Enhance, 502 Tier or 522?

[chazus]

Pretty simple. I'm just about VP capped. All my non-tier items are 522 (except weapon, 1 ring, 1 trink)

Am I better off going 4/5 Tier 502, or all 522? If tier, which 4?

[Speks]

I had a situation where i had:

2x 522 tiers + 2x 502 tiers
vs
2x 522 tiers + 2x 522 offpieces

i ran simcraft for both sets and (2x 522 tiers + 2x 522 offpieces) gear did like 150 more dps.
So, sim it and you know =)

[chazus]

I can't sim gear I don't have, unless there's a way to sim that? I'm not gonna buy 522 gear just to sim it >.>

[Malcanthet]

You can manually edit the Sim profile. Just change name + item id add reforges, gems etc. etc. And sim away.

[Speks]

You can manually edit the Sim profile. Just change name + item id add reforges, gems etc. etc. And sim away.

Or edit your gear in here http://www.askmrrobot.com/
Theres a button that says "Export" and there press that red simcraft button. copy+paste the "code" to simcraft and you are done =)
I usually first export and sim the gear that i currently have, and then do the changes.

[Deleted]

150 dps is not gain, so whatever suits you is good.

[Deleted]

I can't sim gear I don't have, unless there's a way to sim that? I'm not gonna buy 522 gear just to sim it >.>

You can use overrides to change gear, enchants, gems etc etc (it is a bit of a pita though).

[kosajk]

imo its beter to use items that you get from new raids even if they are curenlty a minor dps loss but in future you will use them cose of set bonuses
etleast in situation when someone else in raid wanted it cose taking item and keeping it in bag (cose you are waiting for 4/4 set bonus or something) may be pretty anoing to your guild m8s that could use it instantly to gain benefits

[Deleted]

imo its beter to use items that you get from new raids even if they are curenlty a minor dps loss but in future you will use them cose of set bonuses
etleast in situation when someone else in raid wanted it cose taking item and keeping it in bag (cose you are waiting for 4/4 set bonus or something) may be pretty anoing to your guild m8s that could use it instantly to gain benefits

Why the hell would you equip items that gives you a dps loss when you have items that would increase your dps? keep the item in the bag until you get the next piece for 2-/4-set if that really is a dps-gain.

[Sengiratolom]

4pt15 makes a big difference in the value of haste, hence if you have 4p, you are likely to have forged/gemmed the rest of your gear accordingly. When you break the bonus, it is very likely that the best secondary stat becomes mastery instead of haste, thereby devaluating your gear focus unless you regem/forge all of it.

I'd stick to the 4pt15 (502) and replace them with the 522 versions, while keeping in mind what offset item you are going for. Council helm or Primodious gloves are the best offset items this tier, the helm gives higher agi through the socket bonus, the gloves have passive haste and 2 sockets (aswell as not having expertise spat on them oposed to tier gloves) and make it easyer to not overcap yourself on exp.

[Raiju]

4pt15 makes a big difference in the value of haste, hence if you have 4p, you are likely to have forged/gemmed the rest of your gear accordingly. When you break the bonus, it is very likely that the best secondary stat becomes mastery instead of haste, thereby devaluating your gear focus unless you regem/forge all of it.

Considering the 4p usually makes a sub 0.6% damage increase, I find this hard to believe. RPPM trinkets and the meta, along with PE/EM should be much larger reasons for haste > mastery. Keeping in mind they were actually fairly close at the beginning of the expansion.

[Swarles]

Council helm or Primodious gloves are the best offset items this tier, the helm gives higher agi through the socket bonus, the gloves have passive haste and 2 sockets (aswell as not having expertise spat on them oposed to tier gloves) and make it easyer to not overcap yourself on exp.

Actually Horridon Chest is the best Off piece for enhance this tier.
Sockets and socket bonuses are used as part of an items weight. For instance (making up numbers for ease) Gloves A have 900 agi, one red socket, and a socket bonus of 60 agi.. that's 1140 agi from an item weight standpoint. Gloves B (same ilvl) have 2 red sockets, and a socket bonus of 120 agi. Gloves B WILL have 720 agi on them instead of the 900 Gloves A has. Both Gloves will add up to the same amount of agility. Just because one has an additional socket doesn't mean it has more stats.

ALSO, you say the 4p is what drives our haste value up, and this is incorrect. Not to say the 4p doesn't further increase the value of haste, but RPPM trinkets, Dancing Steel x2, and Meta gem all increase value of haste more than 4p. Our 4p is nice, but doesn't make mastery better than haste without it.

To OP:
It depends on the rest of your gear. Speks said to use askmrrobot to calculate it, and this is absolutely right.
Just import your dude, and you can manually change anything you have to other things, and import for simcraft.
Keep in mind tho.. if the 552s are a marginal gain over the 502 4 set... the 4 set is also an AMAZING survivability increase, so that part of it has to be weighed in as well.

