League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft

[stumpy]

He has worked on Guild Wars, which certainly had exclusive content.

Where? Practically all of the "high-end" GW PvE content was the same missions over again, only harder.

[SamR]

He is a game designer. His opinion is valuable in regards of what might make games more fun or popular.

If you had to pick between letting someone design your RPG game:
a. Marine Biologist
b. Lead Dev of one of the most popular games and e-sports in the world

If it hadn't been for the fact that Ghostcrawler had some minor experience with game design through Age of Empires, Blizzard would've made themselves liable if they had hired him. It would've been ethically unsound to recruit a marine biologist over an experienced game designer for the job of ... game designer. But this reaches into business ethics and liability when the company loses profits or goes bankrupt and all that...

Either way. Morello is a subject matter expert, and people might want to disagree with that, but ... the simple question you need to ask yourself is simply how much more chance he would have at being hired over everyone else, due to his job experience. The balancing issues and stat mechanics of LoL are definately very applicable to class and encounter design for WoW. Morello also knows a thing or two about creating competitive gameplay... and in that light, for an MMO with a focus on PvE content, you need exclusivity to have any meaningful competivity. People in LFR just laugh at the 'idiots' doing hardmodes to see the exact same content and get the exact same looking gear nowadays...

Trying to make sense of this post.

I asked what makes Morello a subject matter expert on exclusive PvE content and it looks like your answer is because he has experience class-balancing a large PvP game?

I disagree, balancing a PvP MOBA game does not make Morello a subject matter expert on exclusive PvE content in a MMO.

I did not ask if Morello was qualified to be a content designer in a MMO. Of course he's qualified, he worked on GW1 and GW2(which do not have exclusive PvE content!!!). I asked what made him a subject matter expert on exclusive PvE content. Having a better resume than a marine biologist doesn't make someone a subject matter expert.

[stumpy]

He explained that he thought an mmo with exclusive PvE content worked better than one with mostly inclusive content... he explained his vision on game design. He is a subject matter expert in game design.

All you're pointing out is that he may not be a subject matter expert in -how- this exclusive PvE content should be designed, but that's not the topic at hand here. And even then, PvE content design is also part of game design still... and remember, he is a subject matter expert in game design. :P

brb, getting the devs of farmville and angry birds to offer their expert opinions on game design

[SamR]

He explained that he thought an mmo with exclusive PvE content worked better than one with mostly inclusive content... he explained his vision on game design. He is a subject matter expert in game design.

All you're pointing out is that he may not be a subject matter expert in -how- this exclusive PvE content should be designed, but that's not the topic at hand here.

Having a "vision" makes one a subject matter expert?

He was involved in content design for GW and GW2. Neither game has exclusive PvE content. Both games were designed opposite to this vision of his.

Hard to take a subject matter expert seriously when their actions are completely opposite their words.

[Posokhov]

He explained that he thought an mmo with exclusive PvE content worked better than one with mostly inclusive content... he explained his vision on game design. He is a subject matter expert in game design.

All you're pointing out is that he may not be a subject matter expert in -how- this exclusive PvE content should be designed, but that's not the topic at hand here. And even then, PvE content design is also part of game design still... and remember, he is a subject matter expert in game design. :P

He (Morello) was also previously involved in the creation of Guild Wars 1, so it isn't like he's a newbie to the MMORPG field either. He was there from GW1 to the start of GW2 (internal start, not launch obviously).

[Aquamonkey]

Having a "vision" makes one a subject matter expert?

He was involved in content design for GW and GW2. Neither game has exclusive PvE content. Both games were designed opposite to this vision of his.

Hard to take a subject matter expert seriously when their actions are completely opposite their words.

So you must not take GC seriously either because he agrees with a lot of what Morello said.

[stumpy]

I'm sure they'd have some very valuable insights on good game design too. What makes you think they wouldn't?

brb, asking a guy who's been working on world of warcraft for years to offer his expert opinion on game design

[Sniperpally]

Who is a PvE exclusivity subject matter expert? Besides GC, who, you know, agrees with Morello.

You can define who you're going to listen to so narrowly that only people who agree with you will meet that criteria, but its a problem with your reasoning not theirs.

