What's the point in playing D3 right now?

[BenBos]

There is one small difference. Wow "grind" is like wine. Things that you grind are getting better with time. They gain value every expansion.
People who grinded Hand of A'dal, Black/plagued protodrakes, Black Qiraji Battle Tank, Immortal/Undying, Champion/Conquiror of Ulduar - they'll have it forever. In five, maybe even 10 years they will login into game and people will say "Hey, your char is so cool".

And what is most valuable - is memories. Memories about how you and 24 of your friends defeated epic bosses after hours and days of the extraordinary hard gaming.
I can open my achievements and say "hey, I remember this kill, I was in guild X on server Y and this boss was the most badass fight I ever experienced. Hey, I got my weapon from him, here it is in the bank, still enchanted with oldschool Mangoose enchant".

In d3... you spend thousands of hours clearing the same route over and over and over and over and over again.
Grinding? You never use items that you grind. Everything that you have you bought on AH. And in just 6-8 month you'll sell all the items you have to vendor because new expansion will bring ilvl73 items and your items will become useless.
"- How was your day, diablo3 farmer? - I killed 300 elites today, it's much better than yesterday, when I killed just 250 elites. Memories? I remember the alternative route that I used to run until someone showed me this one."

Obviously you are quite new to d3 if you don't yet understand how unrewarding and useless is grind in d3.
Sooner or later you'll realize that playing AH is 10+ times more rewarding than farming. And after that you'll realize that working in macdonalds and using real life money to buy whatever you want in d3 is even more rewarding than playing ah.
But it's a long way to understanding. Come back in few month and tell us about how rewarding was your daily grind today.

It is funny that just ONE word makes your post trivial and meaningless:

HARDCORE.

Complete different game as it is about survival and resource management within a constantly reset macro economy.

I only know one other game with such a dynamic system of economics and organised grind play and that's EVE ( where you can also loose everything and economies are constantly reset)

Of course D3 is not an MMO, but D3 in hardcore is one Hell of a game.

So your post is rather worthless for people playing with other goals in D3, like survival mode.

Oh yeah btw: everyone of my 5 different deaths is burned in my brain forever. I know exactly where, how and it was 10 times more epic than trivial wiping on whatever WoW boss.

[traen]

It is funny that just ONE word makes your post trivial and meaningless:

HARDCORE.

Pretty poor argument. You can play WoW on "HARDCORE" if you like. I bet it will be extraordinary funny to delete your character every time you die.

In good games with a lot of content you don't have to invent yourself artificial obstacles because you have nothing else to do.

[Resentful]

Pretty poor argument. You can play WoW on "HARDCORE" if you like. I bet it will be extraordinary funny to delete your character every time you die.

In good games with a lot of content you don't have to invent yourself artificial obstacles because you have nothing else to do.

Don't bother to argue with the guy like literally every time you try to counter him the guy randomly says ''PLAY HC'' that's what will make D3 fun in every post to people who say the game is awful.

[Dakara]

There is one small difference. Wow "grind" is like wine. Things that you grind are getting better with time. They gain value every expansion.
People who grinded Hand of A'dal, Black/plagued protodrakes, Black Qiraji Battle Tank, Immortal/Undying, Champion/Conquiror of Ulduar - they'll have it forever. In five, maybe even 10 years they will login into game and people will say "Hey, your char is so cool".

And what is most valuable - is memories. Memories about how you and 24 of your friends defeated epic bosses after hours and days of the extraordinary hard gaming.
I can open my achievements and say "hey, I remember this kill, I was in guild X on server Y and this boss was the most badass fight I ever experienced. Hey, I got my weapon from him, here it is in the bank, still enchanted with oldschool Mangoose enchant".

In d3... you spend thousands of hours clearing the same route over and over and over and over and over again.
Grinding? You never use items that you grind. Everything that you have you bought on AH. And in just 6-8 month you'll sell all the items you have to vendor because new expansion will bring ilvl73 items and your items will become useless.
"- How was your day, diablo3 farmer? - I killed 300 elites today, it's much better than yesterday, when I killed just 250 elites. Memories? I remember the alternative route that I used to run until someone showed me this one."