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 06:26 PM ----------

Considering the 4p usually makes a sub 0.6% damage increase, I find this hard to believe. RPPM trinkets and the meta, along with PE/EM should be much larger reasons for haste > mastery. Keeping in mind they were actually fairly close at the beginning of the expansion.

And the 4p is actually closer to a 1.5-2% damage increase. Test it before spouting off random numbers. If you are looking at logs, and the wolves did 0.6% damage.. that's total raid damage.. not just your damage. You can't just click on the down arrow and use that number.

[Raiju]

And the 4p is actually closer to a 1.5-2% damage increase. Test it before spouting off random numbers. If you are looking at logs, and the wolves did 0.6% damage.. that's total raid damage.. not just your damage. You can't just click on the down arrow and use that number.

I know how to read a log. I've never personally never noticed my wolves do above 2% of my damage, so 1.5-2% from the 4p would therefore be impossible.

[Swarles]

Fine.. I'll provide the proof.
My last Iron Qon N kill.
Total Damage done - 69,302,019
Wolves Damage done - 3,313,522
That's right at 5% of my total damage done.
With the 4 piece doubling the uptime of wolves, this means for this specific fight it was a 2.5% increase.

[Sengiratolom]

Actually Horridon Chest is the best Off piece for enhance this tier.
Sockets and socket bonuses are used as part of an items weight. For instance (making up numbers for ease) Gloves A have 900 agi, one red socket, and a socket bonus of 60 agi.. that's 1140 agi from an item weight standpoint. Gloves B (same ilvl) have 2 red sockets, and a socket bonus of 120 agi. Gloves B WILL have 720 agi on them instead of the 900 Gloves A has. Both Gloves will add up to the same amount of agility. Just because one has an additional socket doesn't mean it has more stats.

ALSO, you say the 4p is what drives our haste value up, and this is incorrect. Not to say the 4p doesn't further increase the value of haste, but RPPM trinkets, Dancing Steel x2, and Meta gem all increase value of haste more than 4p. Our 4p is nice, but doesn't make mastery better than haste without it.

To OP:
It depends on the rest of your gear. Speks said to use askmrrobot to calculate it, and this is absolutely right.
Just import your dude, and you can manually change anything you have to other things, and import for simcraft.
Keep in mind tho.. if the 552s are a marginal gain over the 502 4 set... the 4 set is also an AMAZING survivability increase, so that part of it has to be weighed in as well.

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 06:26 PM ----------



And the 4p is actually closer to a 1.5-2% damage increase. Test it before spouting off random numbers. If you are looking at logs, and the wolves did 0.6% damage.. that's total raid damage.. not just your damage. You can't just click on the down arrow and use that number.

According to http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html gaze of garajal is bis, askmrrobot states the gloves are better, where do you see a sim with sandmail being better?

Ask mrrobot values for the gearsets (putting haste @ 2.65 to make it overtake the agi gems) all fully upgraded.
numbers below are stats from gear with jc+engi as professions

Sandmail, 4p, quest cloak, 2 hand of animus 22210agi, 8001 mastery, 2538 hit, 2545 exp, 16973 haste, 4909 crit: value of 290952
Gaze, 4p, questcloak, fan+hand, 22364agi, 8168 mastery, 2532 hit, 2608 exp, 16458 haste, 5338 crit: value of 291517
Synapse, 4p, questcloak, fan+hand, 22209agi, 8127 mastery, 2536 hit, 2584 exp, 17070 haste, 5022 crit: value of 291684

Synapse seems to be the best

---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 06:03 AM ----------

Considering the 4p usually makes a sub 0.6% damage increase, I find this hard to believe. RPPM trinkets and the meta, along with PE/EM should be much larger reasons for haste > mastery. Keeping in mind they were actually fairly close at the beginning of the expansion.

yes the trinkets have a bigger impact, but without knowing if the OP actually has ToT trinkets in both slots (he stated that one of them isn't 522, but that could very well be a 510 bottle) all we know is that he is likely to have 1 RPPM trinket, no mention of the meta leads to assume that he doesn't have that either.

Given those conditions, the haste value takes a dent when losing 1 of the 2 known ToT based modifiers in his posession (out of the 4 possible). His gear level is about the same as an upgraded t14 heroic geared shaman had pre 5.2, and as the focus was on agi primary gem stat, with mastery being best 2ndary in that setting, granted pre EM-PM and UF change, my gues would be that his haste value doesn't overtake agi-mastery oriented gemming.

For anything but a gues, armory and sims hold the answer.

[Deleted]

522 ofcourse?