[Sniperpally]

People just aren't being very courteous and respectful. It seems to stem more out of bad and unreasoned feelings that they prefer to discredit Morello's opinion.

If he -had- been part of a game with a lot of exclusive content, people probably would've used that as example to say: "And that game didn't even have 1/10th of the subscribers WoW has today."


So the fact that he didn't exactly have any experience with providing exclusive content games, makes his opinion all the more valuable...

I agree, people are just being arbitrary when choosing who they will or won't listen to. It would be better to just debate on the merits of the argument. All I ever see are attacks on Morello from people who disagree, but rarely such a well reasoned reply as what he started with.

[Deleted]

brb, getting the devs of farmville and angry birds to offer their expert opinions on game design

No, no, no an ex-marine biologist ex-age of empires designer (wow lead systems designer) and an (ex?)-lawyer (wow lead encounter designer) are much more qualified

[stumpy]

People just aren't being very courteous and respectful. It seems to stem more out of bad and unreasoned feelings that they prefer to discredit Morello's opinion.

If he -had- been part of a game with a lot of exclusive content, people probably would've used that as example to say: "And that game didn't even have 1/10th of the subscribers WoW has today."

So the fact that he didn't exactly have any experience with providing exclusive content games, makes his opinion all the more valuable...

Nah, you don't actually have any interest or faith in Morello's credentials at all. That much became evident when you held up his earliest professional experience (Guild Wars) as a point in his favor while simultaneously trying to dismiss GC for not having been a game designer since middle school.

This thread, like so many other threads on MMO-Champ, is just people trying to leverage the same gripes they've had since forever by hiding behind somebody else.

[Nikijih]

So basically he has no idea if exclusive content works for a MMO or not since that wasn't his job. But somehow he's qualified to comment on it?



This whole thread is an appeal to authority. There are plenty of threads on this forum discussing the exclusive content topic without trotting out the name of a content designer to legitimize arguments.

You want to use Morello as evidence to back your arguments. And I'm questioning whether he has the standing to contribute any more to the argument than the average forum poster.

You want to present an expert witness, be prepared to have the credibility of your witness questioned.

You are strangely defensive and, Im afraid, dangerously close to being paranoid. Sadly, you seem to operate with the impression that this is somehow someone trying to back their arguments.

Its not. The guy is known, he is popular, and he happens to work in development, so people are interested to know what he thinks. Thats it. You are the one making this a confrontation because somehow you feel attacked by his not agreeing with you. Are you so incapable of articulating a coherent argument refuting his post that the only thing you are capable of doing is attacking the man's curriculum?

We get it, you think that no one but the WoW lead dev is qualified to comment on WoW developpement (because everyone else just dont do quite exactly the same thing or isnt as successful financially), and you refuse obstinatly to actually adress his points. Now that you have made this clear, I shall repeat myself:

Stop this childish ad hominem argument, will you? If you have no comment to make about his ideas and opinions, then you have nothing to bring to this conversation, it really is that simple.

[Mammoon]

You guys really need to quit arguing. Everyone knows there are only 2 people qualified enough to discuss exclusive content in WoW:

1) Ghostcrawler (clearly with his degree, background, and years of experience in MMOs)
2) Every single poster on MMO-Champs.

Some random guy who is the lead content design for one of the most popular and profitable games out there has no clue wtf he is talking about. He really needs to spend some more time listening to us on MMO-Champs who have no degree or experience in the field before he posts any crap like that again. Brb I think my LFR group just killed Lei Shen while I was typing this and I gotta see if I got any loot.

[SamR]

Its not. The guy is known, he is popular, and he happens to work in development, so people are interested to know what he thinks. Thats it. You are the one making this a confrontation because somehow you feel attacked by his not agreeing with you. Are you so incapable of articulating a coherent argument refuting his post that the only thing you are capable of doing is attacking the man's curriculum?

Um, the man's not in this thread. How am I supposed to carry on a discussion with him?

I refute his theory and then posters like you jump in and tell me I'm wrong because I'm not a class balancer for a MOBA?

Do you want to discuss with me exclusive content? Can you discuss with me the advantages and disadvantages of exclusive content without an appeal to authority in the way of "but Morello agrees with me!!!"?

