Poll: What would you do with Garrosh

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Garrosh and Doomhammer are quite similar, yet Ogrim has a city named after him
    The only commonality between Garrosh and Doomhammer is that they waged war against the Alliance... Orgrim however prized honor and did not like what the Horde had become. He wanted peace for his people and that meant taking over the entirety of the Eastern Kingdoms.

    There's also the little fact that Orgrim attempted to honestly rectify his sins and mistakes. That would be extremely out of character for Garrosh.

    And yet Garrosh was still the overall leader of the Horde's armies.
    They established fortified hubs throughout Northrend and where pressing ever closer to Icecrown, all under his command
    Because he was being taught by someone who actually knew combat and how to wage war. Garrosh's tactics by themselves would have seen the Horde falter and die in Northrend.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Oh yeah. Forgot about that play.

    Well, if Garrosh does survive and gets exiled, odds are either he'll go even further down the slippery slope and show up as a villain in the future, or he'll seriously re-evaluate everything he believed in and show up later as a surprise ally, spending the rest of his life trying to atone for the atrocities he committed as Warchief (and while he might redeem himself in the player character's eyes, odds are publically he'll still be considered a monster like Gul'dan and Blackhand).
    Most people forget that play. I think having him as a musing penitent would be pretty unlikely really, and the scenarios where he changes tune or remains a villain and makes a reappearance later seems more likely given the setting. But Garrosh does seem a bit schizophrenic at times, I still remember the Stonetalon cata questline where he displays horror and even talks about the value of honour after witnessing Overlord Krom'gar bombing the Druid settlement. Garrosh seems to exist in two mindsets, the bloody minded "doing anything absolutely necessary to win" other times trying to prove himself to be the pupil of Saurfang or Thrall. It lends him some tragedy, but I would be happy enough if he died as well.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    He wanted peace for his people and that meant taking over the entirety of the Eastern Kingdoms..
    How is that little different from Garrosh's desire to take over Kalimdor?

    Plus Ogrim didnt shy away from using ruthless methods such as Death Knights, or enslaving dragons
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    How is that little different from Garrosh's desire to take over Kalimdor?

    Plus Ogrim didnt shy away from using ruthless methods such as Death Knights, or enslaving dragons
    It's different because the motive is different... for both of your points.

    Garrosh wanted Kalimdor to show the Horde is dominant. Orgrim just wanted security.

    Garrosh gladly uses terrible, ruthless methods. Orgrim did it to try and ensure Horde victory but he sure as hell didn't like it.

  5. #225
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Garrosh and Doomhammer are quite similar, yet Ogrim has a city named after him
    Doomhammer had the benefit of being a pretty chill dude when he visited the Frostwolves and started mentoring Thrall, and it looks like dying in an act of redemption in orcish culture is enough to whitewash some of your less-groovy acts. See: Orgrim's death liberating orcs from an internment camp, Grom dying while slaying Mannoroth, and Kilrogg and Kargath still being generally-revered among the orcs. On the other hand, unrepentant rat bastards like Blackhand, Rend, and Gul'dan really get the stink-eye culturally because for orcs, actions speak louder than words and their actions said 'I don't even give a fuck yo.'
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  6. #226
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    Garrosh's "success" on Northrend is built upon Saurfang Senior and Junior work there. And of the Argent Crusade.

    Honestly, the reason why Garrosh gets all the credit is because he is the only top ranked Horde leader to come back from Northrend, because he barely done anything.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Garrosh and Doomhammer are quite similar, yet Ogrim has a city named after him[COLOR="red"]
    Not even close. Doomhammer respected his allies and enemies, Garrosh does not.

  7. #227
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    In the cases of being exiled and imprisoned, he would have to kill himself if he truly believes in "Lok'tar ogar, victory, or death!"

    When it comes to being redeemed, I doubt that can ever happen after all that he has done, and is about to do. Vol'jin would never let him stay in the Horde with his life intact.

    At the same time I feel it's a waste to just kill him as well, so much work has gone into him as a character that it would be sad to just kill him. But I don't really see any other way out of it either.

  8. #228
    nahhhhhh.......execution or not, i don't care, i would rather see a dark horde after him, but sadly that won't happen.........why must the horde be so hippi? it was cool in wc1+2. After doomhammer the horde is really a collection of pussies. :-/

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 05:11 PM ----------



    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Not even close. Doomhammer respected his allies and enemies, Garrosh does not.
    Doomhammer slaughtered Lothar by ambushing him with superior numbers, while Lothar was on a diplomatic mission, guess you never played that scenario. That was not a fight, but an execution. Today you see a big Statue of Lothar, who is the guy to honor as he fought to the death in that doomhamer ambush, in the burning steppes. Didn't see much Statues of Doomhammer, maybe point me to one.

    After the battle of Crestfall, the remnants of the routed Orcish fleet went south to Azeroth. With the war being all but finished, Lothar's intent during the parley was to accept the unconditional surrender of the Orcish Hordes.[3] Unfortunately, Doomhammer wanted to fight till the end. When Lothar and his troops arrived near Blackrock Spire, they were ambushed by a huge group of orcs and ogres. Lothar fought with courage, but his forces were outnumbered. He was slain by Doomhammer, and only a handful soldiers survived the battle, including the paladin Turalyon, who would since be haunted by survivor's guilt.
    source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Assault_on_Blackrock_Spire

    Doomhammer wasn't good or evil... he was brutal. You should have played that game, he wasn't thrall's father or something or anything like Thrall, more like Grom Hellscream, just without the demonic influence, he was against demons and locks, but that does not make him a nice guy.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-05-19 at 05:16 PM.

