Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    I am Murloc! Terahertz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Your basement
    Posts
    5,177
    I've been a solo player ever since I started playing again back in cataclysm. (Was forced to quit during wotlk due to my computer breaking down)

    When I first logged onto my old toon and looked in my guild I was so extremely disappointed. The active and social guild it used to be was completely empty. I was the only one online. Goldshire was also empty (which used to be filled with twinks, inexperienced newbies and high and experienced mains).

    Since then I played solo. First few weeks was OK, I was busy levelling a rogue and was motivated to hit level 85 as I had never hit 80 during wotlk. But then it became quite boring. People were joining guilds because of their level, not the social aspect and I basically lost the will to actually be social in WoW.

    Even now, after I found a tiny guild with a couple of active players who oftenly talk in gchat, the games feels so... empty. Also everytime we try to recruit, people either leave the guild in a couple of days, or never log on. I believe I'm the latest newbie to the guild, and I've been in it since start 2013 simply because nobody joins a guild which can't do anything immediately, rather than just talking with eachother.

    I know this is more related to WoW, but it's starting to happen to other MMOs aswell. Guilds are quiet and empty, local chats are extinct and everything is about ranking and queueing.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Exorte View Post
    Ping Pong was so successful back in the day, why can't all game be like that?
    Time changes, technology change, people change, expectation change, etc.
    Nowadays people are complaining daily are a grind, go figure why that model won't work now. Seriously dailys....
    The number one computer game still today is solitaire. You may be stuck in the newer is always better mindset, but statistics prove you wrong, and the fact is that simple games are often very good sellers.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ult92 View Post
    In some ways, WoW was the same around TBC. Leveling was more solo oriented than FFXI, which at the time I thought was great, but you still needed to form groups with people on your own for almost all other content, no queuing (except for BGs). I did all of this and yes, I was a casual player.
    You know I often wonder what percentage of players actually raided in Vanilla, TBC and Wrath. Anecdotal accounts by old players give a skewed perspective, as the ones who stuck around this long (and who post on forums) are often raiders, ex-raiders and the people they remember playing with were also other raiders and ex-raiders. When there was no LFR a lot of people simply chose not to raid at all (or tried to raid and found the time commitment and/or difficulty and attitude barrier too discouraging).

    I don't think it makes sense for a game to try to force people to play it in a way they clearly don't want to. A lot of people who play MMOs essentially treat it like a single player game, which is an attitude I don't think is great either for the game or for them, but there you have it. I think WoW is doing a pretty decent job so far of giving those people content while leaving the best gear in the game in the hardmode raiding scene where you need to cooperate with others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #24
    Honestly, the reason (imo) is that most players are only able to play solo 90% of the time, and if they/we get gated by forced group content, then we move on. Funny attitude I know, given it's an MMO, but there we have it. Back in Vanilla, where raiding was the only thing to do at level cap, most of us only logged on to raid, the server was dead outside peak times, and during peak we were all zoned into raids anyway, so most non-raiders hit 60 and quit. Solo content keeps players logged on more, and keeps the game "alive".

    Today's gamers, from what I've seen, are into the "instant gratification" games, usually found on consoles. The days of Everquest type players are mostly over, largely, because we're now all 30(40)+ have families and more time consuming jobs and just can't game the way we used too. I keep quitting WOW because I get fed up of being "alone" in an MMO, but then keep coming back because of the tools which allow me to play alone. Bit of a funny cycle, but it's just how it works. If it weren't for the solo tools, I'd have quit and never returned... simply because I couldn't, even if I wanted too.

    I used to be a Vanilla/TBC/Wrath raider, even did a bit in early Cata, but it's just not possible for me to commit to a raiding schedule anymore. A fair portion of my guild had the same problem and quit. MMO developers (like Blizzard) are recognizing (I think) that PC gamers (and thus traditional MMO players) are a dying breed, and to keep us around, they offer as much flexibility as possible. Which both burns us out with too much to do, and keeps us coming back for more.

    In my absence from WOW I've being playing Diablo 3.... a game which was apparently a failure according to most forum posts I read, yet I love it. Just as much, if not more than Diablo 2. Why? Because I can play solo, whenever I want (can), and there's no end in sight. I think most people who complain about D3 got to level 60, spent $$ on gear and then were shocked they had nothing left to do. I haven't touched the RMAH and don't intend too.

