Roleplaying - as non-Pandaren Shado-Pan member.

[The Madgod]

B: You were simply a unique case. The Shado-pan have already proven that people can be inducted into their order despite not being raised into and not being pandaren.

So if the player avatar is a unique case, then how is it a realistic path for a character to take? I remind you, possible does not equate to plausible.

Do people even try using their brains anymore?

I'd keep the snark out of the discussion. Insulting people isn't going to lead anywhere nice.

At the mad god-

I didn't read much of your post (because it's a bad post), and I merely skimmed it.

Again, this is your warning about the rude comments.

When I said "you're not the one who lorically killed Arthas", I meant exactly that. Your roleplaying character didn't do any of the major achievements your player avatar did. I was OBVIOUSLY not just speaking of Arthas.

Okay.

The Shado-Pan thing is one of those things. You said it yourself, your induction into their ranks is a unique case. How many 'unique cases' can there be?

If you're going to sit there and whine and nit-pick every little nuance as to why a character just CAN'T work, then I have no more to say to you. You're clearly upset I have presented a perfectly reasonable and plausible backstory and you're just going nanners, saying "NO IT CAN'T WORK WHY WOULDN'T THE PANDAREN JUST SEND OUT SOME OF THEIR OWN NO NO NO NO IT'S NOT POSSIBLE" and that's getting nobody anywhere. We get it, you're mad that someone is doing something you don't like regardless of whether or not it's plausible.

And this is exactly what I meant. Instead of arguing against my points you dodge and just attack my character.

I'm not even discussing why you couldn't play that character. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying its implausible and that such should be something to consider when making a character. Because realism is nice for RP. Concepts are fine, concepts are dandy, but for an immersive experience you need realism and plausibility. You can't truly enjoy a story where everyone can do everything. There needs to be boundaries. This is just one of them.

Also, just because you come for advice doesn't mean you're somehow locked into following it. I dunno what kind of mindset that is to have, but it's a pretty bad one. Good luck with it, I guess.

Obviously. However you come and say something, I'm going to debate it. You can't hide behind "Well nobody has to listen to either of us so it doesn't matter."

[ImportantLoreInformation]

Actually, I CAN 'hide' (as if that's what I'm doing) behind "nobody has to listen to us so at the very end, it doesn't truly matter what either of us think". It's the truth, sorry if it hurts, little fella.

I'll call your bad posts bad because they're bad. Threaten me with the wrath of "imma mod i banz u" if you want, it won't stop me.

Why does the Shado-pan have to be one of those things? Who says so? The game itself doesn't even expresently state anywhere "NO WAY CAN ANYONE ELSE EVER JOIN", except at first when the Shado-pan are suspicious of every outsider, including the outsider Pandaren. They grow over the course of the expansion and realize the other races are good allies.

Hence why we fight alongside them on the Isle of Thunder against the Thunder King, or why Taran "Hate's you all" Zhu praises the Horde in the Siege of Orgrimmar patch trailer.

It's no longer built as some "all exclusive" thing anymore and it's clear the Shado-pan both highly respects the other races and recognizes their usefulness so it's not even slightly far fetched for a Troll to join and become some "away member".

I've give you plenty of good, valid reasons why this can work and the only one here who's disregarding things or "hiding behind stuff" is you and you alone.

I've made my argument, and it's much more solid than yours. I'm done here.

You bad poster, you!

- - - Updated - - -

Giving me an infraction isn't changing a thing. Seriously.

[The Madgod]

Why does the Shado-pan have to be one of those things? Who says so? The game itself doesn't even expresently state anywhere "NO WAY CAN ANYONE ELSE EVER JOIN", except at first when the Shado-pan are suspicious of every outsider, including the outsider Pandaren. They grow over the course of the expansion and realize the other races are good allies.

Because that's how it's been shown in the game. They're a small force largely made of Pandaren, led by a man who within the Siege of Orgrimmar has shown nothing but contempt for the outsiders. He calmed down by the time of Garrosh's dethroning but considering his character it's not too likely that expansion of the Shado-Pan to make it likely for non-pandaren to join is something he's considering to do at this point.

