League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft

[Fagatronics]

He can give his opinion on the best recipe for Sangria if he wants to. I'm just saying that the fact that he does the exact opposite of what he says is good game design makes his opinion worth less than a random forum poster.

Obviously he has an idea what he's talking about. He's a very important content designer for one of the biggest if not THE biggest games in the world. And in his facility as a content designer, he's made sure that there's absolutely no exclusive content at all in LoL. So his criticism of Blizzard has a "do as I say, not as I do" quality to it.

You have to stop this LoL and WoW comparison. It just doesn't work.

LoL never had exclusive content like WoW did. He's saying Blizz changed their philosophy from a few getting to see end game content (BC) to everyone getting to see it (Wrath). That's a severe change that has not happened in LoL.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Couldn't agree more with Morello!

[Deleted]

You have to stop this LoL and WoW comparison. It just doesn't work.

LoL never had exclusive content like WoW did. He's saying Blizz changed their philosophy from a few getting to see end game content (BC) to everyone getting to see it (Wrath). That's a severe change that has not happened in LoL.

And he's saying this change was bad, on the contrary WoW had its peak in WotlK, while excusivity almost didn't exist, so his opinion matters like what? zero? Yup.

[SamR]

You have to stop this LoL and WoW comparison. It just doesn't work.

LoL never had exclusive content like WoW did. He's saying Blizz changed their philosophy from a few getting to see end game content (BC) to everyone getting to see it (Wrath). That's a severe change that has not happened in LoL.

The title of this thread is "League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft" and I have to stop the LoL and WoW comparisons? A Lead Content Designer talks about someone else's content design and I shouldn't be pointing out what said Lead Content Designer has been designing?

LoL never had exclusive content and it's massively popular. All the other games that had exclusive content have shrunk to nothingness or died away. WoW has survived much better than other MMOs and has gone to great lengths to make content less exclusive. Makes you think that maybe exclusive content isn't a great idea these days, doesn't it?

[Revak]

"I'm saying I don't think raids should be inclusive, as the exclusivity of content creates a psychological trick in your brain that makes the game feel endless...."

That quote sums up my feelings of the game. The guild I was in during TBC could not get Kael down for a long time. We worked on him for months. But it was fun. We knew that when we finally did achieve it that Illidan was awaiting. That gave us something to strive for. The rep grinds/etc. were all part of it. We worked on them to better our toons so we could get closer to Black Temple. It was a group effort outside of raid nights as we were all motivated and excited to do it. We did not look at the BT guilds negatively. We strived to join them.

I've always played alts, even during TBC. But once that feeling left and we could see all content this became a game of alts and gear IMO. Instead of a cooperative MMO for raiding or getting my toon ready for raiding (IMO) it became a one player MMO for advancing all my toons regardless of raiding. Our guild has gone from 40+ strong in TBC to barely 10 raiders in MoP.

I am by no means all players, but this guy does say some of what I believe.

[Deleted]

I agree with Morello, TBC was the sweet spot, and the most fun I ever had in WoW.

[Deleted]

So if Waylon Jennings comments on a Cannibal Corpse record, it's a highly qualified opinion?

Yes. If you don't think it would then your a lost cause.

I agree with Morello, TBC was the sweet spot, and the most fun I ever had in WoW.

I ever had in any game I played.

[Henako]

How can a LoL "developer" be considered as one? LoL is a perfect copy of DotA without some things, they added next to nothing, how can be anything considered contents in that game? Moreover,how can a moba "content developer" talk about mmo contents?^^

You can't be serious. You've clearly never played either game.

[Deleted]

First I have to say, what he writes about "want" and "need" is right and he describes it very well (from his point of view). And I also think, he's right, when saying exclusiv content (aka raids) where a good thing in TBC. But(!) I disagree with his oppinion, that the TBC-model would work today. Times changed and so the mentality and experience of most players. Back in TBC (end of 2006-2008) there was simply no other MMORPG with such a high subscriber-number. There was just no alternative and noone expectet to clear current content if you were not member of an appropiate raiding guild.

