Why is Shape-Shifting Free?

[Deleted]

Yes, it is a very big deal because all other core abilities on classes have cool downs or incur high costs.

1.) Charge is a core warrior mechanic that is free, but it has a cool down.

2.) Rogues have stealth as a core mechanic, but you have to be out of combat and it also has a cool down.

3.) Mages have blink as a core mechanic which also has a cool down.

4.) Druids have shape-shift which is powerful, yet has almost no cost and no cool down...wtf???

@OP: Seriously? Shifting is the core essence of being a druid and the thing you compare it to shows you have no clue about classes. Its all Pasive while the ones you wrote are active stuff....

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 04:58 PM ----------

CC is fine now

No its not... there is way toooooooo much cc....look how much instant cc druids have compared to priest/warriors/rogue/etc...

[Flaks]

Yes , it is not game breaking when the class was designed with that mechanic from the start. Do you not wonder why it was given back to ferals? Because without it they were broke.

First part is right. Everything else is wrong. Ferals were given this mechanic back in Vanilla. A mechanic that made up for their piss poor damage and survivability. They now have ALL of that and more. They have everything that every other class has as well. They have the most potent melee CC in the game. They have amazing surivability, WAY WAY over the top mobility (they never EVER needed a slow let alone TWO charges on top of power-shifting) and great burst. No, in the current game they absolutely DO NOT need snare/root break on power-shifting with no cost/cd. YES it is absolutely game-breaking in it's current iteration.

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 05:37 PM ----------

Cause it's not a powerful ability at all. If you want it to have a high cost then have DKs shifting presence require 50 RP, hunters shifting aspects require 50 focus, warriors shifting stances require 50 rage, mage armours to cost 50% of your mana.

Breaking snares isn't a big deal at all...

LOL! Switching presences drains ALL of your RP. Switching stances to defensive stance GUTS your rage generation effectively making your damage dealing ability absolutely useless. And hunters are a completely different cup of tea now that they really don't have to switch aspects. But guess what? If they DO switch aspects (which can only really be to aspect of the cheetah) they open themselves up to being auto-snared.

[Pol-Kinabol]

Shapeshifting cost a GCD *NOTE: shapeshifting into a form cost a GCD, outside of it doesn't*, a GCD you could've used on a CC, or a heal. You have to make a choice, heal yourself or un-snare/root yourself, sometimes using a shapeshift to clear a root/snare MIGHT result in 30-40% of your HP going away. I remember some average/good frost DKs with the CoI immobilizing talent + the frost fever slowing, they weretiming their grip/chains so you really have to shapeshift almost 24/7 while they are beating the crap out on you with those 150k+ obliterate crits on my poor druid in cat form (which has the least armor of all healers if you didn't know, even priests with inner fire got like 10% more armor %...)

[Mizzow]

Seeing a CD put on Form changing would be quite interesting

[Kralljin]

Shapeshifting cost a GCD, a GCD you could've used on a CC, or a heal. You have to make a choice, heal yourself or un-snare/root

Because this discussion is mainly centers around Resto druid being able to remove roots?

Resto & Balance are not the main issue here, it's feral that can remove any snare / root as Melee.

And if you just mindlessly shapeshift out of any snare / root as healer, even if they don't limit your ability to heal / cc, then it's your own fault.

[Pol-Kinabol]

Because this discussion is mainly centers around Resto druid being able to remove roots?

Resto & Balance are not the main issue here, it's feral that can remove any snare / root as Melee.

And if you just mindlessly shapeshift out of any snare / root as healer, even if they don't limit your ability to heal / cc, then it's your own fault.

I play mainly a resto druid in PvP that's why I replied about them and not druids in general :P

[seije]

Yes, it is a very big deal because all other core abilities on classes have cool downs or incur high costs.

All classes are not the same. other classes have other tools that help them deal with the fact that they don't have as much uptime as a druid can.

1.) Charge is a core warrior mechanic that is free, but it has a cool down.

Warriors generally also have much higher burst, (a significant amount of druid damage comes from DoTs, which, due to their nature, are easier to heal through) and warriors can also break out of certain CCs that druids cannot, such as fear. charge is also a gap-closer, whereas druids must talent for theirs, and it's an inferior version of warrior charge/rogue shadowstep- and if they choose this talent, they're moving slower than they could with the swiftness talent, meaning they will have less uptime against smart players.

2.) Rogues have stealth as a core mechanic, but you have to be out of combat and it also has a cool down.

Rogues also have several ways to reset the fight, and they have more stuns/disorients. In order for a druid to use their blind equivalent, cyclone, they lose an extra GCD shifting back into their damage form, meaning 1.5 seconds of that short CC already goes to waste.

3.) Mages have blink as a core mechanic which also has a cool down.

Mages are also built around the ranged glass-cannon model. blink breaks stuns. paired with frost nova, blazing speed, and other defensive CDs, mages have plenty of escape options. pretending that blink is the only one is misleading. And even though 'chilled' and nova can be shifted out of, it still takes a GCD, and the druid isn't immune; which means they are slowed at least part time while they wait on the GCD,/ their own reaction time.

4.) Druids have shape-shift which is powerful, yet has almost no cost and no cool down...wtf???

Druids have been built around this idea since vanilla. In fact, they gave druids MORE immunities to their shapeshifts (immune to poly) because druids were in such a bad state in PvP. I realize it's not the same game any more, but that doesn't change the fact that blizz has been balancing around these abilities for almost the entirety of WoW. A cooldown on shifting would be game-breaking in PvE, and blizz already tried the 'expensive shifts' model during BC and Wrath. it was gamebreaking, and only resto druids could handle the insane shifting costs, which is what most people were complaining about at that point anyways.


