why I said domination is their primary goal. Because that's what the quotes mean.

[Dreknar20]

He established one and it failed. Who pushed to the gates of Icecrown was the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade. It was Saurfang that led the Horde assault.

Warsong Hold, Agmar's Hammer, Conquest Hold?'
Ogrim's Hammer spearheaded the Horde thrust into Icecrown after the Wrathgate fiasco

And who did Saurfang serve under? And who was standing next to him?

[Deleted]

lol i want him to be redeemed.
Why?
Because he is the most badass hordie out there, why kill him off just like that...

[Durandro]

He established one and it failed. Who pushed to the gates of Icecrown was the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade. It was Saurfang that led the Horde assault.

Exactly. Saurfang was the Horde hero of Northrend. He even paid for his victory with the death of his son.

Garrosh just stole all the glory, after doing nothing to earn it. The fool even almost started two extra wars against the Alliance at the worst possible times because he couldn't keep his mouth shut (Ulduar and Trial of the Crusader). He has no self control whatsoever.