Obviously you are quite new to d3 if you don't yet understand how unrewarding and useless is grind in d3.
Sooner or later you'll realize that playing AH is 10+ times more rewarding than farming. And after that you'll realize that working in macdonalds and using real life money to buy whatever you want in d3 is even more rewarding than playing ah.
But it's a long way to understanding. Come back in few month and tell us about how rewarding was your daily grind today.

*sigh*

I'm not sure where to begin dissecting this.... think I'll start at the bottom and work backwards.

1.) New to D3? I suppose when you consider how long I played D2 for, D3 is still *new*. But seriously, /epic facepalm. Claiming the "AH is more rewarding than grinding" is the reason all you kids are complaining you have nothing to do in D3.... you bought everything so have nothing to grind! The AH should be used to get over hurdles (i.e. stepping into inferno) or plugging gaps in sets, gearing alts etc... if you drop a few Billion gold (which you bought with real money) on kitting out your main, then yes, all you have to do is grind paragon, and your claim of nothing to do might have some validity... if you were 100 Paragon. But seriously, don't tell me to "come back" after I'm sick of grinding. Diablo is Grinding. Maybe someone (you) bought the wrong game? Good old Anuual pass perhaps...

2.) Grinding for thousands of hours (not quote there yet) for gear you wont use, or will replace and vendor come next expansion.... sounds like every single content patch of every MMO to me. Argument is pretty invalid. All you do in virtually every RPG is grind gear to replace previous gear. Oh hey, and WOW has an AH too. Granted you can't buy everything there, but I'm willing to bet, the same kids who dropped Real Money on D3 to gear up would do exactly the same in WOW if they could. Ergo, that little problem is the players not the games.

3.) You want to talk about "Memories" of defeating challenges with friends... yea, I remember that. It was in Vanilla/TBC/(early)Wrath where everyone wasn't so tied up on "World/Server firsts" and guilds actually lasted. I was in the same guild from Vanilla right up until Wrath, and then, almost overnight, people started guild hopping, "good people" quit the game and it was all downhill from there. Now, I'm a solo player (as I said) and D3 is far more enjoyable and rewarding then WOW Solo (cheaper too).

4.) Achievements? Diablo has those. And guess what? Who the hell cares.... if I log into WOW in 10 years to brag about my Hand'of'Adal title.... seriously, kill me now. If at 40, the only thing I have to be proud about is a 15 year old achievement in a video game, then I must of gotten divorced, fired, broke, kids hate me.... you get the idea.

Bottom line is, these are GAMES we're playing. Play what you enjoy most, and for me, at this point in time, I prefer D3 over WOW. Come 5.4, I'll drop D3 for a month, do a few clears of the new raid, then go back to D3. Unless the next expansion is amazing, that'll be it for me an WOW, and (depending on how the expansion turns out) I'll probably end up playing D3 for 10+ years like I did D2. And no, not consistently. The Diablo games are great to pick up and put down between other titles.

[Neganova]

The point in playing Diablo III is to have fun, just as it's always been, just like it is with any other game.

I suck at D3. I do. I play a Witch Doctor, and I'm shitty at it. I grind on MP 2 and usually die at least twice per elite, unless I'm lucky and get a fairly benign set of affixes.

But I have fun with it. I enjoy the wanton slaughter and destruction, I enjoy blowing up hordes of weak enemies with Zombie Bears, I enjoy seeing limbs go flying and hearing the noises of the stampede.

If you want to play Diablo III - no, if you want to play any game - you need to find a reason to enjoy it. No two persons' reasons will be identical - similar, maybe, but never identical.

If you're not enjoying it, stop wasting your time playing it, and find some other, more enjoyable game.

[Pendulous]

1.) New to D3? I suppose when you consider how long I played D2 for, D3 is still *new*. But seriously, /epic facepalm. Claiming the "AH is more rewarding than grinding" is the reason all you kids are complaining you have nothing to do in D3.... you bought everything so have nothing to grind! The AH should be used to get over hurdles (i.e. stepping into inferno) or plugging gaps in sets, gearing alts etc... if you drop a few Billion gold (which you bought with real money) on kitting out your main, then yes, all you have to do is grind paragon, and your claim of nothing to do might have some validity... if you were 100 Paragon. But seriously, don't tell me to "come back" after I'm sick of grinding. Diablo is Grinding. Maybe someone (you) bought the wrong game? Good old Anuual pass perhaps...

