Alterac Valley World PvP Zone, Stranbrad new South Shore, Celia Menethil. And more!

[Philosopino]

"MAP OF PROPOSED NEW ALTERAC"
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A few weeks ago I had made a thread about making changes to Alterac Valley here in MMO-champion.

And at one point I had proposed that they turn Wintersgrasp or Tol’barad into a “27/7” open BG. But some people had told me, that is a great idea but no body likes Wintersgrasp or Tol’barad and they would much rather have Old Alterac Valley for the same idea. Well without further a due this is my rendition of that idea and some of its effects and local refurnishing done to the area were adding the new PvP zone to.

Rules of new AV:

-All the rules of old AV back to its old Glory.
-No Reinforcements
-No Time limit
-Increase the health of bosses
-No flying mounts
-80 people per team limit.
-Fight goes until Boss dies
-Cross Realm to certain extents
-Resets every Tuesday
-If the battle is happening level 90 players a pacified to do anything against lowbies, Tarren Mill or Stranbrad.

Geographical Changes:
-Alterac Valley has been placed north of Alterac city, higher up the mountain.
-The several houses in the area has just been moved south on the shores closer to Dalaran..
-Stranbrad has been moved to make space for the Frostwolf part of A.V. and is now moved down closer to the river and slightly bigger in size.
-More blank mountains has been cleared near the hinterlands/alterac border to make space for Stranbrad.
-More blank mountains bordering Tirisfal and Western Plague lands replaced with sections of Alterac Valley.
-Dalaran crater is now as big as the actual city of Dalaran as it should be and has a layer of accessible sewers below it. Despite it being wider it doesn’t get much deeper. With this change some ruined building around the old crater are removed as they shouldn’t be there.

Is this change reasonable?

-Lore wise Alterac mountains is a a significantly bigger zone, which includes the whole of alterac valley and not just Alterac city. Thrall didn’t run up the mountain only to stop to an Ogre cave.
-Lore makes no mention of the Uplands which has been replaced with the Valley.
-Stranbrad was not in a winter area in WC3 and was a fairly large town bordering hillsbrad and andorhal.
-The buildings around Dalaran were supposed to be ruin buildings part of Dalaran city, but the city has been completely fix and the reason they are there is a horrible and senseless retcon. A barracks has been placed near the much bigger crater to represents dalarans left behind police force.
-Who needs more blank mountains??


New Stranbrad Plot line


Legend: a ! right next to a sentence is equivalent to one quest.

Stranbrad is a struggling town rebuilt near some of the most horde infested area, and also bandits and renegade cultist. Everyone thinks it is a bad idea to have rebuilt the town in the first place and are put on a short time eviction notice before a forsaken takeover. The people of Stranbrad are discourage and depressed with, arms crossed, fingers tapping and staring blankly with no thought. Despite this there are a few brave young souls for the loraeron revival movement., types that knock on door doors but their ideas are not entertained by the people, they are deemed as outcast children aren’t supposed to talk to. Despite the social distress in Stranbrad the people are given hope by the beautiful scene of the towns beautiful river valley in between of two large mountains and a pretty great view of the sky.

!There is a woman standing in the road near Stranbrad. Her children has been kidnapped by the local bandits she ask you for help as Stranbrad doesn’t have a militia of its own, this is an homage to Arthas quest in Warcraft 3.

!After that she introduces you to her father you is a farmer. He thanks you but his conversation is short just like everyone else in the town. You go around trying to help people in the quiet town !helping someone fix a fall,! Put up a job wanted sign for an inn !and fend off wolve’s from the farmers land. !After seeing you help the people of Stranbrad the womans dad opens up to you and compares you to the brave young lads which he feels sorry for that are for the lordaeron revival movement, he says describes that the problem is the peoples lack to make a decision and he wants you to speak to the mayor.

The player ask the mayor what the problem is, and the mayor says everything is fine and makes no mention of forsaken and the braves. You can see the blankness on his face as he twindle his thumbs, but you leave the town hall having to take his word for it.

When you walk out you see a forsaken envoy patrolling around town. No one seems to be doing anything about it so !you ask him a question. He says “Pack your stuff, pack your kids, pack your wife, no questions asked. Go.” ! You go back to the womans dad and he sighs and says that its true that this town is doomed.

The doors are closed and boxes are coming out. !You do some snooping around town and you notice all the brave young men are gone, without them the people have totally lost hope and are sure to be moving elsewhere. But you do notice someone had dropped their map and pamphlets which states “Alterac city, refugee for the lost”.