  9. #229
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    kill him, chop of his head and use it as a bowling ball in a new Darkmoon Faire mini game

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    because he barely done anything.
    Being the Overlord that led the Warsong Offesnive hardly counts as doing nothing

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 05:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Not even close. Doomhammer respected his allies and enemies, Garrosh does not.
    They both waged wars of conquest against the Alliance and they both used ruthless tactics, seems similar to me
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #231
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Doomhammer slaughtered Lothar by ambushing him with superior numbers, while Lothar was on a diplomatic mission, guess you never played that scenario. That was not a fight, but an execution.
    Retconned in the Tides of Darkness novel. Doomhammer took Lothar on in a duel during the battle, and both their troops kept out of it. Doomhammer killed Lothar, then Turalyon kicked the tar out of Doomhammer with Lothar's broken sword after coming into his own as a paladin (before then he'd been having a minor crisis of faith that limited his effectiveness as a paladin).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  12. #232
    Dreadlord Trollfat's Avatar
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    I want to be able to KILL the endboss for once. JUST THIS ONCE!!

  13. #233
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    I think he will die but I would like very much like his father against Mannoroth.



    Something like this:

    After being defeated, the Sha of Pride who was "inside" him shows itself and take down every characters around it (players like heroes).
    Garrosh see this scene, confused and powerless, and the Sha say to him what his pride has made and what he's going to do with his people.
    Realising what all he has done and the threat he has made, Garrosh charges the Sha and, in a hopeless attack, kills the Sha but deadly injured by it.

    After that, Thrall gets close of dying Garrosh.
    "Thrall...I...just...want...to...be...like...my...father....."
    "You're exactly like him, Garrosh. Living like a tyrant, dying like a hero."

    PS: Sorry for the bad english

  14. #234
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    I don't care at all which will be his end. Whenever will be, i'll just see how will be portrayed. But i don't have any kind of burning desire to see him end in a way or another.

  15. #235
    Exiled. That would give him the opportunity to return in a future expansion after he raises some ragtag army of orcs in a mid-tier raid. Think Napolean.

    Plus imagine if he was stuck on an island off Durotar guarded by NPCs where we could go visit the poor loser in his disgrace!
    Last edited by hablix; 2013-05-19 at 05:48 PM.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    It's different because the motive is different... for both of your points.

    Garrosh wanted Kalimdor to show the Horde is dominant. Orgrim just wanted security.

    Garrosh gladly uses terrible, ruthless methods. Orgrim did it to try and ensure Horde victory but he sure as hell didn't like it.
    No, this is extremely wrong. Garrosh have an habit for warmongering and dominance indeed, as his father had, but he doesn't make it ONLY for say "we rule here baby". Even someone like Eitrigg in ToW, while criticizing Garrosh for his reckless tactics, have to admits that his actions during Cataclysm have lessened the dire of the situation in Durotar. Yes, he aims to dominion, but he wants to be sure that his people will have a proper living too, just as Orgrim wanted in the end.

    Still, what i liked of Orgrim compared not only to Garrosh, but especially to Grom, is that, while not a "kind" leader like Thrall, is much more cool-minded and reasonable of the Hellscreams.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 05:52 PM.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Being the Overlord that led the Warsong Offesnive hardly counts as doing nothing

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 05:15 PM ----------


    They both waged wars of conquest against the Alliance and they both used ruthless tactics, seems similar to me
    If you simplify it to such a degree then of course it seems similar... but really those are the only two similarities which aren't even entirely similar. As I've mentioned (and you seemingly ignored) their reasons for going to war were different as well as their attitudes on waging war and using those tactics. Claiming Garrosh is like Doomhammer is like saying Turalyon and Arthas are alike. They were both human and both fought against the Horde using paladin magics. Similar. Yet, their reasons for doing so were pretty different and their attitudes were also very different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    No, this is extremely wrong. Garrosh have an habit for warmongering and dominance indeed, as his father had, but this doesn't make it ONLY for say "we rule here baby"
    When you read Tides of War, that's his reasoning. He wants to show the world that the Horde is dominant. The resources that he gets are simply extra benefits.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Not stable? If it wasn't for Gul'dan's betrayal Azeroth would be 100% Horde right now. People are quick to dismiss the Old Horde as savages and idiots, but they actually got very close to the total annihilation of the Alliance. Something the new Horde can't begin to imagine.

    When you put it like that, the new Horde is quite incompetent.
    I'd like to remind you the Horde currently possess weapons of mass destruction whilst the Alliance do not. Between the Forsaken Plague and Sylv's ability to resurrect dead humans as new Forsaken, she literally could be a Lich Queen, under her own cognition, allied to the Horde, and decimate all of Azeroth for the Horde.

    Which makes no sense that Garrosh has kept her chained when he obviously wants to own the world. It worked in Cataclysm when he still had some semblance of honor and her methods were questionable, but now he's gone nuts and you'd expect him to embrace questionable methods.

  19. #239
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    I'd say killed, I really hope he doesn't get any lame redemption and just gets killed.

  20. #240
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    When you read Tides of War, that's his reasoning. He wants to show the world that the Horde is dominant. The resources that he gets are simply extra benefits.
    It's hard to define "extra benefits" the resources he would get when you have a numerous population like the orcish one living in Durotar. He talks all the time of dominion because is the only way in which he conceive the "gathering" of resources and new lands, he talks of the Alliance races as "whismical and egoistic" for justify his complete unwillingness to negotiate. In his mind, the orcs must just take what they need to, not "bow down" their heads to the Alliance with peace agreements, discussions and so on. And this because Garrosh is addicted to his own pride.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 06:16 PM.

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