"The AH is more rewarding than farming" is 100% correct right now, and he's not talking about the RMAH. Finding actually good gear is so lottery right now, you're better off playing the AH, selling what little you can find for gold, and BUYING your gear. How many 200k dps people can claim they found all their gear? Approximately zero people. You HAVE to use the AH, whether it's just buying items or more. There's "nothing to do" because, unlike D2, you can go for days and weeks without finding a single item worth hanging on to. Nobody wants to play with no reward. I wouldn't go accusing people of using the RMAH to pump their characters when what I just said is THE main issue in the game right now.

[LTCrystallite]

The game has a ton of potential and it's up to the new lead designer Travis Day and the few replacements. So far, I'm decently impressed, but the content is coming very slow because the game is the lowest of their trifecta.

I play to make gold and test builds out, I found an amazing build for Wiz that feels original for how you have to gear for it and I always get complimented in pub games. Eventually, the expac or new content will be there when I come back every so often and having the money for new gear and content is always good.

[Issalice]

WoW is different to D3 and i'm not talking about just logging into the game every now and then i'm talking about the people who play the game every day i.e the streamers, is there any money to be made from the RMAH anymore or what?

Some streamers make money, its crazy but they do. And some people might enjoy playing like it, I don't get it.

[yuca247]

"The AH is more rewarding than farming" is 100% correct right now, and he's not talking about the RMAH. Finding actually good gear is so lottery right now, you're better off playing the AH, selling what little you can find for gold, and BUYING your gear. How many 200k dps people can claim they found all their gear? Approximately zero people. You HAVE to use the AH, whether it's just buying items or more. There's "nothing to do" because, unlike D2, you can go for days and weeks without finding a single item worth hanging on to. Nobody wants to play with no reward. I wouldn't go accusing people of using the RMAH to pump their characters when what I just said is THE main issue in the game right now.

I do. I like playing and I could care less about the rewards. I just play with self found gear. I don't use the regular AH much less the rmah I just play because I like the gameplay nothing more nothing less. I don't need to do 200k dps to enjoy the game.

[Dakara]

"The AH is more rewarding than farming" is 100% correct right now, and he's not talking about the RMAH. Finding actually good gear is so lottery right now, you're better off playing the AH, selling what little you can find for gold, and BUYING your gear. How many 200k dps people can claim they found all their gear? Approximately zero people. You HAVE to use the AH, whether it's just buying items or more. There's "nothing to do" because, unlike D2, you can go for days and weeks without finding a single item worth hanging on to. Nobody wants to play with no reward. I wouldn't go accusing people of using the RMAH to pump their characters when what I just said is THE main issue in the game right now.

Really. Well if it's more rewarding then farming (to you) then why play the game at all? If you just buy gear instead of grinding it, then there's no purpose in grinding, meaning there's no reason to play the game. You don't HAVE to use the AH, you choose too, just like you don't HAVE to do 200k DPS. D3 has no end, it's a never ending grind, so why on earth are people so keen to try and buy their way to the end? Be it via Gold or RMAH.

Yes, trying to Grind perfect rolls is virtually impossible (or more, statistically improbable), but unless you've already bought your current gear, non-perfect rolls can still be upgrades. Not to mention, if you're at that stage of the game, you obviously don't mind grinding. So even if you decide to buy your gear by grinding gold, you're still grinding and must enjoy it. If not, why are you still here?

Diablo needed an easier way to trade items than it did in D2, and the AH isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just to tempting not to use (because it's reliable). If it didn't exist, the D2 players would still be grinding away and the crybabies would have quit. Unfortunately, the AH does exist, people gravitate to "what's more efficient" and then complain about the inefficiency of the traditional way of playing. Instead of seeing the AH for what it is... a way to trade.

Anyway, my point is, D2 lasted for over a Decade. D3's been out for what, a year? And if you honestly think the Grind in D3 is worse than D2, you obviously didn't play D2 for very long.

[Agent Mercury]

Pretty poor argument. You can play WoW on "HARDCORE" if you like. I bet it will be extraordinary funny to delete your character every time you die.

In good games with a lot of content you don't have to invent yourself artificial obstacles because you have nothing else to do.