After a journey through a road surrounded by three ogre caves you enter the gates of a partially rebuilt Alterac city. Upon entering you notice a sanctuary and rainbow of refugee coming from many groups that’s been beaten before, Defias brotherhood, Twillights hammer, Arathor, Ogre Clans, Gnoll gnangs, Blackrock Clan, the Scarlet Crusade, Razorfen, the Silverhand, high elves, and the eagle tabard wearing Lordaeron. Though it’s a sanctuary the city takes on the character of a big pub where fights between people and gangs occasionally breaks out. The peace is kept only by a ruling council made up of the leaders of each gangs who trade and barter over justice in the town. After more snooping around !you find your Stranbrad refugees hiding in the basement of the barracks and their in trouble with the local bandits refugee gang.! After you save then you break up a few more fights instigated by the defias brotherhood and the twillights hammer. The braves take you to their new found leader to the town hall to witness the justice be brought to the defias gang and the twilights hammer gang. !After enter the hall of the council you immediately notice Celia Menethil as the ruler of the Lordaeron gang. The council get into a heated argument with one side siding with Celia and the other siding with the Twillights hammer.

!You get an opportunity to talk to Celia and she tells you that after a long adventure she has finally decided to come back and she’s finally made up her mind to leave her past behind (Arthas/Lordaeron/Etc.). She introduces you to the groups of people that are loyal to her, retired members of Silverhand putting back on their tabard, children of former lordaeron soldiers, a clan of high elves, even Ogre clans, Orc clans and Gnoll clans sided with her over the twillights hammer. All these groups went to Alterac because it’s a safe haven to make their headquarters in.
!The people who sided with Celia marched up to the middle of the town to meet up to the Defias brotherhood and the Twillights hammer. After a long battle, Celia is placed as Mayor of Alterac City

!With the Lordaeron revival finally successful, you come back with an army of Lordaeron and Silverhand soldiers and thrash several envoys of forsaken patrols. ! The forsaken is enraged at your actions and their wrath is imminent. A full blown attack is launched for Stranbrad with catapults and plague but Stranbrad is successful and Stranbrad becomes the first town fully pledged to Celia Menethil’s new Lordaeron.



Dalaran is as big a crater that it’ll ever be (now with the actual size of the city!) , but on the outskirts a Dalaran barracks is still busy defending it. The grass maybe starting to grow on the crater and signs that there was once a glorious city in there are fading. There are still several pipes open for view for the the old Dalaran sewers, there is still a level of sewers that rogue wizard groups and bandit groups seek to pillage of magical potions and artifacts, and magicians who try to use dalarans ley line to cast powerful spells. These pilgrims of degenerates camp out near on the outskirts and also on several Islands near Silverpine forest. This barracks is a new neutral daily quest hub.

[Sauredfangs]

I don't know why no one is responding, people don't know an interesting thread even if they see one. Comlpain threads with a repetative loop is far more easy to discuss i guess >.>

Nice effort though.

[serenka]

would love to see AV redisnged, not got time to read your post now, gonna check back later and read

[Philosopino]

I don't know why no one is responding, people don't know an interesting thread even if they see one. Comlpain threads with a repetative loop is far more easy to discuss i guess >.>

Nice effort though.

Idk I think it has something to do with the attitude that the best flattery is the best plot. Every one wants to throw in names, or concept that they feel excited for but hardly has dept and less context only a big "ooh look at this bad guy and feel amazed somehow" . I think atleast this the attitude blizzard took on when they made Cataclysm and that expansion was suppose to be their "people pleasing, your deepest nostalgia" and seeing the product of them trying to copy what ever I'm not surprised how shallow some characters turned out to be.

[serenka]

I don't know why no one is responding, people don't know an interesting thread even if they see one. Comlpain threads with a repetative loop is far more easy to discuss i guess >.>

Nice effort though.

agreed, maybe better in the PvP forum.


but i like the idea, two of my favorite memories in WoW are from old AV and old Wintergrasp at 80, amazing times. would love to see big outdoor PvP again. not ganking people while questing, a place where people who want to PvP go, and have large scale battles. its one of the things that would really get me interested in the game again, i like PvP, but i don't enjoy Arenas, and most AVs these days don't even have much PvP, its sad

[Terahertz]

I really like the idea of an open wpvp zone, but the only problem I see is that the zone will be completely empty on low populated/heavily dominated alliance or horde servers.

