[5.4 Guide] Fury PVE

[Deleted]

Hiya fellow warriors,

I've been playing around with Simcraft and also done some napkin math - and it seems to me, that in a BiS setup, the rings have changed a bit, forcing us to make alternative solutions.

First point, is the amount of hit we're getting from upgrading Gloves, Belt, Feet and Ring - it's quite impossible to get rid of. One solution could be replacing our boots with the ones from Malkorok, but that creates a similar issue over capping expertise. Another (and more favorable solution) seems to be swapping Sorrowpath with Devilfang Band. The expertise cap is much easier to handle that way around, the hit overcap is gone (increasing overall stat efficiency) and despite Devilfang Band not having crit, because we're already juggling with the crit cap, mastery and crit translate to one another 1:1 as along as you manage to get the magic 48% unbuffed. In addition, we get an ekstra socket!

Second point, is what touched upon when juggling the crit cap and stat efficiency. Since our 2nd ring, Seal of Forgotten Kings, has one inefficient stats (being haste), I was trying to fiddle with the Bloodclaw Band too. Since I'm Worgen, Blacksmith and Skinner, I got abit of elbowroom in order to hit the crit cap, and therefore tried to map out scenarios when the Bloodclaw Band could replace the Seal. I would be back on the overcap on hit (unless trying to successfully implement the Malkorok Boots again), but that hit would come from the haste removed on the Seal. As long as the crit cap is maintained, along with the mastery being max'ed out, this seem to be a good tradeoff.

TL;DR: Has anyone tried changing both rings in a BiS setup (potentially only for a BS/Skinner Worgen)? Maybe even including boots?

Personally I'm still a bit far off of BiS, hence I inquire about any results other players may have in this area.

Brgds,
Falkèn - EU, Sylvanas

[Bizerk]

Think seal + devilfang is bis with rest being the same as before. The selling point of seal is the crit not the haste after all.

[Archimtiros]

Think seal + devilfang is bis with rest being the same as before. The selling point of seal is the crit not the haste after all.

This is the absolute best setup I've come up with, but it does leave you (at fully upgraded bis) at over 8% hit.
That said, difference between rings is miniscule, go with whatever the highest ilvl rings you can get that aren't the Blackfuse one.

[Bizerk]

I'm at 8.46 with bloodclaw right now with devilfang you should drop to 2252 and there must be a way to get 300hit without going that much overcap i imagine.

Edit: I did some trial and error since I don't really know an easier way to do this and finally ended up with a profile that had a ~300dps increase over the baseline on simcraft website with default settings. Ended up with lower exp/hit ratings and an exact 53% crit. Would be cool if anyone can look it over and give some thoughts.

http://pastebin.com/bVR6p1hi

[Archimtiros]

I did all my tests without HWF Tusks because they only manage to drop the one week of the expansion I am on vacation. :mad

Assuming the rest BiS
With Tusks, you'll need Devilfang or be under Expertise.
Without Tusks, Devilfang and Sorrowpath are more or less interchangeable. Sorrowpath will put you well over Hit but give you more Crit; Devilfang will give you more balanced Hit/Exp.

The differences are really minor though, depends on what you can get your hands on.

[Kirbynator]

starting to give up on thok's tail

5 weeks of 25 man and 5 weeks of 10 man with 10 coins used and havent seen it once in heroics.

Sigh.


if HWF skeer's drop is it way better than an upgraded normal thok's tail in ~577 ilvl?

[Deleted]

Thanks for the input so far.

Since the replies aren't really conclusive, I'll do some more testing later on when I have the proper gear on my hands to correctly SIM the different scenarios with absolute certainty. Just for fun, I tried to use Devilfang, Bloodfang and Malkorok Boost in a BiS setup, and came up with the following stats.

7,78 Hit, 7,78 Exp, 48,04% Crit, 2,72% Haste, 65,51% Mastery, 78,6k AP - (these numbers are raid buffed, without Tusks and using 1000 str Flasks rather than Elixir). Seems like a pretty decent setup, although it might not be 100% correct.