It's no longer built as some "all exclusive" thing anymore and it's clear the Shado-pan both highly respects the other races and recognizes their usefulness so it's not even slightly far fetched for a Troll to join and become some "away member".

And where did you get that? Working with does not mean "being a part of." They've not shown any changes to their structure. They're still that small, elite group of soldiers, bound to defend Pandaria from all threats.

I've give you plenty of good, valid reasons why this can work and the only one here who's disregarding things or "hiding behind stuff" is you and you alone.

And for every "good and valid" reason I've dismissed it on account of plausibility. You're talking possibility. Prove to me it's plausible. Prove to me that it's likely that THIS guy's character could take this path without being as unique a case as our avatars. They only recruit once every seven years, and even then they only take about 10 or so children to perform the trials. Where's your proof that their methods have changed? How many unique cases can there be?

I've made my argument, and it's much more solid than yours. I'm done here.

You've certainly made your argument. I don't think it's more solid than mine but that's obviously up to the eye of the beholder.

Ultimately we're arguing from two different philosophies. You're saying that possibility is all that matters, really. I'm coming from the perspective of realism and plausibility being very important parts of writing and storytelling. You can't dismiss them. Yes, it limits what you can do when you make a character in some ways, but it opens you up for great opportunities. It forces you to create a character which is interesting not because of their base background, but because of their deep personalities; their histories which can scarcely be copied by someone who uses a base concept like "faction" to determine their story. I've seen far more amazing characters by people who don't do anything special with them and stick to realism than I have with people who take something, anything, from lore, and just make a character based off that. I've seen countless demon hunters, sons and daughters of Arthas and Jaina and Alextrasza and Illidan and every other famous character in the games. It pales in comparison to a character who's story is one straight out of the Sea of faces; a glimmering pearl in an ocean of names and stories. A character being a shado-pan can have all those things, but I've found that those players who go for that sort of thing typically don't focus enough on the character, as much as their titles. Ultimately it's simply an unrealistic choice of occupation. That breaks immersion, which in turn weakens the strength of the story.

[ImportantLoreInformation]

I, again, didn't read much of your last paragraph. I stopped when you just blindly started claiming I only care about possibility and not plausibility.

If you choose to ignore the points I have brought up and if you choose to ignore the in-game examples of why this RP is plausible, then you're not worth talking to.

[The Madgod]

If you choose to ignore the points I have brought up and if you choose to ignore the in-game examples of why this RP is plausible, then you're not worth talking to.

Care to show me exactly where those examples are? I've asked you plenty of times to show your sources. You've ignored each of those times.

You've said that their organization has changed so it's more likely for someone outside of the pandaren to join. Show it. Show me that it's plausible for a troll, a random troll, to join the Shado-Pan. Despite the only time a non-pandaren has joined them was, as you admitted, a unique circumstance. This is the core of the argument, really, and you've not only argued against yourself here, you've given no real evidence to suggest that joining is now a likely possibility for an average troll.

Yeah, we've worked with them. They let up their distrust to a degree. As you've said though, a non-pandaren joining them was a unique case. Where's the evidence to the contrary now that the Siege of Orgrimmar is done?

I don't ignore your points. I simply don't acknowledge them as absolute fact and therefore I refute them.

[ImportantLoreInformation]

Care to show me exactly where those examples are? I've asked you plenty of times to show your sources. You've ignored each of those times.

You've said that their organization has changed so it's more likely for someone outside of the pandaren to join. Show it. Show me that it's plausible for a troll, a random troll, to join the Shado-Pan. Despite the only time a non-pandaren has joined them was, as you admitted, a unique circumstance.

Sigh. You're not worth it but I'll indulge one last time, if only to see you slap your meat-sticks you call arms together like an angry seal and claim up and down how I'm wrong still.

Example A: The Siege of Orgrimmar patch trailer.

A weaker example, but it gets the ball rolling. Taran Zhu remarks to Garrosh, "I have fought aside the Orc, Tauren, Trolls and others! They are nothing like you!"

He admits he has fought beside them- NOT just a single player character, but many people- and in comparing them to Garrosh, is nodding respect to them. He's admitting they're good people.

Example B: The entire Isle of Thunder.