If they were ever to create such a zone, they would have to make it an open instanced zone like the brawlgar arena in orgrimmar. It's instanced with CRZ active so you see more people.

[serenka]

I really like the idea of an open wpvp zone, but the only problem I see is that the zone will be completely empty on low populated/heavily dominated alliance or horde servers.

If they were ever to create such a zone, they would have to make it an open instanced zone like the brawlgar arena in orgrimmar. It's instanced with CRZ active so you see more people.

yeah, CRZ is a must for this. they said server balance was part of the reason they changed WG, on some servers it was like 60 horde vs 3 alliance (my server ended up like this). but using CRZ is could try to balance the numbers out.

[Philosopino]

yeah, CRZ is a must for this. they said server balance was part of the reason they changed WG, on some servers it was like 60 horde vs 3 alliance (my server ended up like this). but using CRZ is could try to balance the numbers out.

Yes thank you for bringing that up . This totally wont function as an idea without Cross Realm Zones for many realms.

[Verdugo]

"Celia" is dead, wont work.

And should she even live, Kosak will make sure to kill off the last lordaeronian tumor.

[Baracuda]

We need an open world AV, not sure if it should go on for a week tho? Just until someone kills the enemy general And it needs to be CRZ to a certain degree, else it'd be dead on some servers.

[serenka]

We need an open world AV, not sure if it should go on for a week tho? Just until someone kills the enemy general And it needs to be CRZ to a certain degree, else it'd be dead on some servers.

yeah go on until enemy general dies, then maybe a while until reset, a few hours or something.

what would the reward be for winning though? just some honor/valor/justice?

also, whats your views on siege vehicles like WG?

[TheDangerZone]

The only way I like an alive Calia is if she walked away from everything, for ever. Not everyone with royal blood is a leader, and I prefer to believe that she has a family and a farm somewhere safe.

Frankly, bringing her back on such a leader quality would be an ass-pulled xenafication of a character that never had any agency to begin with. There are already badass female characters that deserve the spotlight, such as Lorna Crowley.

[Philosopino]

We need an open world AV, not sure if it should go on for a week tho? Just until someone kills the enemy general And it needs to be CRZ to a certain degree, else it'd be dead on some servers.

Yeah actually this is what I meant. The bosses are revived at tuesdays.

---------- Post added 2013-06-01 at 10:21 PM ----------

The only way I like an alive Calia is if she walked away from everything, for ever. Not everyone with royal blood is a leader, and I prefer to believe that she has a family and a farm somewhere safe.

Frankly, bringing her back on such a leader quality would be an ass-pulled xenafication of a character that never had any agency to begin with. There are already badass female characters that deserve the spotlight, such as Lorna Crowley.

No my friend, Celia isn't going to be half assed. Theres no specific expectations for her that she turns into grand leader with 50 seige engines on her back on an instant. My friend thats shit writting. Celia is just some lowly mayor of town of outcast and "by defacto" also ruler of Stranbrad cause the people in there want to be lordaeronian. And thats about its full extent. Even if Lordaeron is ever retained it would mostly be ruled by regeants and she'll just like a monarch in the sense that queen elizabeth is.

Also stories should be focused on actual plot mechanics and great themes, twist, and ideas rather than "who shall we cater to next? Alliance or Horde?" cause thats how it feels the writting in wow has been sometimes. I'd try to expand my little Stranbrad story but I dont think its appropriate for a thread like this.

So Celia doesn't really care much about the lordaeronian empire she just misses home, and has a bunch of loyalist sticking with her who calls themselves lordaeron. She is portrayed as careless, light hearted, playful and adventurous, she's nothing like Lorna.

But I agree with your point of not making mary sues.

[Kuntantee]

I would rather this rather than newer version of AV:

Huge pvp area open 7/27 two impenetrable main bases
-Rewarding daily-quests so area won't be empty
-PvP leaderbord. Your killing blows(or whatever it was in vanilla) scored in a server wide table(just like old pvp system) Title, and other vanity(item set like in challenge mode) rewards
-penetrable bases which will grant new daily quests and buffs(not that much effective buffs tho, like %5 haste etc.)
-Most importantly no aim other than killing enemy players and climbing in leaderbord.
-Also area has it's own unique currency gained by killing enemy players that can be used for buying pet/mount/items

[Philosopino]

Story speaking: the celia part isn't very crucial but I don't think that's it's impossible to portray her that way was just important that a lordaeron based alliance group was establish in the story I made cause it sort of had the moral "the brave and persistent will find a way somehow" originally I thought they would find some old silver handn paladins hanging out in Alterac city with hopes of old glory and they find some common grounds with the young braves and they end up helping Stranbrad. Either one works >.>

[TheDangerZone]

Yeah actually this is what I meant. The bosses are revived at tuesdays.