[Archimtiros]

You can sim it just fine without having the gear, thats what AMR and SimC are for. I just honestly am not inclined to do it since I dont have HWF Devilfang (but do have sorrowpath) and will never have HWF Tusks, lol.

Elixir is going to be better than Flask though up until you get 53% crit which from my testing was not possible with any combination of gear. I couldn't even get a number under 53 that was close enough for the Flask to be a better option than the Elixir (though to be fair it was only ~200 dps drop).

[Deleted]

EDIT: I did several SIMs where the 1000 str flask yielded more DPS than the elixir, as soon as you hit the 48% unbuffed. By then crit moves below str in value, but should still be assumed equal to mastery in value when deciding upon flask value (since the gems can be swapped back and forth between those two stats). The normalized values only put the 750 crit flask at 930 approx SEP compared to the 1000 str. It's the same reason that Dancing Steel becomes the best enchant again at this gear level.

[CollisionTD]

If you figure out a better bis just post it here, I'll change it.

I didn't check into changing anything that was on there with upgrades, so it's very possible that there are better choices.

[Archimtiros]

EDIT: I did several SIMs where the 1000 str flask yielded more DPS than the elixir, as soon as you hit the 48% unbuffed. By then crit moves below str in value, but should still be assumed equal to mastery in value when deciding upon flask value (since the gems can be swapped back and forth between those two stats). The normalized values only put the 750 crit flask at 930 approx SEP compared to the 1000 str. It's the same reason that Dancing Steel becomes the best enchant again at this gear level.

I wasn't abe to get the same results. For me, Crit was higher up until I hit 53% (fully buffed obviously, no reason to even talk about unbuffed numbers since SimC and AMR both report buffed numbers = confusion). I wasn't able to get but to I think 51% without the crit elixir. I'll have to test again.
Dancing Steel becomes better because the Crit Proc of Windsong puts you well over Crit cap, whereas The elixir only puts me .17% over.

[Deleted]

Yes, I am able to hit the 48% unbuffed, even far off of BiS gear - atm I reach it with the elixir though, but that's with 480 crit gemmed away from crit into mastery (see the chest). Feel free to armory me, "Falkèn - EU Sylvanas"

@Collision: I'll get to you once I have 100% accurate data on the alternate gear setups I'm proposing. I still have a hunch that the Malkorok Stompers could have a place in our BiS, not 100% certain though.

[Archimtiros]

Yes, I am able to hit the 48% unbuffed, even far off of BiS gear - atm I reach it with the elixir though, but that's with 480 crit gemmed away from crit into mastery (see the chest). Feel free to armory me, "Falkèn - EU Sylvanas"

@Collision: I'll get to you once I have 100% accurate data on the alternate gear setups I'm proposing. I still have a hunch that the Malkorok Stompers could have a place in our BiS, not 100% certain though.

Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying you got to 48% without the Crit Elixir.

- - - Updated - - -

Just tested again;

With my gear (sorrowpath + non tusks), every item upgraded, I got 48.92% crit in AMR = 53.17% in SimC with Elixir and 515,464 DPS
-If I remove my cap on crit, I reforge up to 49.46% in AMR, replaced Crit Elixir with Str Flask in SimC and got 52.46% crit and 515,156 DPS

With HWF Tusks and Devilfang, same upgrades, I got to 48.97% in AMR = 53.23% in SimC with Elixir and 518,899 DPS
-Removing my cap on crit does not change my reforging in AMR; replace Elixir with Flask I get 51.98% in SimC and 517,905 DPS

HWF Tusks and Sorrowpath, no crit cap, I get 49.92% in AMR (and 8.24% Hit), replace Elixir with Flask for 52.93% in SimC and 516,934 DPS


To me thats fairly definitive. I could try changing other stuff around; different boots, belts, etc. I am not an Orc so I could try different weapons; but I am 99% certain that HWF Tusks + Devilfang with Crit Elixir is best; followed by closely by Sorrowpath.
I can't find any way that Flask is > Elixir. I just don't think there is enough Crit.