Stop touting your opinion as fact. You may not think D3 has a lot of content for a B2P game but it has more hours than a lot of similarly priced games. Also artificial barriers as you so elegantly put it is a huge draw that came from even before D2 so that definitely isn't a fact about it not being there because the game isn't good.

Oh yeah and someone did level a character in WoW "Hardcore". They had a jolly time and it had a lot of people interested. It even started a whole tread and event with blue support...fancy that.

[Neganova]

I do. I like playing and I could care less about the rewards. I just play with self found gear. I don't use the regular AH much less the rmah I just play because I like the gameplay nothing more nothing less. I don't need to do 200k dps to enjoy the game.

I am physically unable to agree with these statements more.

Play games you find enjoyable. If you find yourself having to invent reasons to enjoy it, you're playing the wrong game.

[Dakara]

I am physically unable to agree with these statements more.

Play games you find enjoyable. If you find yourself having to invent reasons to enjoy it, you're playing the wrong game.

How is that inventing a reason to enjoy it?

How about "I don't enjoy D3, but this person obviously does. Each to their own." Is that really so hard?

[Pendulous]

Really. Well if it's more rewarding then farming (to you) then why play the game at all? If you just buy gear instead of grinding it, then there's no purpose in grinding, meaning there's no reason to play the game. You don't HAVE to use the AH, you choose too, just like you don't HAVE to do 200k DPS. D3 has no end, it's a never ending grind, so why on earth are people so keen to try and buy their way to the end? Be it via Gold or RMAH.

Yes, trying to Grind perfect rolls is virtually impossible (or more, statistically improbable), but unless you've already bought your current gear, non-perfect rolls can still be upgrades. Not to mention, if you're at that stage of the game, you obviously don't mind grinding. So even if you decide to buy your gear by grinding gold, you're still grinding and must enjoy it. If not, why are you still here?

Diablo needed an easier way to trade items than it did in D2, and the AH isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just to tempting not to use (because it's reliable). If it didn't exist, the D2 players would still be grinding away and the crybabies would have quit. Unfortunately, the AH does exist, people gravitate to "what's more efficient" and then complain about the inefficiency of the traditional way of playing. Instead of seeing the AH for what it is... a way to trade.

Anyway, my point is, D2 lasted for over a Decade. D3's been out for what, a year? And if you honestly think the Grind in D3 is worse than D2, you obviously didn't play D2 for very long.

First off, you're right. The AH isn't a bad thing. It's actually a good thing, but I've explained my reasoning behind that before.

Second, no, I played Diablo 2 for a long, LONG time. I never felt I wasted a night playing because I couldn't get any items at least worth hanging on to for an alt or whatever.

You can enjoy a game if you want, but a lot, and I'd argue most, players want to be rewarded for their time. Diablo 3 flat out does not reward players for grinding. Paragon levels do nothing, or very little anyway, to improve a character, and even getting pass "fairly decent" as far as gear goes takes up to a billion and more gold. Billions of gold, which you're never going to get.

If you're content playing a game like Diablo 3, never finding upgrades and staying weak, more power to you. But a lot of people are disappointed, because they feel the point of a game like this is to grind out your gear, and trade to get upgrades, so you character gets stronger. It's about making your character better and more efficient. If you want to sit there and farm MP0-1 forever, go nuts, but the basis of the game is getting gear. Gear which you can't really get without spending real money, or getting REALLY REALLY REALLY lucky. Again, no, Diablo 3's grind is MUCH worse than Diablo 2's, and it doesn't take ten years of being released to know that. The devs have already admitted it.

[DeltrusDisc]

Define "cheap". Because I can't upgrade any gear without having a billion gold.

Unofecta good items, or low-low-rolled duofectas.

Then you want actually good items with higher roles, and thus, billion+. :P

[Resentful]

First off, you're right. The AH isn't a bad thing. It's actually a good thing, but I've explained my reasoning behind that before.

Second, no, I played Diablo 2 for a long, LONG time. I never felt I wasted a night playing because I couldn't get any items at least worth hanging on to for an alt or whatever.

You can enjoy a game if you want, but a lot, and I'd argue most, players want to be rewarded for their time. Diablo 3 flat out does not reward players for grinding. Paragon levels do nothing, or very little anyway, to improve a character, and even getting pass "fairly decent" as far as gear goes takes up to a billion and more gold. Billions of gold, which you're never going to get.