---------- Post added 2013-06-01 at 10:21 PM ----------



No my friend, Celia isn't going to be half assed. Theres no specific expectations for her that she turns into grand leader with 50 seige engines on her back on an instant. My friend thats shit writting. Celia is just some lowly mayor of town of outcast and "by defacto" also ruler of Stranbrad cause the people in there want to be lordaeronian. And thats about its full extent. Even if Lordaeron is ever retained it would mostly be ruled by regeants and she'll just like a monarch in the sense that queen elizabeth is.

Also stories should be focused on actual plot mechanics and great themes, twist, and ideas rather than "who shall we cater to next? Alliance or Horde?" cause thats how it feels the writting in wow has been sometimes. I'd try to expand my little Stranbrad story but I dont think its appropriate for a thread like this.

So Celia doesn't really care much about the lordaeronian empire she just misses home, and has a bunch of loyalist sticking with her who calls themselves lordaeron. She is portrayed as careless, light hearted, playful and adventurous, she's nothing like Lorna.

But I agree with your point of not making mary sues.

I see what you are saying, but besides my previous points, I do feel like perpetuating the Menethil wouldn't do any favors and that is time for a new start; i just don't see the point on trying to perpetuate a fallen kingdom. I mean, I don't see why the people of Stranbhad would want to be Lordaeronian after what Arthas did and what Lordaerons stands in for with the forsaken. Too many bad memories.

And this extends to Calia to me. I really don't think -if she lives- that her lineage is common knowledge, if she hasn't done anything for a decade, I think it's because she is in hiding/under an asumed identity.

I dunno, these Lordaeron revival ideas feel like a step backward. Lordaeron was the focus of Warcraft for 2 games, and then it fell, hard, and from it's ruins a new people rose. I think that as a kingdom Lordaeron is done, and it might me time, story-wise, for the human survivors to unite, but as a new entity.

PS: it's Calia, not Celia (tho Celia is a really pretty name)

[Philosopino]

I see what you are saying, but besides my previous points, I do feel like perpetuating the Menethil wouldn't do any favors and that is time for a new start; i just don't see the point on trying to perpetuate a fallen kingdom. I mean, I don't see why the people of Stranbhad would want to be Lordaeronian after what Arthas did and what Lordaerons stands in for with the forsaken. Too many bad memories.

And this extends to Calia to me. I really don't think -if she lives- that her lineage is common knowledge, if she hasn't done anything for a decade, I think it's because she is in hiding/under an asumed identity.

I dunno, these Lordaeron revival ideas feel like a step backward. Lordaeron was the focus of Warcraft for 2 games, and then it fell, hard, and from it's ruins a new people rose. I think that as a kingdom Lordaeron is done, and it might me time, story-wise, for the human survivors to unite, but as a new entity.

PS: it's Calia, not Celia (tho Celia is a really pretty name)

Haha Celia is a pretty name. Yeah I guess I do get what your saying cause everything in Warcraft is pretty much the next generation. Forsaken, Kor'krons, their not really Warcraft two stuff and Lordaeron's spent its history already. I guess the best thing to do is to have people from the old generation like old silver hand paladins or something and make teach the new generation to be as great. I really do wish they spend less time making gather 10 pork meat unless its crucial to the plot, like the main NPC is sick and you to feed him in order to revive for the journey and only if you really have to and the reason why you have to is already well explained in a previous quest and so on, but other than that they only need to maken uest thats helps portray the character and important of actions, events and characters, rather than spending so much time on random task they could use those quest for plot development.

[zanzan28]

Seems cool!

[Baracuda]

Yeah actually this is what I meant. The bosses are revived at tuesdays.

Still think that way's too uncommon. Alterac Valley could take less than an hour back in the day. This event should reset at least 2-3 times a week, if the boss has been killed. If not it would go on for the entire week.

[Philosopino]

Still think that way's too uncommon. Alterac Valley could take less than an hour back in the day. This event should reset at least 2-3 times a week, if the boss has been killed. If not it would go on for the entire week.

Well I don't know about that, I think it should definitely be designed so atleast it would last a day. But if it resets way too often it kind of defeats the purpose of it being an event and I'd hate to see people get over saturated with a loved content. But yeah twice a week would probably be fine.