Should you be able to see the content by doing absolutely nothing?

[Snes]

This is a game where you can see the content by doing nothing at all, do you find this acceptable? I am okay with casual players seeing the watered down LFR content, but should people be able to AFK (and essentially "beat" the PvE game until new content is released), and get gold and loot for it?

Here's a video experimenting with the idea of taking as much damage as possible and doing as little DPS as possible in order to get gear:


"Who else AFK in LFR?" thread:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post21329033

Are you happy with the state of the casual content?

[DrMcNinja]

I lol'd, then cried.... then was like 'Why am I even trying to raid?' and then cried myself to sleep

[Terahertz]

I commented on the video aswell as I will comment in this thread.

The current LFR system diminishes the drive of new, and even older players to start normal raiding. When I start raiding, it was back in cataclysm; Firelands and had a blast doing it. We wiped a couple of times and never could down Ragnaros, but I still had the feeling that I was progressing my character. I quit raiding when DS hit because I started to play on a different realm, but NEVER felt the drive to raid again. I raided like 1-2 weeks begin MoP on my MW monk, but the guild basically fell apart so I stopped again.

Now, further into the expansion I still have no incentive to raid. I do my LFRs on my mage (and soon my hunter) to up my ilvls a bit so I can continue the brawlers guild, but that's about it.

If there was no LFR or at least if it wasn't so easy, I'd go looking for a raiding guild (Which, if I wanted to look for now, I wouldn't find any anyways) because I'm motivated to continue the ranks of the brawler guild.

My current main's guild is "trying" to recruit people, but nobody even bothers anymore.

I used to be motivated to raid and see the content with my own eyes, which now I can. A lot. And very easy.

[melodramocracy]

LFR is just the continuation of the fact that there are players who have no problems being carried. You see it with purposeful underachievers in LFR, you see it in LFD, you see it in folks paying for arena wins, you see it in PUGs.

This isn't a game problem, it's a community problem. And it gets magnified xpac after xpac because Blizzard caters to it.

[blackblade]

What's stopping you from just getting to see all the content from a youtube video?

Why even pay 15$ a month if you're not going to play the game to some degree?

[Tziva]

I think you're begging the question.

Yes, some people exploit the system by AFKing through things, but that's not a design of the game, and it's not exclusive to WoW. In other games (or this one too), they might bot, or have a friend account share, or use a farming/power leveling/whatever service to do the same thing. As long as lazy people exist, there will always be people out there finding ways to game the system so they can put in as little effort as possible for rewards. This is a flaw of the players, not the game; WoW isn't designed with the intention that you can see the content with zero effort, and most of these contexts are violating rules of play.

(those people aren't the people who are interested in "seeing the content" anyway.)


It's not ideal, but I can't really think of any easy solutions that don't have unfortunate side effects. Blizzard put in a kicking system so we do have tools to handle it; anything more aggressive has the risk of being abused or inconvenient to legitimate players, or both.

[Sinndra]

i do wish there was a better vote kick system.. should be allowed to vote kick in combat, the timers are crazy.. cant kick for years after a fight.. the groups should be more proactive in sniffing out and removing trolls and AFK heroes. usually people just dont care enough to pay attention, but if you notice it and bring it to the raids attention, you might get the one or two bad appales to yell at you, but usually the silent majority will back you and help to vote kick. we just need better tools in place to deal with them during combat.

[Birkhoff]

You're naive if you think people run LFR every week just to see content.

Or you twisted the question to avoid the thread being closed

The proper question should be:

Should you be able to get epics by doing absolutely nothing?

Either way, the answer is no.

[whatthefudge]

First I voted Other, then couldn't think of an argument for other so I voted Yes.

Ultimately if some people want to play that way then well so be it, more power to them. I personally would never join an LFR or a dungeon and attempt to AFK my way to loot. I don't say that in a self-righteous way, but rather there just isn't any fun in doing that. But if that is what is fun for other people well it doesn't do anything to hinder my ability to enjoy the game. The only thing is if they're impacting and impairing my/the group's ability to complete the content then its up to the rest of the players to either straighten them out or remove them from the group with a vote.

[Belloc]

Absolutely! Everyone should be able to see the content by doing nothing. And they can! It's called Youtube!

Anyone that AFKs or does nothing but auto-attack should be automatically removed from LFR. At the very least, the system should point these people out and automatically initiate a vote-kick on them.

If someone isn't willing to actively participate in a boss fight, they don't need to be getting loot. There should be a system in place, aside from the current vote-kick system, to remove these players.

[DrMcNinja]

Absolutely! Everyone should be able to see the content by doing nothing. And they can! It's called Youtube!

Anyone that AFKs or does nothing but auto-attack should be automatically removed from LFR. At the very least, the system should point these people out and automatically initiate a vote-kick on them.

If someone isn't willing to actively participate in a boss fight, they don't need to be getting loot. There should be a system in place, aside from the current vote-kick system, to remove these players.