But as said, times changed, other games were released, so why should I play WoW and doing PvE, when the only thing I can do is to go the same 5-men-heroics over and over and I'm just excluded from the major(!) PvE-content: raids, not even because I'm a bad player, but 'cause I simply cannot not progress at any means. Indeed, exclusiv content has the advantage of creating a mysterious atmosphere in the game; there's something you heard of, but you know, you will never know, what's really going on there. But if there is just nothing else you can do, this won't be enough to hold you.

As said before, players mentality changed over time, maybe it was accelerated by the new WotLK-raiddesign, but I think, without the changes in Wrath, WoW would not have over 8mio players anymore.

The problem is now, that people who wants to raid, can raid, but there is nothing they cannot reach, except for heroic mode, but even I have to admit, that lfr/nhc/hc is the same content-wise. Killing Lei Shen in LFR means you have cleared the content (okay, from time to time there is a heroic-only boss like Ra-Den/Sinestra/Algalon), so for you there is nothing you can achieve after this. To be honest, I don't see any solution for this problem ^^

If you would say in LoL you need an specific ELO/MMR (or whatever it is called, I'm just level 22, so I'm a LoL-noob ^^) to play 5vs5 would be the dead of this game. Making content exclusiv for "good" players mean, most players (as they are often bad) cannot play the games core-content. And today, if I'm not allowed (due to the lack of skill) to actually play a game, so why play it anyway and regarding WoW why the hell pay for it?

I think WoW is going the right way with MoP. Cata was just a bad expansion, only T11 and Ragnaros HC were good, rest of the raids, especially dragon soul was simply bad and there was really nothing else you can do. In MoP you have good raids (I would even say, ToT > Ulduar!) and so much more to do, for my taste a bit too much (as raiding consumes much time for me). But even if you're just going LFR, you can(!) do many other things like Brawler's Guild (really nice content), do dailys (I've heard, there are people who do not dislike them!), run challenge modes (I like them, too) or whatever...

[Deleted]

You can't be serious. You've clearly never played either game.

But I have, I got nearly 1000 hours on dota and I've played LoL too, not as much thought, since I don't like a gimped copy version with no denying.

[Fagatronics]

The title of this thread is "League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft" and I have to stop the LoL and WoW comparisons? A Lead Content Designer talks about someone else's content design and I shouldn't be pointing out what said Lead Content Designer has been designing?

LoL never had exclusive content and it's massively popular. All the other games that had exclusive content have shrunk to nothingness or died away. WoW has survived much better than other MMOs and has gone to great lengths to make content less exclusive. Makes you think that maybe exclusive content isn't a great idea these days, doesn't it?

*Sigh* I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. What I took away from his comments was that there was a dramatic shift in philosophy at Blizz from a minority seeing end game content to a majority. He thinks this was a a tough decision but a mistake.

WoW was a juggernaut in the MMO market back then and is still popular now. If WoW continued it's exclusivity we don't know how popular it would be today. Ultimately that argument doesn't really matter though.

I think attacking LoL for a lack of exclusivity and essentially calling Morello a hypocrite is a flawed argument. LoL's game design has never been about exclusivity. WoW's game design heavily revolved around exclusivity for many years and then abruptly changed. That's why I think comparing exclusivity with LoL and WoW is apples to oranges.

I'm not saying if Morello was in charge of WoW's development that it would be perfect; it could have been awful. But I think his opinion is a valid one. If you don't then that's fine too. But changing the argument from what he said about WoW to his game design in LoL is only deflecting and not a compelling argument.

[Pull My Finger]

So when one world leader has an opinion on another country then his opinions are invalid?

Thats right, your analogy goes both ways.

Uh ... it doesn't? Sorry, that's BS and hasn't got anything to do with my analogy.

[Deleted]

That's his opinion, but to compare a "Mostly PvE MMO" with a "Full PvP MOBA", I think that's kinda odd...

But I think his "everyone can't not see everything gives the feeling of a endless game" comment is quite....questionable....I mean, it's why I prefer more the current WoW than the old one...that just gives me the feeling WoW was not a game but a sort of "other life".

I mean, only few players could see most of WoW contains and the "majority" one (who couldn't make a raid for some reason) was just able to......dream?
To just droll on full epic character boots and Raid videos on Youtube?