If you're content playing a game like Diablo 3, never finding upgrades and staying weak, more power to you. But a lot of people are disappointed, because they feel the point of a game like this is to grind out your gear, and trade to get upgrades, so you character gets stronger. It's about making your character better and more efficient. If you want to sit there and farm MP0-1 forever, go nuts, but the basis of the game is getting gear. Gear which you can't really get without spending real money, or getting REALLY REALLY REALLY lucky. Again, no, Diablo 3's grind is MUCH worse than Diablo 2's, and it doesn't take ten years of being released to know that. The devs have already admitted it.

Fools have no clue how terrible D3's ''grind'' I played D2 24/7 you can have my fucking time and you still won't get shit in D3 unless you flip / manipulate the AH like I did which is actually easy but to those who actually want to find shit? Fuck no maybe once in a blue moon when I played the game I played a lot alright and I do mean A LOT like probably 12-15 hours a day. Level 100 farming MP 8-10 what do I get?

Shit
Shit
Shit
Shit
More shit

It's fucking frustrating hence I left the game and replaced it with dota 2 as my prime game now but that's not the story anyway. No matter how amount of time you put in this game you aren't going to get rewarded and that's that. 99% of this games items are fucking worthless 1.09 seems to have some hope in revamping but that shit isn't coming out til like fucking 2014.

Frustrating to no end

Now to tell you the story of D2? You found a lot of shit shit shit shit more shit but more fucking useful ''Shit'' in D2 then you will ever find in D3 I promise you that.

[Veyne]

You keep asking, and we keep telling you. Fun.

Does something need a "point" to become addicting for some people? Absolutely not. If they're not getting any profit from it, and they're not making any real progress through it, then obviously they're doing it because they fine the time they spend in the game to be fun.

[Dakara]

First off, you're right. The AH isn't a bad thing. It's actually a good thing, but I've explained my reasoning behind that before.

Second, no, I played Diablo 2 for a long, LONG time. I never felt I wasted a night playing because I couldn't get any items at least worth hanging on to for an alt or whatever.

You can enjoy a game if you want, but a lot, and I'd argue most, players want to be rewarded for their time. Diablo 3 flat out does not reward players for grinding. Paragon levels do nothing, or very little anyway, to improve a character, and even getting pass "fairly decent" as far as gear goes takes up to a billion and more gold. Billions of gold, which you're never going to get.

If you're content playing a game like Diablo 3, never finding upgrades and staying weak, more power to you. But a lot of people are disappointed, because they feel the point of a game like this is to grind out your gear, and trade to get upgrades, so you character gets stronger. It's about making your character better and more efficient. If you want to sit there and farm MP0-1 forever, go nuts, but the basis of the game is getting gear. Gear which you can't really get without spending real money, or getting REALLY REALLY REALLY lucky. Again, no, Diablo 3's grind is MUCH worse than Diablo 2's, and it doesn't take ten years of being released to know that. The devs have already admitted it.

But that's the problem. People want to be rewarded for their time, when playing a game. To me, that just screams, "I only enjoy this game when upgrades drop". And given how horribly random the drops are (as we all know), I'd have to circle back to my age old question "Why are you playing?". Even Diablo 2 suffered from horrible RNG, perhaps not as bad, but still, item drops couldn't be your only source of entertainment. I enjoy the hack'n'slash of Diablo. The mindless carnage, I don't care about reward. If I want reward, I'll do something rewarding, and it doesn't involve sitting infront of a computer screen, although I admit, Paragon levels have given me a sense of satisfaction each time I ding.

When it comes down to D2 Vs D3 (grinding wise) I find D3 a lot less painful. But it comes down to what you enjoy, the process or the "rewards". So long as I'm killing mobs more than they kill me, I'm happy. My enjoyment doesn't come from seeing things drop.

[Neganova]

How is that inventing a reason to enjoy it?

How about "I don't enjoy D3, but this person obviously does. Each to their own." Is that really so hard?

That is exactly what I'm saying, and exactly the question I'm asking.

[Dakara]

That is exactly what I'm saying, and exactly the question I'm asking.

My bad, misread what you wrote