This is an entire zone where the Shado-pan, once secretive and unwilling to work with the other races, are openly allowing Horde and Alliance to aid them DIRECTLY in fighting the Thunder King. The player avatar serves as an "example" to the Shado-pan, expressing that many of them are good. Even if this is an instance of the player avatar, it served to be an example of most of the rest of the Alliance/Horde. Taoshi remarks something like "They have become well known among our ranks, perhaps not all of the outsiders are so bad."

This example ends on a bit of a bad note with Taran Zhu; but he's not indicative of the entirety of the organization, despite being their leader. He scolds Jaina and Lor'thremar, telling them he can see why the Horde and Alliance are always fighting, because they constantly seek to one-up revenge each other, and that they need to end their fighting by just walking away.

Still, this example holds up on it's own. The Shado-pan are clearly comfortable at this point with the other races working directly with them; while this in of itself is not them endorsing the recruitment of the other races, it's showing they've opened up quite a bit and don't totally distrust and hate the outsiders which is a big step from the very first quests in the expansion.

Example C: The player character joins the Pandaren.

I can hear your short-sighted, ignorant reply being rage typed as I speak; but bear with me for a bit.

While it's the player character that is being inducted as a member, this CLEARLY AND BLATANTLY states that they are OPEN TOTALLY to other races joining. This DEBUNKS TOTALLY the argument that "other races can't join" and that "you have to be raised from birth". Whether or not this is an occurrence that can happen more often that just that one time is open for debate, but I think the rest of my points help to back up the fact that it is NOT implausible for others to join if they prove their worth.

It's, for sure, not something everyone should run around RPing as- even if they're likely to do it, anyways. My honest opinion for the OP would be to go for something totally different and not be another "this guy is a scarlet crusade knight" or "he's in the argent crusade" or "he's a member of the illidari" or something.

But that doesn't mean anything, really. The Shado-pan could still decide to mass recruit people and it would still fit in with the story we've been presented.

The Shado-pan serve, as I'm sure this went far above your head, as a story mechanism to express that the Pandaren, for as far as they have come, can still be petty and bigoted themselves which is what made the vulnerable to the Sha of Hate. The whole expansion is about how they can learn to see the good in the things of others and they don't take the actions of ignorant leaders or bad apples to be the common representation of an entire group of people. They've grown up through the expansion and have learned not only to trust the other races, but open their arms to them.

If you say "SHOW ME PROOF THERE'S NO PROOF OF THIS", then you are absolutely a hopeless fool with zero story comprehension. I am not going to track down every little trilobite of examples of proof of this, it is literally one of the major fucking themes of this expansion's storyline. I'm not explaining that the sky is really blue and I'm certainly not going to sit here and piss around to abate some guy who seems as if he hasn't even played this expansion at all.

But moving on.

Example D: Nowhere, anywhere, is it stated that ONLY Pandaren are aloud to join EVER.

This is where you fall flat yourself. You bitch that I don't have backed up information, yet you've tried throwing this point around a bunch as if you've had anymore proof than I have.

Anyways; while it's obvious that (at first) the Shado-pan don't want the outsiders to join them or have anything to do with them or their land this is only because they don't trust them as OUTSIDERS, not as non-Pandarian Pandaren. Race had little to do with it.

Nowhere does anyone state with long-term credibility "You can't join because you're not a pandaren" (Some off-the-road NPC may say this, but if they did, then it's likely they only said it pre-ToT and that, like I said, there was no long term credibility to the claim and it was just short-sighted hatred on the Shado-pan's part)

Going back to "the player joins them", they clearly have nothing against allowing others into their ranks so long as they've proven themselves. There's nothing stopping the OP from writing his character as something like;

"xxxKillbornexxx was a Troll of level-headed upbringing. When he ventured to Pandaria, the Shado-pan took note of his willingness to sort things out with the enemy, and his calm nature regarding combat. When the Shado-pan worked with him in the Dread Wastes they also took note of his un-molded, yet incredible martial prowess. Resolving that he was a viable candidate and perfect for upcoming Shado-pan plans, they extended an offer to join their services, which xxxKillbornexxx accepted. They have since trained him in the art of the Monk and have sent him back to the mainlands of Azeroth to secure the Pandaren border from overseas, while keeping their main force in Pandaria. xxxKillbornexxx is the perfect agent for the task, as he is familiar with the mainlands of the world, where the other Shado-pan are best served in the lands they themselves know best."