We get it, you think that no one but the WoW lead dev is qualified to comment on WoW developpement (because everyone else just dont do quite exactly the same thing or isnt as successful financially), and you refuse obstinatly to actually adress his points. Now that you have made this clear, I shall repeat myself:

First you create a strawman...

Stop this childish ad hominem argument, will you? If you have no comment to make about his ideas and opinions, then you have nothing to bring to this conversation, it really is that simple.

Then you accuse me of ad hominem...

And all in a thread which is just an appeal to authority.

It's like the logical fallacy grand slam.

[TS26]

A developer for a MOBA game that makes you pay for contents/heroes should not comment on an exclusive content in a SUBSCRIPTION based mmo in which all players pay the same fee.

Also, comparing lol hardcore gamers to Wow's? Really? A game of lol takes 1 hour. Raiding in wow takes 3 hours. More people are willing to play lol competitively since it takes 1 hour than those who are willing to do hardcore raiding in wow.

All of his arguments are plain dumb.

[Valrax]

Very interesting.

[Repefe]

Bottom line is there is a reason why MOBA games are more popular than MMORPGs and on the rise. And the argument that not only Morello presented that LFR while short term a pleasing change can be harmful in the long term seem pretty legit.

Here is the timeline.

1. Between Normal->HC raiding and LFR raiding because of the time constraints players pick LFR.
2. They raid it for a while and realise that it's effortless content with no challenge and the generic purples are not what they used to be thus they get bored fast.
3. Now they can either go back to normal raiding with the downside of having to commit to a schedule just to reach harder content or they can stop playing altogether and move to other games where they don't have to make these compromises.

Now LFR as a concept is not wrong. What is wrong is that there is no progression, by playing LFR you don't get anywhere.

[Vintersol]

You guys really need to quit arguing. Everyone knows there are only 2 people qualified enough to discuss exclusive content in WoW:

1) Ghostcrawler (clearly with his degree, background, and years of experience in MMOs)
2) Every single poster on MMO-Champs.

Some random guy who is the lead content design for one of the most popular and profitable games out there has no clue wtf he is talking about. He really needs to spend some more time listening to us on MMO-Champs who have no degree or experience in the field before he posts any crap like that again. Brb I think my LFR group just killed Lei Shen while I was typing this and I gotta see if I got any loot.

^this

I'm tired of people, that argue in a way, that everyone needs a 5 Star Certificate and a Master Degree in <inser random topic here> to be granted to talk about something.

[Sniperpally]

Bottom line is there is a reason why MOBA games are more popular than MMORPGs and on the rise. And the argument that not only Morello presented that LFR while short term a pleasing change can be harmful in the long term seem pretty legit.

Here is the timeline.

1. Between Normal->HC raiding and LFR raiding because of the time constraints players pick LFR.
2. They raid it for a while and realise that it's effortless content with no challenge and the generic purples are not what they used to be thus they get bored fast.
3. Now they can either go back to normal raiding with the downside of having to commit to a schedule just to reach harder content or they can stop playing altogether and move to other games where they don't have to make these compromises.

Now LFR as a concept is not wrong. What is wrong is that there is no progression, by playing LFR you don't get anywhere.

This is exactly what happened to me, so your analysis is correct in at least one case and probably many more

[Osmeric]

Bottom line is there is a reason why MOBA games are more popular than MMORPGs and on the rise. And the argument that not only Morello presented that LFR while short term a pleasing change can be harmful in the long term seem pretty legit.

Here is the timeline.

1. Between Normal->HC raiding and LFR raiding because of the time constraints players pick LFR.
2. They raid it for a while and realise that it's effortless content with no challenge and the generic purples are not what they used to be thus they get bored fast.
3. Now they can either go back to normal raiding with the downside of having to commit to a schedule just to reach harder content or they can stop playing altogether and move to other games where they don't have to make these compromises.

Now LFR as a concept is not wrong. What is wrong is that there is no progression, by playing LFR you don't get anywhere.

And that's all fine, but making the end game content more exclusive wouldn't help. That's actually what they tried in the first half of Cataclysm, and it sent the game into a tailspin. The people who were excluded by the exclusivity reacted poorly and many walked away.