[Deleted]

You might be right - those numbers seem fairly onesided My initial reasoning for posting was to get input from people who had already fiddled around with the numbers on the rings and potentially boots too. But the difference is, that I believe there is enough crit for it to be viable. I have chosen Skinning over Engineering, so that might be the reason.

[Archimtiros]

That could very well be it. What gear list were you using? Me and Collision trying to work it out, you could very well be right that there is a better BiS, though honestly I doubt how much better it will be. My numbers are very close together as is

[Deleted]

OK, so I've tried to SIM this setup: http://i.imgur.com/uJu5feK.png

The result differs from yours, as I only use 200 sec SIMs, as they corrolates to your avg. Juggernaut og Malkorok kill in length. Also, with reforges back and forth, I did find that using elixir yielded more. In addition, this is with 300 mastery food instead of 300 str. The SIM is with 25k illiterations.

536770 DPS.

Try to use the above gear list with same consumables in your SIM length and compare it to the results above.

EDIT: I ran the following (http://i.imgur.com/nzlRjlP.png - the setup you suggested) and got slightly higher: 539172 DPS But that is conditioned by WF Tusks being available, which is VERY unliekly. In conclusion 2,4k dps difference by changing Ring, Boots and Shoulder from one setup to another is not alot - so it really depends on what gear pieces each individual has available.

[Bizerk]

With fallen warchiefs, devilfang and worgen i get 517788 dps. I don't find getting malk boots a good choice at all as well.

Edit: Turns out the profile i uploaded earlier was the wrong one so i had to redo it all again. I use 320crit x3 in tusks so it doesn't change other reforges compared to warchiefs apart from switching a 320mastery gem to crit.
Here's the updated one http://pastebin.com/XXd76pz2 - 518089 dps orc - in AMR - There's one 320mastery gem in there to not go over 53%.

One problem I seem to have tho is i cant adapt to worgen without getting lower dps.

[Archimtiros]

OK, so I've tried to SIM this setup: http://i.imgur.com/uJu5feK.png

The result differs from yours, as I only use 200 sec SIMs, as they corrolates to your avg. Juggernaut og Malkorok kill in length. Also, with reforges back and forth, I did find that using elixir yielded more. In addition, this is with 300 mastery food instead of 300 str. The SIM is with 25k illiterations.

536770 DPS.

Try to use the above gear list with same consumables in your SIM length and compare it to the results above.

EDIT: I ran the following (http://i.imgur.com/nzlRjlP.png - the setup you suggested) and got slightly higher: 539172 DPS But that is conditioned by WF Tusks being available, which is VERY unliekly. In conclusion 2,4k dps difference by changing Ring, Boots and Shoulder from one setup to another is not alot - so it really depends on what gear pieces each individual has available.

Yeah, your numbers aren't comparable to mine because you are doing different things. 200sec sims compared to my 450sec sims (the standard) will make a big difference on damage.
Mastery food will also be an increase over strength food. I personally refuse to use it (mastery) however as the gain isn't nearly worth the ass pain, and the simcraft standard is str food.

Only way to compare them is if you ran all the sims I did plus your sim and looked at the % damage difference between them, and I did the same thing with your sims in mine.

I wasn't shooting for who could get the highest dps between the two of us though, I was looking to see if there was a way to get higher DPS out Flask over Elixir and that I could not find. I could give it another go with Skinning instead of Engineer but that's the only way possible I think.

End result though, it doesn't make a big bit of difference, the damage difference is very small and predicated on what you have access to.

[Warriorsarri]

I'll try to uppdate the BiS lists for Fury Orc/No Race at some point during this week. I've had a lot on my plate for the past couple of weeks so I've been unable to do so yet.

[Deleted]

End result though, it doesn't make a big bit of difference, the damage difference is very small and predicated on what you have access to.

Aye, this is the conclusion when it comes to BiS - the margin seems to be within 0,3-0,5%, even when swapping 4 items. So availability and luck seems to be the factor here.