There you go. Nothing even slightly implausible about that, and it's just a condensed bio.

I've proven my point more than enough. We're done here.

- - - Updated - - -

To add: I never -insisted- it was a unique occurrence for an outsider to join; just that it's a unique occurrence for the player avatar, as in, only one player avatar joined the Shado-pan in that manner, and not all of them (you should get what I'm trying to say). I never said it was unique that anyone at all could join in other ways, but it's cripplingly obvious you lack reading comprehension so I am not surprised I find myself explaining this.

[The Madgod]

Example A: The Siege of Orgrimmar patch trailer.

So where did he say that they were Shado-Pan?

Alliance fought aside the Horde during the Wrathgate event. Doesn't mean the two factions were one and the same.

Example B: The entire Isle of Thunder.

I say again, working with does not mean that they are of the same organization.

Example C: The player character joins the Pandaren.

No shit. Where's it say that they mass recruit? You've said it yourself, the player joining them is a unique event. Where's that change?

Example D: Nowhere, anywhere, is it stated that ONLY Pandaren are aloud to join EVER.

And nowhere, anywhere, have I stated that as a part of my argument.

There you go. Nothing even slightly implausible about that, and it's just a condensed bio.

Nothing implausible except he was one of the few people chosen out of hundreds of thousands to join the Shado-Pan. Just like how he could have been one of the few people out of the hundreds of thousands who killed Arthas.

Since there's no real evidence that the shado-pan mass-recruit, they're an exclusive faction. Not on the basis of race, simply on number of bodies. There's a lot of bodies out there who'd want in. What's the chance that this guy got that one?

Really the logic here is the same used to say that nobody should be allowed to say they killed a unique NPC. If it's an exclusive thing that everyone can write themselves into, we lose the immersion of that group being exclusive, hence, nobody should really say they joined simply because it ruins the experience.

Any RP community which is fairly serious about it will tell you the same thing. This isn't me talking, this is me simply relaying the standard.

I've proven my point more than enough. We're done here.

Well, that's a shame. I was looking forward to you going around my points again.

To add: I never -insisted- it was a unique occurrence for an outsider to join; just that it's a unique occurrence for the player avatar, as in, only one player avatar joined the Shado-pan in that manner, and not all of them (you should get what I'm trying to say). I never said it was unique that anyone at all could join in other ways.

What other ways are there than joining as a child or as a special occasion?

I would be more inclined to believe your arguments if we saw some actual evidence that what we saw during the rep grind wasn't a unique occurrence. The only time you'll see a troll, an orc, a tauren, or any other race with Shado-pan regalia is when it's on a player. There's no in-game evidence that this is any different from a storytelling perspective than when Aessina blesses you in Hyjal.

Call me conservative, but that's really the long and short of it. There aren't any non-pandaren Shado-Pan in-game that aren't the player and the chain of events is very much a "Player's only" sort of deal. Just like Hyjal, just like Townlong Steppes, just like Kun-lai, just like Westfall, just like Silverpine, just like the Barrens. Just like basically everything we do.

Like I said, it's one of the troubles of the game's storytelling, for a roleplayer. What you do on your character should be looked at with a pinch of salt, or bucket's worth, in some cases. This is just another of those almost countless scenarios.

[ImportantLoreInformation]

Ugh, look. I give up. You're just a dumbass.

My points, by themselves, aren't meant to prove everything. That's why I posted them all together as examples (in fact, I even mentioned my first one was weaker, but way to pluck that out of the quote LOL)

Put together and looked up, they add up with each other and while none of them specifically state "the Shado-pan is open to anyone!" they do add up to saying, basically "It's a plausible and possible situation for others to end up in the Shado-pan"

Also it's adorable you use the Wrathgate as a means to discredit my point; when we both know (or at least I know, because I'm not an angry kid who ignores stuff to serve his own purposes, I dunno about you) that the Wrathgate was working perfectly and the Horde and Alliance were actually quite close until the fateful Forsaken surprise treason. IF the Wrathgate went good- hell, if it went GREAT and the rogue Forsaken bombed just Arthas and made him an easy target for the mass of troops to kill and the war ended there- who's the say the two factions wouldn't be practically friends afterwords? The Wrathgate is a unique situation because it ended badly from the actions of a few rogue Forsaken.