Different class is different. Druids are fine. Learn to play.

[Kezotar]

Why can't I send free messages on my samsung to other samsungs, while on my Iphone I can send free messages to other Iphones. Simple. It's a different phone, and the same goes with the different classes.

[sandmoth12]

Seeing a CD put on Form changing would be quite interesting

I think a CD is stupid and would take away from the flavor of being a druid. Instead just make it cost a significant amount of mana. This way they can do it as many time they want without being limited by a GCD, but they will pay a price for it.

[Ielenia]

I think the OP is right. Shapeshifting should get a penalty for doing so. I thought, from lore perspective, that shapeshifting was exhausting druids. So what not add that in the game. What about a Haste rating and hit rating decrease of 35% lasting 60 seconds after shapeshifting into anything.

... Seriously? a 35% haste and hit rating decrease for a FULL MINUTE? Considering your signature I'm going to guess you're a hunter. How about bringing the old 'minimum 8 yards range' back for the hunters, then? Would be pretty interesting now that they can't wield melee weapons, huh?

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 06:46 PM ----------

Being able to stick to your target by losing a GCD is better than not being able to attack the target at all.

Obviously shapeshifting is a dps loss but it's by far better than just sitting in a root effect.

Not one GCD. But two global cooldowns. Remember, the druids need to shapeshift BACK into the form they were before, to continue dps'ing or healing properly.

[Terahertz]

Feral shapeshifting used to cost quite some mana and you couldn't shapeshift in and out 24/7 or you would oom yourself. They could have it work like the paladins root breaker: A moderate cost so you can't spam it 24/7.

[Ielenia]

Look even blues agree that free shifting everything is overpowered.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1496?page=2#25

Uhhh... no, he doesn't. He said it was OP before they removed it in Cataclysm. Then he said, and I quote:

I have to admit that I also have issues peeling ferals in Arena, even on my mage. I’m just not sure if it’s my lack of skill, if they counter my classes, or are actually op.

He openly admits that the fact he is having trouble against druids can really possibly be his own lack of skill, or if the other player knows how to play his class against other classes. NOWHERE in his post he states 'Druids' shifting is OP' as a fact. Stop distorting other peoples' words.

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 06:59 PM ----------

I don't think we can trust you. I think you have a vested interest in maintaining the illusion that the global cooldown is effective in this case.

People are saying the GCD is effective because, you know, it actually IS! Shifting out and back into form costs TWO Global Cooldowns. That's TWO global cooldowns you're not putting any pressure on your opponent, but he is still putting pressure on you!

[Trubo]

People are saying the GCD is effective because, you know, it actually IS! Shifting out and back into form costs TWO Global Cooldowns. That's TWO global cooldowns you're not putting any pressure on your opponent, but he is still putting pressure on you!

Actually you can double shift (e.g. go from shifted form to humanoid to shifted again) with one GCD but it requires a cancelaura macro if you're already in a shifted form due to unshifting out of a form not invoking the GCD.

[LTCrystallite]

It's not, you need to pay $14.99 a month.

[tenzing21]

...while a Druid would need to pop out of a form for spot heals.. Druid gameplay builds up damage over time and doesn't really have great burst potential. You deal damage by stacking buffs, dots or running a smooth rotation. That's the balance of Shapeshifting.

CPs are target-acquired, not form-dependent. And you can very definitely heal yourself in kitty. It's what makes playing feral dps possible.

[Deleted]

My only problem is that it's usable while silenced. Well at least Displacer Beast. I push my silence and start nuking him but i can't do nothing against druids blinking away outrange/out of LoS from me

That's too OP i guess.

[muto]

Resto Druid is the best 5.3 healer.

Until the Mage spellsteals all its HoTs.

[SodiumChloride]

I would have to agree it's BS.

Between the CDs on root abilities and DR. A zero cost, no CD and "unpreventable" (unlike Blink that you can prevent by just silencing the Mage) root break is just stupid. I don't care how it's a "classic core" ability, it's so broken it isn't funny.

[Trubo]

I would have to agree it's BS.

Between the CDs on root abilities and DR. A zero cost, no CD and "unpreventable" (unlike Blink that you can prevent by just silencing the Mage) root break is just stupid. I don't care how it's a "classic core" ability, it's so broken it isn't funny.

1-2 GCDs + 5.6%/3.7% base mana (Travel Form/Cat Form) isn't free of cost, especially for Feral or if you're powershifting to prevent death. As for "unpreventable", any stun will prevent you from shifting into a new form. Also, other than Hunter's root via spiders I can't think of a root effect that has a cd significant enough that prevents the ability from being spammed until fully DRed on its own.

[SodiumChloride]

1-2 GCDs + 5.6%/3.7% base mana (Travel Form/Cat Form) isn't free of cost, especially for Feral or if you're powershifting to prevent death. As for "unpreventable", any stun will prevent you from shifting into a new form. Also, other than Hunter's root via spiders I can't think of a root effect that has a cd significant enough that prevents the ability from being spammed until fully DRed on its own.

GCD is now a "cost" ... really? Just about ability in the game has a GCD! Calling it a cost is really stretching it.

Ferals totally need mana right?

So the only way to prevent a druid from breaking a root/snare is to cover it with another "full" CC? If you are going to stun the druid, WTF do you need the root for?