Its a lie that Blizzard cant make raids and 5 mans at the same time

[Alvito]

ICC also opened in gates giving them over a month to bug fix and do other things they didn't do this tier. They also added a ton of new quests 2 small zones as well as the hornets nest of issues LFR brings to the table that they didn't have then.

[runedhill]

You don't seem to take into consideration, they literally had more than double the developers when ICC was launched, than they were working on ToT.

[Conscious]

I always wondered why people who have no facts and know nothing at all about a subject feel they are entitled to publicly deficate on blizzard because they naturally assume Bliz is doing it wrong.

I don't get it, your guess is just as good as theirs, and you publicly "defecate" on others as well.

Stop calling the Kettle black, Mr. Pot.

[elderamy]

Considering that previously most patches had almost no content be besides raid/5 man

Anw look at the timeframes:

LK November 13, 2008 - rehash raid + 2 bosses +12 dungeons
Patch 3.1.0 14 April 2009 (ulduar) - awesome raid zone + 0 dungeons
Patch 3.2.0 4 August 2009 (TOC) - 2 rooms 5 bosses + 1 dungeon in the same room
Patch 3.3.0 8 December 2009 (ICC)- awesome raid zone + 3 dungeons


MOP September 25 - 3 raids, 12 bosses + world bosses, decent raid zones +6 dungeons + 3 reused dungeons + 9 challenge modes
Patch 5.1.0 27 November 2012
Patch 5.2.0 5 March 2013 - 3 raids, 12 bosses + world bosses, awesome raid zone
Patch 5.2.0 22 May 2013

So far I like it a lot more

not adding scenarios and a pretty epic zone leading to tot plus the

[Lucetia]

^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.

I love it when people take something they say and take it out of context. They said in order to make a nice big raid, currently they are unable to add 5 mans at the same time due to the resources it takes. Look at Dragon Soul for instance. We got 3 new 5 man's and how bad was Dragon Soul? Vast majority hated it.

Now as for your example "ICC had a raid and 3 mans and it was a good raid". They had been working on ICC since roughly before Ulduar was launched, but since they were so far ahead they didn't anticipate how quickly Ulduar would last so they had to take some resources there and made both ToC instances, which is probably hands down the worst two instances anyone will ever tell you. Had they made just ICC alone and took out the 5 mans then ToC would've probably been something way better than what it should've been.

So basically because they can't make both at the same time doesn't mean they can't. It just means that can't make both with excellent quality in a short period of time. Would you rather wait 3 months (6 since ToT launch) for a raid of Ulduar/ToT/ICC size? Or wait 6 months (9 months since ToT launch) just so you can get some 5 mans?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Well there's a few things you have to take into consideration:
1: The first tier of Wrath only had 2 new raids, both of which were 1 boss open areas, which gave more time for Ulduar.
2: ToC had only 2 areas, 1 of which can even be visited outside of the raid and is even used in a dungeon.

[Nibu]

And the Call of the Crusader patch suffered with it. Because they were focused on ICC.

Thread should've already ended here... on the 2nd post :-) This guys said it the best.

[DeadmanWalking]

I don't get it, your guess is just as good as theirs, and you publicly "defecate" on others as well.

Stop calling the Kettle black, Mr. Pot.

I'm not making any assumptions just to verify my jilted biased viewpoint. I quote the lead raid design from a podcast I listened to, I heard him say it, its a fact. I'm not here saying "Blizzard lies all the time" and not having any kind of proof to back up what I say. This entire thread exists because OP has no facts and doesn't really care to have any because it doesn't support his point of view. Its based off of assumptions. I've made no assumptions or guesses.

[Keile]

Basically what they really should have done was hired a team specifically for 5 mans whilst another team focused soley on Raids. This would allow the raids to be unaffected and 5mans to be released more frequently.

These should be just as important to story-telling as the raids themselves.

[melodramocracy]

There's a similar truism when dealing with cars, so I'll adjust it for the sake of this game:

Frequency
Quality
Quantity

Pick 2 attributes.

[Soulwind]

There's a similar truism when dealing with cars, so I'll adjust it for the sake of this game:

Frequency
Quality
Quantity

Pick 2 attributes.

And most games can only pick one...

[underdogba]

I think it's a big mistake for Blizzard to be talking like this officially to the general public.

It's not our problem how their development teams are structured and budgeted internally, players just care about the quality of the game. If they are concerned that we perceive a slip in quality, the correct response is to just improve it, rather than make excuses to the playerbase about the inside baseball of development.

They are just encouraging more criticism and conspiracy theories on their official forums by talking like this to the outside world, by just handing out a degree of validation to every whackjob armchair moron on the internet who cares to start threads talking about things they know nothing about.

[Doktor Faustus]

And the Call of the Crusader patch suffered with it. Because they were focused on ICC.

Indeed, we got that tiny-arsed raid whilst they were busy making all the ICC stuff.

Not to say they hadn't made some of it already, but meh.

[Mirishka]

^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.

I call bullshit on this pointless and misleading topic, because you obviously don't have a clue how their development process works.

Blizzard never said IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO DO BOTH BRO. They said that dungeons and raids compete in terms of development resources (you'd have to be a colossal idiot to not see how) and it either boils down to taking 2 months to make a big raid, or 2 months to make a smaller raid with some dungeons. In Throne's case they decided to go with a giant raid, the biggest by far since Ulduar, and for that I'm glad.

Take off your tinfoil hat. It was never a HUGE LIE, there is no conspiracy about 'do you want smaller raids and dungeons or do you want a huge raid'? Oh and comparing ICC to the raids now is a bit stupid, because ICC didn't have as many difficulties as Throne and nowhere near as many mechanics per boss (Arthas being the only notable exception). There are also more classes to balance raids around, more specs, more drops, more of everything. Not to mention the fact that they're cranking this stuff out faster than they ever have.

Thats another part of it. If they delay a patch to add dungeons on top of whatever else, then instead of people like you whining about YOU CAN TOO DO BOTH, YOU BIG LIARS, there's people pissing and moaning about the delay between patches. There's just no pleasing some people, as this uninformed topic proves.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the answer isn't the truth. Its called 'you don't always get your way' which is a concept most people get around the age of 6.

[Aquamonkey]

You don't seem to take into consideration, they literally had more than double the developers when ICC was launched, than they were working on ToT.

Source?

/10

[Mirishka]

You don't seem to take into consideration, they literally had more than double the developers when ICC was launched, than they were working on ToT.

This is 100% wrong. The team working on WoW now is the largest that its ever been, and thats from Activision/Blizzard. But I guess someone here will probably scream 'No it isn't! Its all some kind of whacked out conspiracy!' or some other, similar ignorance.

[Tuor]

^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.

And then they were unable to provide us with new content for a whole year, being the exception a tiny raid.

Whille i don't like, that fact is that they sometimes don't have the human resouces to do everithing. I wished they could.

[Ragashii]

^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.

I call bullshit too that they can't make a raid and a 5 man or two. What was their excuse for firelands? That raid was tiny and we only got a daily quest hub with it. At this point I would take updated 5 mans over new ones. Would've really liked the new RFC scenario to be a 5 man instead.

And for the people claiming that the Call of the Crusade patch suffered...I also call bullshit. In that patch we had a huge daily quest hub with tons to do outside of the raid. We got a new 5 man to gear up our alts as well. What a lot of people seem to forget was the huge debate that raged on the forums at the time. People were complaining that there was too much trash in Ulduar. So Ghostcrawler(back when he used to post on the forums) started to bounce around the idea of a raid with no trash. A lot of people were on board with the idea because they were sick of the trash in Ulduar. This was back when trash still respawned after 2 hours and if you had to call it on a certain trashy boss (freya) then you had to do all the trash again. So don't blame the dev team for ToC or ToGC because it's what the loud players wanted at the time. You can blame them for 4 lock outs though.

[Meatboll]

How exactly are the raids coming faster this expansion? Ulduar was released on Apr 14, 2009. 4 months later ToC was released on Aug 4, 2009. 4 months after that ICC was released on Dec 8, 2009. Both ToC and ICC had at least 1 dungeon to go with it. Raids for MoP opened in October 2012, and the next tier was released March 5, 2013 5 months later. No new dungeons have been added despite the team being bigger than ever as they have said.

Also patch 3.1 and 3.2 had daily hubs at the ToC tournament grounds.

[Aquamonkey]

I call bullshit too that they can't make a raid and a 5 man or two. What was their excuse for firelands? That raid was tiny and we only got a daily quest hub with it. At this point I would take updated 5 mans over new ones. Would've really liked the new RFC scenario to be a 5 man instead.

They were redoing ZA/ZG and also a whole other raid in Vashj'ir. The raids were taking longer than expected, so the 5mans were released on their own in 4.1. Then they scrapped the water raid after dumping a lot of resources into it.