In fact it's funny because it really ties into the Shado-pan. Do you account the actions of a few to represent the whole? I'm not exactly asking YOU this, I'm just bringing up a funny point that sort of connects the two in a general theme.

MOVING ON from the Wrathgate thing-

I also never stated you stated that other races were said to absolutely be disallowed from joining the Shado-pan; it was merely an example of mine I was using to enforce my general point.

You asked me to provide evidence, and when I provide points that, taken all together, leave a very strong, if still a little ambiguous, opening to writing a character who joined the Shado-pan; you simply piss all over and try tearing down the examples one by one as if the point of them was to serve as one by one examples (which they weren't)

(Also lol that was a big run on sentence)

I know you'll just pull the infraction card on this; but as I said, I do not care. You're behaving like a raging little dumbass so I'm not going to treat you as anything other.

I've proven my point, whether or not some little poopy jerk like you finds it good enough for his insanely biased standards doesn't matter. Infract my post and go on being wrong. Have a nice day.

[The Madgod]

You asked me to provide evidence, and when I provide points that, taken all together, leave a very strong, if still a little ambiguous, opening to writing a character who joined the Shado-pan; you simply piss all over and try tearing down the examples one by one as if the point of them was to serve as one by one examples (which they weren't)

You've provided me evidence that the Shado-Pan would be willing to allow non-pandaren in.

That's not really the discussion I'm having though. I'm well aware that they would allow non-pandaren to join

You haven't provided me evidence that suggests that they are no longer exclusive. That's where I'm coming from. The Shado-Pan aren't like the Argent Crusade, who openly recruit. They only recruit once every seven years, and only 10 or so people at a time. Or for a special occasion, like how the player is inducted into their ranks.

I am simply using the same logic that is used by the people who say you can't claim to have killed Arthas or any other unique NPC. Realistically only a select few would be allowed in, regardless of race. What's to stop the paradox of hundreds of thousand potential Shado-Pan members, when the reality of the organization is that they don't work at that scale?

[ImportantLoreInformation]

I've provided evidence they ARE no longer exclusive, though it's in the form of the player avatar. Even if that's a (so far) unique instance; it's still an example that other races are allowed to join, and it's not really like killing Arthas. It's not something that can ONLY happen once. Arthas can't die to someone and then be killed by someone else; that makes no sense. Vul'jin (probably wouldn't) have more than one inside agent.

It's not the logic that the player avatar is the one who does it as much as it is the logic that the situation is something that can, literally, only happen once and it's unfair for one player to run around saying IM THE 1 WHO KILLED THE LITCH MAN LOLOLOLOL.

Joining the Shado-pan in that quest is comparable to killing Arthas in the sense it was the player avatar that did it; it is completely different in the sense that it's something that can happen more than once.

Anyways;

The other evidence I have provided expresses the Shado-pan are both willing and wanting to work with the other races. As I SAID, this doesn't mean- by itself- that they're openly recruiting, but what it DOES mean is that it opens a plausible door to create a situation where your RP character was invited to join them- as I gave an example of.

For as much proof as there is for the Pandaren allowing someone to join, there is just as much that says they would never do it outside one occasion. It's ambiguous and open to interpretation either way.

[The Madgod]

I've provided evidence they ARE no longer exclusive, though it's in the form of the player avatar. Even if that's a (so far) unique instance; it's still an example that other races are allowed to join, and it's not really like killing Arthas. It's not something that can ONLY happen once. Arthas can't die to someone and then be killed by someone else; that makes no sense. Vul'jin (probably wouldn't) have more than one inside agent.

I'm not talking about racial exclusivity, but numerical exclusivity. It's the same principle in that respect.

Plus, I'm not arguing that the Shado-Pan literally recruited only one outsider. I'm simply saying that it was a fairly unique thing, for the player to join. It wouldn't necessarily be common practice. I don't think they'd be "one and done"... simply that there's a limited number of people that they would recruit, regardless of race.