    While D3 obviously isn't an MMO, I use it as a comparison simply because it's a perfect example of Old gamers clashing with new, as an Old(er) gamer, I have no idea what all the kids are complaining about!
    Last edited by Dakara; 2013-05-20 at 04:09 AM.

  5. #25
    High Overlord Ult92's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    197
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Its not even about gear, HM and even most NM encounters are very different from the LFR versions. In a strict sense I suppose LFR is "seeing" the content since it uses the same map layout and creature graphics; but there is a tremendous lost in experiencing/appreciating the content.



    It is absolutely analogous. I'm not saying that building relationships in WoW is like finding a job, I'm saying you have to be proactive in putting yourself in a situation to make social connections. Going to work is not a natural occurrence, there are things you have to do to get there.




    Your OP says that solitary gameplay systems are making it difficult for you to interact with other people; that you feel alone in game. My point isn't necessarily that you can't make friends, its that you aren't trying to.



    It *is* on you to foster relationships and create bonds; those are personal things. There are people at school and work right now that will never make those connections because they won't try. There is a guy at my workplace that never has lunch in the lounge with the rest of us, never attends after work parties, and never volunteers for any committees. Is it my bosses fault that he isn't making social connections? Of course not. Likewise, its not Blizzards fault that you have decided that sitting in an empty guild and running LFR satisfies your desire to see content.
    Hmm, well I think at the very least we can come to the agreement that there is less incentive in the game to try and form connections. I think the fact we are debating about it is indicative of this. I've never come to the point where I need to 'try' and do it in an MMO until now, and I don't quite even want to try as much. So something must leading me to that or must be different.

    Oh, and, about that guy at your work - have you and the group you eat lunch with ever considered going up and kindly asking him to join you? I've been in those situations and it was always intimidating for me to 'make an entrance' in to another group, but it helped tremendously when somebody else offered an invite. I think people get the wrong impression about somebody when they don't come to social events or don't talk much. Like: "He must be unsocial, unfriendly, not a nice person" - sometimes, the person is just shy and doesn't want to come across as rude by intruding; in reality he/she could be very kind.
    Last edited by Ult92; 2013-05-20 at 04:46 AM.
    "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead."
    -John Maynard Keynes-

  6. #26
    High Overlord Ult92's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    197
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You know I often wonder what percentage of players actually raided in Vanilla, TBC and Wrath. Anecdotal accounts by old players give a skewed perspective, as the ones who stuck around this long (and who post on forums) are often raiders, ex-raiders and the people they remember playing with were also other raiders and ex-raiders. When there was no LFR a lot of people simply chose not to raid at all (or tried to raid and found the time commitment and/or difficulty and attitude barrier too discouraging).

    I don't think it makes sense for a game to try to force people to play it in a way they clearly don't want to. A lot of people who play MMOs essentially treat it like a single player game, which is an attitude I don't think is great either for the game or for them, but there you have it. I think WoW is doing a pretty decent job so far of giving those people content while leaving the best gear in the game in the hardmode raiding scene where you need to cooperate with others.
    I can agree with this, but at the same time I want to highlight a point you made. The more dedicated players (for example, those who raided) are often the ones that stick around. There is something to be said about an audience, fanbase, or playerbase that, albeit small, always turns out and remains loyal. This is why we have arthouse film, cinema, etc. Just because there is a small audience doesn't mean it can't work. Yet it seems games are shifting away from targeting that audience. When you think about it - is there really a problem with targeting the player that has lots of time and opportunity for commitment, rather than everyone?

    Yes, reaching for a broader base can be more lucrative, but it's not as stable. They will come and go. The real risk comes when you alienate the more dedicated playerbase.

    I have a hard time characterizing myself back in TBC. Was I casual or hardcore player? I raided about 2-3 nights week. I wasn't in the top guilds and didn't really think of myself as a hardcore player. I didn't really have that much time to play, but it was significant.

    I don't really have solutions to offer, either. I think retrenchment of solo-oriented systems would actually have a catastrophic impact. If they removed LFR and LFD today, I think it would just be terrible because everyone has gotten used to it. Now that they negativity bias is assumed - people will react more strongly when something is taken away than when it is given - I don't think jumping back in time for WoW can work anymore.
    "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead."
    -John Maynard Keynes-

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •