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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAWRF View Post
    Yes there is, there is a massive difference. It is called an economy. High pop servers have a much better more balanced economy than low pop servers. And if you are stupid enough to think that doesn't matter then your opinions on the topic are invalid.
    Ok balanced economy may be a bit of an advantage, but I have been on a relatively low population server my whole WoW life, and I have done just fine - haven't missed this "balanced economy". If it is an "advantage", its not so huge an advantage that one can't live just fine without. I have still made dang good amounts of money at various times when I worked for it. Its not so big an advantage that player's on low pop realms need to QQ about all this stuff they are being deprived of.

    I still maintain the only big earthshattering difference between low and high pop realms is Organized Raid Oportunities. In my years playing WoW, I have found everything on my lower pop server I wanted at all except for that. If I wanted raid opportunities bad enough, I would have left the server by now too.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolliepop View Post
    Yeah, I really don't like crz. It has always been much more of an irritating inconvenience than anything else for me.
    I really don't like it at all, taken a nice server like Wyrmrest Accord and made it a wasteland with idiots from Moonguard. Used to be proud to actually go to Goldshire, didn't have to worry about the sleeze that turned other Goldshires into *Pornshires*, the inn had a nice atmosphere. Now its nothing but a severely over packed inn where half the people are in their shorts looking for cyberz.

    I wish they would get rid of cross realms...

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    Does it matter? It's not like they can 'steal your kill' in any of the games there. Afraid they take your fish?
    Darkmoon Rabbit, the arena (which I know I'll NEVER win now without bribing a large amount of people), annoying large amount of players on top of every questgiver, vendor, and even covering the gameplay area such as shooting targets and whack-a-gnoll. Also trying to do some of the profession monthlies (especially First Aid) is a friggen nightmare.

    It's just another annoyance that didn't need to happen. Fuck CRZ. It's stupid.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    I get it! The rich shouldn't have to work for anything because they're rich, eh? I think you'll all agree and sympathize with him eh? [Tiny fiddler anyone]. Hey, you could always pay a ridiculously large amount of gold to us poor players to go out and farm matts for you? I'm sure you'd find someone who would love the gold, if you want to be lazy. I see players on my servers asking for ridiculously large amounts of gold to buy vanity items such as mounts all the time. Why not offer them a bunch of gold to farm for you if you got the goods! Share the wealth, rich man LOL!
    The rich are the ones who suffer the least, they control the economies and are able to afford high-price, low-volume mats. The poor are the ones who suffer most, they are less able to farm on low-pop servers due to CRZ, and now prices for these mats will be even higher (due to smaller supply) so they are less able to afford shit.

    The winners on those low-pop realms, ironically, are the "barons" who controlled the economy in the first place, with lower volume of things posted (since your server's mats are being siphoned away thanks to CRZ), you can easily snipe the mats, and sell crafted goods at outrageous prices to the average peon.

    Perhaps that's why you're secretly so happy...?

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    I don't really think you understand the situation at all. Even if to assume that gold is "useful" on low pop realm, why would I go and farm mats to sell on top of the mats I already have to farm myself as there are barely any on AH? I already have too much things to farm than farm mats for "useful" gold which I already have enough to not worry about it for quite a time.

    How would gold help me to buy things which are simply not there on low pop server? Even if I'd make even more gold - those things (like low level mats or same Haunting Spirits) wouldn't magically appear out of nowhere.
    You see, as I said before, I am on a relatively low pop server, and I get that its extremely difficult to get Haunting Spirits. In a perfect world, these would be available from LFR gear, and maybe they eventually will be. However, there is a reason why they are not, and a reason why it doesn't bother me that much. You ready for this:

    Haunting Spirits are used to make "Raid Gear"! If you are a raider, you can farm Haunting Spirits to make it, and if you are not a raider, then you don't need them. If you're goal is to make shitloads of money, then that is a foolhearty way to try to do it on a low pop realm. Just get off your ass and compete and farm the many resources nodes around to sell for ridiculous profit on the AH. You said it was extremely lacking. If you're goal is to raid more, you probably are on the wrong server, and CRZ will certainly not help that - its not designed to help raiders.

    If you want to raid, then you are the one who needs to leave the server. You may not get any more access to nodes on a higher pop server due to CRZ, but you will find better raid opportunities. Once again, CRZ is not designed to help raiders. Its a tool to make life more pleasant for non-raiders on average, all across the board, regardless of population of your server.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    You must be crazy to say that - you just said that there's no resources on your ah in your realm. Sounds to me like there's a huuuuuuuge business opportunity! Farm the matts, and you will make a killing. If there's no competition on the ah, and rich people are compaing about not being able to buy the things they want - ding dong!!!! You can charge ridiculous amounts of gold for everything you get. You may have to work hard, just like if you were on a high population server, but resources spawn 24 - 7. Player's are just getting lazy because they can't stand a little competition. You have tons of gold, you have an excuse. What's the excuse of all the others on your server??? Low pop does not equal no pop.

    --- insert remaining drivel ---
    Basically, the winners are the ones with boatloads of time to put in for this "incredible business ding ding ding opportunity" you're chanting about.

    The losers are the casuals who have to suffer those outrageous prices. More farming "competition" ironically means less auction house competition keeping prices lower.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Right perhaps they don't know about CRZ and don't care, but when they are lagging out with overpopulated realms, zoning bugs, die to more stupid CRZ-based bugs, and are unable to complete simple quests, they leave the game, and don't post.

    Sub numbers have gone down, the "people have spoken." I predict if they continue this trend of CRZ'ing more and more places, more and more sub numbers will go down.
    These problems are fixable, can and will be fixed, and there is no indication that sub drops are in any way related to CRZ as most of them were in the eastern hemisphere of the world.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-02 at 11:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Basically, the winners are the ones with boatloads of time to put in for this "incredible business ding ding ding opportunity" you're chanting about.

    The losers are the casuals who have to suffer those outrageous prices. More farming "competition" ironically means less auction house competition keeping prices lower.
    Everyone has to work hard if they want to be rich, regardless of what size a server they come from.

    "The rich are the ones who suffer the least, they control the economies and are able to afford high-price, low-volume mats. The poor are the ones who suffer most, they are less able to farm on low-pop servers due to CRZ, and now prices for these mats will be even higher (due to smaller supply) so they are less able to afford shit."

    You can make a shitload of gold to afford the high priced mats if you work hard and spend the time to farm the mats you can farm, and you yourself charge the same shitload for your mats you sell. It all balances out. If you don't have or don't take the time to farm lots of mats, Low pop realms will no longer help you, in the same way high pop realms never helped its players from the beginning.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    These problems are fixable, can and will be fixed, and there is no indication that sub drops are in any way related to CRZ as most of them were in the eastern hemisphere of the world.
    We can say what we want, obviously there's no specific single reason for sub drops, but I can say that CRZ will mean more subscription drops over time. Ironically you're posting your drivel about "non-raiders" but IMO, raiders suffer the least. Aside from shitty and annoying lag problems that have not gone away since Day 1, I don't really suffer very much from CRZ. If I didn't raid, I'd probably quit the game. If CRZ got put in Pandaria, raiding would be the only reason I "might" not quit.


    And as I mentioned in that above paragraph, those problems haven't gone away entirely since Day 1. The point is, those problems did not exist before CRZ, and CRZ has had no positive impact for me, and few (but existing) negative impacts.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Basically, the winners are the ones with boatloads of time to put in for this "incredible business ding ding ding opportunity" you're chanting about.

    The losers are the casuals who have to suffer those outrageous prices. More farming "competition" ironically means less auction house competition keeping prices lower.
    Last time I checked, less auction house competition meant higher prices for stuff you sell. Law of supply and demand my friend, the less the supply is, the greater the demand, and thus the price. Therefore the people who put the work on will get better prices for their matts on low pop servers, and will therefore be able to afford the higher prices of mats they need but cant get for themselves. Low pop servers just need more people to realize that they are not in an ideal realm for raiding, and therefore should be spending their time on other things such as farming mats and selling on the AH. Then they need to understand that competition is not the end of the world if your not lazy.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    You can make a shitload of gold to afford the high priced mats if you work hard and spend the time to farm the mats you can farm, and you yourself charge the same shitload for your mats you sell. It all balances out. If you don't have or don't take the time to farm lots of mats, Low pop realms will no longer help you, in the same way high pop realms never helped its players from the beginning.
    Here's the previous logic:

    High Population - High competition for farming, high competition (and thus low prices) for auctions. Harder to get mats, but you can buy them for cheap (so say, you can do dailies instead and use the gold to buy mats in lieu of farming)

    Low Population - Lower competition for farming, low competition (so high prices) for auctions. You might have a miserable time buying mats, but you can always go spend a small amount of time farming them.

    Now, low population has high farming competition so you have to spend 3 times as long to farm half the mats, but you don't have the better prices to compensate. You are in every way worse off than a high-pop server. Casual players (not barons) basically barely have enough time to farm their own mats without the artificially increased competition, now they can't get their mats, and can't buy them either.

  11. #271
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    It makes me almost want to roll PvP just to bust some faces in the wilds there.
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  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    We can say what we want, obviously there's no specific single reason for sub drops, but I can say that CRZ will mean more subscription drops over time.
    "But I can say..." - How can you say? I have seen no evidence from you to support this claim. Maybe the vast majority of players either will not care or will like the CRZ, and only a small percentage of qqers will not.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    "But I can say..." - How can you say? I have seen no evidence from you to support this claim. Maybe the vast majority of players either will not care or will like the CRZ, and only a small percentage of qqers will not.
    There's very little actual benefit to CRZ besides an illusion of "more players," and many of the harms I mentioned (lag, impossibility to complete even low level quests, and increased barriers to increase) do affect newer players; in fact, a lot of the shit it's caused affect newer players the most. Established players while inconvenienced (CRZ is an inconvenience) are more able to cope with it (and notice that even the biggest CRZ drooling fanboys always use the phrase "you need to cope" meaning that they are acknowledging the inconvenience does in fact exist); newer players are more likely to just quit.

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Here's the previous logic:

    High Population - High competition for farming, high competition (and thus low prices) for auctions. Harder to get mats, but you can buy them for cheap (so say, you can do dailies instead and use the gold to buy mats in lieu of farming)

    Low Population - Lower competition for farming, low competition (so high prices) for auctions. You might have a miserable time buying mats, but you can always go spend a small amount of time farming them.

    Now, low population has high farming competition so you have to spend 3 times as long to farm half the mats, but you don't have the better prices to compensate. You are in every way worse off than a high-pop server. Casual players (not barons) basically barely have enough time to farm their own mats without the artificially increased competition, now they can't get their mats, and can't buy them either.
    Ok, decent argument. So I can give that if you are an extremely busy (in rl) player, a lazy player (when it comes to lots of farming), a rich player wanting to buy things beyond his needs or desire to farm for himself, or a raider, you will probably be happier on a higher population realm. Perhaps, if you are one of those players, CRZ may be something that finally convinces you to change servers. However, for the rest of us, especially those who like to see lots of players around when we play, we can stay on low pop servers if we choose, rather than having to migrate to higher population servers to see this, when we have no interest in raiding and would rather have a more lucrative (i.e. less balanced) AH anyways.

    One other positive of CRZ, is if the 4 types of players above migrate away from low pop realms, maybe Blizzard will finally be forced to accept that some servers need to be shut down, and stop being so stubborn. If a realm is only being kept afloat by busy, lazy, and rich players, then it probably shouldn't exist anyways, as it really just takes up space in the WoW system. Maybe we can finally prune off some of these useless servers.


    Either way, CRZ changes the game. It doesn't ruin it. In the long run, resource availability will still be better across the board regardless of what size of server you're on. The world will also feel less empty, whether or not you chose to interact with the players from other realms.

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnio View Post
    The guys from blizzard are so stupid... ffs merge servers already ...


    They won't. Ghostcrawler doesnt want Stockholders to ask why subs have dropped so much as to nessecitate Server Merges. They opened way too many servers out of greed in the first place. We get to pay the price.

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    There's very little actual benefit to CRZ besides an illusion of "more players," and many of the harms I mentioned (lag, impossibility to complete even low level quests, and increased barriers to increase) do affect newer players; in fact, a lot of the shit it's caused affect newer players the most. Established players while inconvenienced (CRZ is an inconvenience) are more able to cope with it (and notice that even the biggest CRZ drooling fanboys always use the phrase "you need to cope" meaning that they are acknowledging the inconvenience does in fact exist); newer players are more likely to just quit.
    That is an opinion. I enjoy the benefits of players around me and the lack of emptiness. Why do people keep calling these players "illusions"? They are not illusions. They are real people/players like you and me, that are visiting and sharing your server for a while. No illusion whatsoever. You are free to interact with them in almost every way, to battletag them if you wish, and to do any content with them that you choose outside of current tier raiding and any higher level PVP from arena's and up. Stop calling them illusions just because you're not from you're server - its insulting and a type of bigotry.

    Finally, I don't find the CRZ a particular inconvenience, as it makes the game the way it is intended. I am no particular fanboy, and don't say "you need to cope". (I might say ahhhh, pooor youuuu sometimes however, to show some people how lazy and ridiculous they sound). Finally, I don't share your opinion that new players will be turned off by this - I think they will appreciate leveling with other players around them. I suggest they would be more turned off if they were all alone all the time.

    I still don't see any of your agruments as evidence that this will be a cause of subscription loss, outside of maybe yours and perhaps some others that share your opinion. I don't see any evidence that players like yourself are by any means any more than a small minority. I also don't see any reason to believe that the influx of new players who stay with the game because the world feels more populated will roughly equal out the ones who quit because they can't stand this idea. All these things need to be proven before I'll be so quick to accept your notion that CRZ will cause mass subscription loss in WoW!

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    They are real people/players like you and me, that are visiting and sharing your server for a while. No illusion whatsoever. You are free to interact with them in almost every way, to battletag them if you wish, and to do any content with them that you choose outside of current tier raiding and any higher level PVP from arena's and up. Stop calling them illusions just because you're not from you're server - its insulting and a type of bigotry.
    Right, "real people" are usually more of a pain in the ass than not. The big thing is the situations and circumstances in which you meet said peole. If Blizzard cared about you meeting "real people" they would increase the ability to form and join raids outside of LFR (in other words, making gearing/alts more accessible, so pugs become more accessible), as well as making LFR more friendly (either with disabling ways to troll, and also making the raid more conducive to groups - which, to an extent, they have done in MOP).

    An example of this: By making world bosses faction tag, I think they have actually (and ironically) made it easier for people to form groups. There is less venom from players to "wait for others" and less venom about "being lazy and asking for summons." By making loot LFR-style instead of a roll, loot drama in world boss-style groups is decreased and there's less reason for exclusion.

    Throwing more people into a traffic jam / amusement park line might be throwing more "real people" in, but they are still just in your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    All these things need to be proven before I'll be so quick to accept your notion that CRZ will cause mass subscription loss in WoW!
    I really don't care. Point is, the subscription loss is not only there but has accelerated since MOP. So really, the "burden of proof" that CRZ will cause players to stay is on you.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-06-03 at 05:53 AM.

  18. #278
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    So happy I got my rabbit before this. My server is already over populated, I can't even imagine competing for that damn pet now.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    Ok, decent argument. So I can give that if you are an extremely busy (in rl) player, a lazy player (when it comes to lots of farming), a rich player wanting to buy things beyond his needs or desire to farm for himself, or a raider, you will probably be happier on a higher population realm. Perhaps, if you are one of those players, CRZ may be something that finally convinces you to change servers. However, for the rest of us, especially those who like to see lots of players around when we play, we can stay on low pop servers if we choose, rather than having to migrate to higher population servers to see this, when we have no interest in raiding and would rather have a more lucrative (i.e. less balanced) AH anyways.
    What is lucrative on low pop AH? When you can't really buy anything except abundant Ghost Iron Ore and Green Tea Leaves no matter how much gold you have? When you can't go and farm low level mats due to CRZ and deficit on AH (poor levelers)? You can't raid properly, you can't do "achiev hunting", etc.

    And strangely enough, people don't play games to see other people, they play it, first of all, for it's gameplay. In MMO, 2nd main thing why people play - social interaction, which wasn't really helped by CRZ. Seeing random people out there doesn't really affect experience in any positive way, especially if it causes queues and waiting for respawns.

    And speaking of transfers. They are too expensive for p2p game, and it isn't like CRZ didn't taint higher pop realms. So if you aren't really into raiding (and MoP did it's best to make raiding not appealing), transfer isn't an option at all, leaving 2 other options: "bear with it" or "quit". WoW is on shaky ground right now, as there is no solid competitors currently, so many people stick with option "bear with it". WoW needs solid ground to hold on against competition. This would mean removal of world CRZ as first step to it.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Issalice View Post
    So happy I got my rabbit before this. My server is already over populated, I can't even imagine competing for that damn pet now.
    So am I; otherwise it'd be a looong day ahead of me!
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