It's not the logic that the player avatar is the one who does it as much as it is the logic that the situation is something that can, literally, only happen once and it's unfair for one player to run around saying IM THE 1 WHO KILLED THE LITCH MAN LOLOLOLOL.

Joining the Shado-pan in that quest is comparable to killing Arthas in the sense it was the player avatar that did it; it is completely different in the sense that it's something that can happen more than once.

Whether you can have multiple occurrences is irrelevant, as Arthas was killed by a group of people. Let me put it this way:

Y number of player characters. X number of people to have participated in killing Arthas.

Y number of player characters. X number of people that the Shado-Pan are going to recruit.

That's the comparison I'm making and that's the reality I am trying to convey. While the Shado-Pan are probably recruiting more people than the number who killed Arthas, the general situation is the same: there are far more people who would want to join than there are slots to actually participate. Thus, how to deal with the inevitable paradox such would make? Don't encourage anyone to claim it.

The other evidence I have provided expresses the Shado-pan are both willing and wanting to work with the other races. As I SAID, this doesn't mean- by itself- that they're openly recruiting, but what it DOES mean is that it opens a plausible door to create a situation where you RP character was invited to join them- as I gave an example of.

Which is exactly what I'm arguing against: Not the likelihood that your character would be allowed to join, but the likelihood that your character would be one of the few TO join.

[Immitis]

fighting alongside someone doesnt make you part of the same group as someone else.

theres nothing "chosen at birth" about anyone joining the shado pan they arent "chosen at birth" by some magical entity or birth mark they are inducted as a child and trained all their life the only known non pandaren shado pan is sunwalker descos baby and hes... a BABY. each expansion is 1 year so you are looking at 13 expansions before you can roleplay as a non pandaren shado pan and even then the likelyhood of you both A. being born on pandaria and B. your mother giving you up to the shado pan is incredibly small.

the shado pan are trained from childhood to suppress their emotions in order to fight the sha and defend pandaria.

the shado pan do not leave pandaria to go adventuring. your excuse that taran zhu "left" in soo does not mean shado pan are allowed to leave pandaria for long stretches of time, the shado pan are the military of pandaria they still have the threat of the leftover mogu, the saurok, the mantid, the yaungol, and any leftover zandalari to deal with any shado pan leaving pandaria to go out on an adventure would be kicked out, taran zhu left to pick up garrosh and he went right back home.

its literally not possible to be part of the shado pan, not even the player character would be allowed. thats just the way the shado pan work.

[ImportantLoreInformation]

I guess that's when you stop being petty and you just let people RP however they want. If someone makes a tasteless, self-serving role play of HE IS THE COOL ORC THAT FUCKS HOT PANDA BABES AND IS A SHADOPAN NINJA, then so be it.

People are going to make bad Roleplays anyways of any subject, the difference between a "good" RP and a "bad" one is that while they both may Roleplay as Shado-pan assassins, one will do it with tact and deep explanation and reasoning and the other will be doing it because they think transmorging the Shado-pan rep hat onto a blood elf is cool and unique.

If you just take all the "serious" and "good" roleplayers and put them together, you won't have that many people wanting to join the Shado-pan, many will want to branch out and do other things and that's what makes a few instances of well done Shado-pan roleplaying acceptable.

It's the same case. If someone deeply works in killing Arthas to their backstory; what's to stop them as long as they do it well? Because lots of dumb people will claim their RP character also killed Arthas?

Also I don't know why you have this mindset- but just because I mention something as a piece of evidence to my argument doesn't mean I'm insinuating you're saying it or have ever said it. I'm using it because it's a valid piece of evidence to the point I'm trying to make.