I'm sorry but I think is kinda....weird and frustating...Especially after 2 years on Vanilla...
Don't get me wrong, I like when my games give me some challenges, I like gain rewards by myself, Godmod is fun ten minutes,etc.. but I continue to believe It's f***** game!! Not a virtual form of current life with constraints and hard choices...

But that's my opinion.

[Arhippa]

.. in WotlK, while excusivity almost didn't exist ..

I'm sorry, what?

[Icaras]

I think its a foolish opinion to think that any content in the game needs to feel "exclusive".

WoW is an MMO, not a secret university club like the Skulls. For every one man that feels warm and fuzzy from being part of "whatever it is that's exclusive", I can guarantee 10 others look inside from out, get pissed off, and leave.

[Taik]

I would not mind seeing Morello as part of the Blizzard dev team

[KrazyK923]

And you think flex raiding is going to stop this?

*pats head*

How cute.

Being a condescending dick aside, Blizzard is trying to fix the problem. Nowhere did I say this will fix everything.

[MathAddict]

I really disagree with the PoV that endgame raid content needs to be exclusionary.

The first MMO I ever played was final fantasy 11. Final Fantasy 11, back when the level cap was 75, made vanilla wow look like a diet-MMO or fat free MMO. Talk about exclusionary content, monsters on 21-24 hr respawn timers taking 18-35+ people to down on the fly. Massive raids with bosses that kill 80% of the raid using a 2-hour ability. That game was hardcore.

I was an above average player clearing 80% of the end game content. I really wanted to take on bosses like the jailer of love or absolute virtue; however, I had peaked. I was only ever going to be above average and not exceptional. I also did not have the time to put into the game that most exceptional players had. I was never going to down bosses like jailer of love or absolute virtue. Knowing I was never going to reach that level or join those guilds (linkshells) that were at such levels started to kill my passion for the game. Eventually, I just quit playing due to burnout of trying to get to that last bit of content I could not see.

People reach a plateau and they don't want to hone their skills anymore. For some, that plateau is heroic raiding, for others, it is dungeons. Most of us plateau between those two points. I think wow strikes a nice balance with 3 difficulties (soon to be 4). People should get some bang for their buck.

I always like to pose a question to my angst-filled guild mates. If development dollars/time allocation was based off of the percent of players that participated, how many raid tiers do you think would be put out per expansion? Based off of statements from blues, I would estimate that percent to be less than 15.

[adorich]

The game no longer has any logical carrot on a stick for players to chase.

This could be true. Wow has less of a journey than it once had, but putting the journey or "the carrot on the stick" back into Wow doesn't have to mean creating content only 1% of the community will access. People loved Vanilla because it was new and people loved BC because it released tons of content (zones, dungeons, raids, arena etc.). Saying, 'people loved vanilla or BC because they couldn't access content' makes no sense.

Mr. Morello is an expert on LOL, not Wow. Greg Street is an expert on Wow and I doubt he knows what Wow needs. If he did, Wow wouldn't be bleeding subs. Experts have opinions that are wrong and can make bad decisions. Being a lead designer doesn't make everything you say true.

[Srg56]

Well that's his perspective and that drives the philosophy behind his game, which is why I'm glad there are many games out there today appealing to different audiences. TBC was a sweetspot for me too, but I can never say this enough: I wouldn't go back. If WoW were still TBC, I simply wouldn't be playing. TBC was many years ago, all of us who played then are years older now, and for the most part the game has changed to reflect very well how its players have changed.

Speaking of long-term engagement, I've been playing since January of 2006, more than seven years. Many players have been playing even longer than that. So clearly the WoW teams design philosophy vis-a-vis long term engagement isn't wrong (at least not completely), it's just different, and different games will appeal to different players.

I would go back. I read the whole screenshot and he summarized everything i didn't know i needed. Now that i look back on TBC and vanilla the game DID seem huge and endless, every moment spent in it gave the impression that i was climbing huge stairs and when looking up, i saw the mists of the unknown and of huge potential adventure. I guess the lack of datamining helped allot as well. They should make datamining against the rules. This isn't an RTS or FPS, it's supposed to be a world of unknown.