But, as sad as it may be, there are also those who underperform and never try better. Because they shouldn't. Or so the game allows them to play at that level, without giving them a reason to improve

[Shampro]

I just dont...understand. Why play A game and pay 15$ a month(even though is really not much at all) so you can afk? Why pay? someone explain that to me, why? Why have that type of mentality? And why would I want them in my Normal/Heroic content raid team? Its literally like paying for netflix or something of the sort to watch your favorite show but never actually use it, or pay any attention to it.

[Pull My Finger]

No, but you're questioning the existence of the entire feature because of a few rotten apples, and that doesn't make sense. LFR is a compromise, and full of compromises. It's just like faction tagging. Yes, there's some possibility of someone deliberately powering up your mob and then walking away, but overall, it's a relatively minor concern compared to the advantages of the system.

It's the same with afking in LFR. Single players can largely afk their way through it, yes, that's not so cool, but in order to let LFR meet its purpose, it's a comparably acceptable compromise they have to live with. You're overdramatizing it anyway, just like people on boards do all the time. People can't afk in LFR. Only single players can. Just as a 25 man normal difficulty raid can easily carry a few afk or bad players. The majority of players in LFR actually play the game. Also, it's not as if afking in LFR was this huge problem that can't be overcome. The rest of the group can easily opt to remove the rotten apple if his attitude proves detrimental to their progress.

[Enosh]

can I afk my way through a lfr run?
yes

will i have fun doing so?
no

so why should I afk?
the people I mostly see afk, ignoring the mechanics etc in LFR when I am doing it on my alts are normal and heroic raiders who think they are too cool for LFR, most LFR "raiders" usually try their best since it is a source of entertainment on top of a source of gear for them, while normals/hc raider they see it as just a source of gear

I also found the and I'm paraphrasing here, "lfr allows you to play when you want on your terms, normal/hc raids require you to play on a schedule, while having to be trial at a guild, who may or may not be dicks, obviously lfr is the problem" funny

[Drithien]

I selected "Other" because there is no way someone could do "nothing, at all" and see the content. Merely logging in, getting enough gear to be able to queue for a group or raid dungeon and doing so are doing something mother than nothing.

I think that depending on how good you are at a game you should be able to see as much content as you are capable of tackling in the game. It should not be a matter of time, but it should be a matter of performance. Otherwise the very nature of the concept of gaming is broken. A game is a riddle, that the player has to figure out, and as he comes ever closer to its solution, he gets faced with some additional, practical, challenges to overcome also; he/she knows what to do to win, but now he has to actually do it.

Performance comes from the need to be able to overcome the challenges posed by the game, to reach the solution at the end. That is what gaming is about: overcoming challenges. If you remove the aspect of challenge, you are left with a-going-through-the-notions activity. One where you just perform some tasks repeatedly, without much thought or attention, without the need to push your concentration or execution. Which may be familiar to people frequenting these forums, people performing shitty jobs and Facebook-gamers(!).

This devoid-of-excitement, interest, and in general any notable emotion, experience is what you get when you remove the riddle and the challenge from a game. Just some activities with no meaning or substance.

So a player should be pushed to get better at a game to be able to see its content. And the content should not be freely available. Not for some "elitistic" reason, but to preserve the actual value of gaming.

That being said, in World of WarCraft's case, the solution is neither on the current situation, which is reidiculously fan-servicing, nor in the solutions of the past, which were catering to a tiny minority only, who had abundance of time and a rotten attitude. The game should find a way to entice players to get better, while tutoring them on how to do so ("go visit x,y,z website is not an acceptable solution), and recognising their limitations, so as to have co0ntent that will be challenging for them.

[Snes]

One problem I'm noticing right now is scenarios are a bitch to get through when those people are in them. Windwalker monk whacks the boss a couple times and stands aside, AFK. Go to kick him and he just gets himself in combat, there's no winning. It has a bigger impact on smaller groups.

I think people who are trying in the game should have priority over those who don't.

[inboundpaper]

No, but people will try as hard as possible to get something for nothing, and there is not a lot Blizzard can do about it.

[Aquamonkey]

You can already see all the content without even paying. Go to Youtube or watch a stream.

[RoKPaNda]

The vast majority of the people that I saw AFKing in LFR were normal/heroic raiders that were only there because they had abusive guilds that forced them to LFR. A friend of mine is in a very serious raid guild, and he goes in to LFR and AFKs, when he's not AFK he's obnoxious in chat and quick to point out "bad players." I absolutely refuse to run LFR with him because I find his behavior to be disgusting and disrespectful. The last two times that I did run LFR with him however I immediately voted to kick him as soon as he went AFK, I will not encourage that behavior.

[Shampro]

No, but people will try as hard as possible to get something for nothing, and there is not a lot Blizzard can do about it.

Sadly, this applies to so many things in life nowdays, includeing other games obviously. Its actually kind of how people are....