- - - Updated - - -

fighting alongside someone doesnt make you part of the same group as someone else.

theres nothing "chosen at birth" about anyone joining the shado pan they arent "chosen at birth" by some magical entity or birth mark they are inducted as a child and trained all their life the only known non pandaren shado pan is sunwalker descos baby and hes... a BABY. each expansion is 1 year so you are looking at 13 expansions before you can roleplay as a non pandaren shado pan and even then the likelyhood of you both A. being born on pandaria and B. your mother giving you up to the shado pan is incredibly small.

the shado pan are trained from childhood to suppress their emotions in order to fight the sha and defend pandaria.

the shado pan do not leave pandaria to go adventuring. your excuse that taran zhu "left" in soo does not mean shado pan are allowed to leave pandaria for long stretches of time, the shado pan are the military of pandaria they still have the threat of the leftover mogu, the saurok, the mantid, the yaungol, and any leftover zandalari to deal with any shado pan leaving pandaria to go out on an adventure would be kicked out, taran zhu left to pick up garrosh and he went right back home.

its literally not possible to be part of the shado pan, not even the player character would be allowed. thats just the way the shado pan work.

A cavalcade of ignorance.

Prevent yourself from referring to other posters in such a manner, please. Keep it civil and constructive, as well as mature.

[Venziir]

Nope. Just nope.

Maybe - and that's even stretching it - but MAYBE as an "honorary" member, but that's it really. And no, no Sha power stuff. Bad, very bad!

[Immitis]

A cavalcade of ignorance.

if you want to roleplay as things that dont exist thats fine. nobody is telling someone not to.

but dont complain when people tell you to fuck off and leave them alone because you are breaking lore.

[The Madgod]

I guess that's when you stop being petty and you just let people RP however they want. If someone makes a tasteless, self-serving role play of HE IS THE COOL ORC THAT FUCKS HOT PANDA BABES AND IS A SHADOPAN NINJA, then so be it.

Which is of course why I'm saying that in a thread about advice on whether a character of that sort is viable.

Like you said, it's ultimately up to them to decide whether or not to take my advice, but that doesn't mean it isn't warranted nor that it's wrong.

People are going to make bad Roleplays anyways of any subject, the difference between a "good" RP and a "bad" one is that while they both may Roleplay as Shado-pan assassins, one will do it with tact and deep explanation and reasoning and the other will be doing it because they think transmorging the Shado-pan rep hat onto a blood elf is cool and unique.

So instead of trying to keep the quality of the community to a higher standard we should let people do what they want? Sure, freedom is nice, but ultimately I'd say that trying to improve the quality of the experience will ultimately be better for everyone and that people have a lot of freedom in regards to character creation already. There's not too many significant restrictions on what they can and can't do. In fact, I'd say there's far more restrictions on what you can do with a character due to game mechanics than community restrictions.

If you just take all the "serious" and "good" roleplayers and put them together, you won't have that many people wanting to join the Shado-pan, many will want to branch out and do other things and that's what makes a few instances of well done Shado-pan roleplaying acceptable.

It's the same case. If someone deeply works in killing Arthas to their backstory; what's to stop them as long as they do it well? Because lots of dumb people will claim their RP character also killed Arthas?

Ultimately it's how the community functions. It's taboo for a reason. Rare occurrences of successful examples of people who can write out a Shado-Pan member / a demon hunter / someone who killed Arthas simply act as "evidence" that it's okay for everyone to do it. That lowers the overall quality of the RP experience and simply further justifies the taboo.

[Wildberry]

I'm just gonna tiptoe in here and ignore the one sided flame war, and give advice to the OP (Please Note: I am not part of any RP community, nor do I RP, I do, however, enjoy the lore)

I don't think it's the greatest idea. Mastering the Sha as a Shado-Pan would be like mastering being a Druid of the Flame, while working for the Guardians of Hyjal. Not to mention, while you certainly would want your character to be unique and enjoyable, RPing as someone who Masters the Sha AND is one of the few Non-Pandaren members of the Shado-Pan is treading into dangerous territory, the more unlikely things that your character has done, with the only justification being that "They're your character", you risk treading into the land of Mary-suedom, and no one wants to be there.

[Flutterguy]

Even if you could come up with an awesome backstory for managing to become a member of the Shado-Pan(Hey, a human became a ranger general in Quel'thalas after all.), the whole mastering sha energy stuff just would not fly. The Shado-Pan are an organization trained from a very young age until death to fight the sha in all of its manifestations. You would be a walking blasphemy in a very fanatical organization, one which you managed to join meaning you had to be a particular brand of popular fanatic to win them over.

Now, if you took your character to mastering sha energies and you became hunted by the Shado-Pan, that could be an interesting conflict.